Puma Motor in a 26 Inch Wheel at 37V

[knoxie]

Hello

Well I got the Puma running tonight in a 26 Inch wheel at 37V.

Its nice and smooth and much quieter than the BMX motor ( must run them side by side) pulls well much like my USPD and whizzes up to 25mph on the flat.

I haven't got my watts up in-line as it was dark, but I will get in in there and log it, its certainly got good torque and took me up a good grade I would say better than my Trek, I think the transmission on my USPD could do with a little TLC as it has done a lot of miles.

I would be happy swapping the Currie for one of these I must say and I never thought I would say that!! ha ha, if it is as reliable as the Currie then it really is very good indeed.

I will post some pictures of the New bike and motor tomorrow and do a video and run it at 48V and 72V once I have a decent torque arm on it, I may even run it at 90V, we shall see.

The New Bike is the old Lemco Bike!! I took off the Lemco gearbox and motor as I hadn't used it for ages, its a steel frame and is nice and comfy its a bit mickey mouse but then all these cheap bikes are, still its a good test bed and will make a nice summer cruiser.

Right will have pictures tomorrow, Mark has these in stock now and can get them and the controllers off to anyone who wants one, for the money they are very good performers and are a much better option than none geared hub motors if climbing hills and good top speeds are your goal at relatively low voltages.

All the best

Knoxie

 

[knoxie]

Hello

Snapped a couple of pics, was better this morning as it was light, did 24 mph on the flat with no wind, thats pretty good going its a lot quieter than even my USPD, very nice machine to ride as well very comfy.

Here are some pictures, its a little less busy than my other bikes, it helps of course as the battery is in my ruck sack.

Cheers

Knoxie

 

[deecanio]

nice job Knoxie,
might have to get one of them magura's for myself - going to use the standard one for now to see how the kit runs.
The bike looks standard which is great, no hassle from the long arm of the law
the cable from the new bmc looks a little thin and i'm hoping mark explains the phase connections to me eeeeek!!
i'm going for single speed on mine so shouldn't be having any dropout probs hehe.
Oh when you get the torque arm let me know what you think, i think their a little on the puny side and certainly no match for a 72v set up.
Let us know when you've posted some vids - always make for good viewing!!!!


D

 

[knoxie]

Hi mate

yes its nice clean and light rig and does look pretty much standard, I will make my own torque arm for it I think, cant afford to have anything go wrong, it seems ok at 37V but I think it will move some at anything above that.

I will do a little video of it in action be interesting to see how it runs at 48V, got the big boy Lipo to test that with.

Magura throttle is fine, there is a dead spot on them though, which i personally like as it stops you accidentally twisting the throttle on at times, you can slew this out though if you don't like it by using a pot, I believe that Richard Fechter did this on his rig?

Have fun, phase connections are as you see on the photo.

Cheers

Paul

 

[xyster]

Another possible benefit compared to the x5's:

Disc brakes and at least a 3speed freewheel look like they'll both fit within standard 135mm dropouts.

My older x5 is 100mm wide. I could only fit a three-speed freewheel (which is plenty of gears, 9 total, but leaves me without rear brakes).

Exactly how wide is the Puma?

 

[jondoh]

I found this on http://www.thesuperkids.com.

Is this the exact same puma???

 

[deecanio]

john i think thats the puma motor too,im fairly sure i read another thread that confirmed it.
Xyster are you thinking puma upgrade for your current bike or puma based new project? it seems like a winner allround to me - disk on rear with 5sp cassette on 130 dropout? only 8lbs what can compete? - until knoxie ran the bmx at 72v i was going to wait longer but i'm now expecting mine in a couple of days go on you know you want one!!!!!


D

 

[D-Man]

cancel

 

[xyster]

Xyster are you thinking puma upgrade for your current bike or puma based new project? it seems like a winner allround to me - disk on rear with 5sp cassette on 130 dropout? only 8lbs what can compete? - until knoxie ran the bmx at 72v i was going to wait longer but i'm now expecting mine in a couple of days go on you know you want one!!!!!

Hey deecanio (boy that name looks so familiar... )
I'm thinking about using the Puma for a light dirt-bike project. My x5 is basically a road bike, and I'm happy with it as such. But I look forward to designing and assembling a real muddin' machine, so I'm waiting and keeping an eye on your bike!

Until I see objective, replicate-able comparisons, I'm very dubious the 8lb Puma can compete with the 25lb x5 in long-distance high-current environments like riding up a long steep hill, and in overall efficiency. Before springing for one, I'd also like to know how durable those internal nylon gears are over thousands of bump-ilicious miles, and if the hall-effect sensors stay where they're supposed to. I have little doubt, using the same power, the Puma is quicker off the line. It's obviously much lighter.

 

[knoxie]

Hi

Yeah the superkids motor is the same base unit but we mess with ours a little to make it play ball above 48V, also they ship with the std controller which isnt worth a damn really, I wouldnt run one on anything other than a xlyte controller to be honest.

As far as durability goes for the BMC / Puma I dont know is the honest answer all I can say is that the BMX is fine after a lot of very hard thrashing, its about as bad and bumpy and torquey as its going to get and its mint still.

These motors are very light indeed, Mark got the 26 Incher laced with some really heavy weight spokes, the wheel is solid and I doubt we will get any broken spokes, they are like motorbike spokes!!

It is an ideal motor for a lighter off road machine, just as DC is going to make, My Trek is an out and out road machine although I have gone woods riding as you all saw in the videos, however a Puma would be my choice in the woods.

This summer will be the test for me, If they look good and we get some good reports back Mark should be shipping quite a few.

These are a great stealth option as they are almost as quiet as a none geared motor, this motor is the newer version of the one that is in the BMX and is the same as hennings motor from TF except Hennings motor was black.

Cheers

Knoxie

 

[D-Man]

Yeah. Seems a little strange having plastic gears in a motor with all that heat.

 

[knoxie]

Hello D-Man

I have found out from the suppliers that they can offer replacement gears if people need them and also they can make these motors with different ratios if people want.

There are some internal shots of the motor and gears over on the Visforvoltage.net forum that I posted. They use Nylon gears in the transmission of some cars! I wouldn't let that stop you, they should be good for tens of 1000 of miles maybe more.

Its a great motor when you consider all the options, I wouldn't touch the stock controller but that's just me, I know what this can do with an Xlyte controller, its impressive to say the least.

The nice thing about this motor is its so light and performs better than none geared hub motors that I have tried at the same voltage. Oh and free wheels like a normal bike as well, no cogging when freewheeling.

Also this is a lot quieter than the BMX one, they have done something with the windings and the gears so I am told.

Cheers

Knoxie

 

[deecanio]

Hey Xyster,

i can promise you that i will be giving my puma a good bashing in the woods - so we will see how it stands up to some abuse
it should be with me any day now so i'm guessing that i will have my bike built within the next two weeks - will get some pics up this weeknd i hope, tried the other night but they were to big (2 meg).i'll re-do them and get a thread started with my build documented.
The puma was the motor i had been waiting for at 8lbs my bike will only weigh 40 lbs including controller and motor !! - i weigh 140lbs and and 20lbs for the lipo rucksack (both knoxie and i feel the rucksack is a great solution with no mounting hassles for the batts).
I wouldn't be at all surprised if i can catch a little air with the setup but i'm not looking to pull superman seatgrabs just rip through the singletrack at good speed.
Great news on the possible gearing changes also knoxie - i guess that once i'm up and running i would then be thinking at a drop in speed for an increase in torque.touching 40mph off road is too fast if you ask me 25-30 would be fine so if i can improve my torque by losing some top end that's where i would want to be.
I will need some help Xyster to give you the technical specs you are after maybe knoxie can provide them for a 26" as to be honest when the chat gets technical i'm totally lost lol.That said we will see if a complete noob can build using off the shelf parts something that really does fly !!!
Puma's rock!!!!!!


D

 

[knoxie]

Hi

Doug sent Mark some of his torque arms, they are spot on and should be more than capable of holding the motor, I didnt have a pipe clamp to hold it to the rear stay, I will think of something better soon.

The main arm is laser cut from 3mm stainless steel and is a snug fit, this wont go anywhere in a 26 inch wheel.

Hmm id love one of those laser cutters!!

watch out for my next video coming soon, all strapped in and ready to ride.

Cheers

Knoxie

Heres some torque arm pics

 

[deecanio]

they don't look too bad mate - maybe i underestimated how much good they'd be just because 3mm seemed to thin to me?
would i need one both sides for alu frame with 20" wheel?
will be watching these tests closely knoxie - see what you think of them at higher voltage - at least your rear wheel drive this time!!!

D

 

[fechter]

I think somebody finally got the torque arm right! That looks great.
If you're worried about the thickness, you could stack a bunch of them. It looks like there's plenty of thread left on that axle.

Imagine the hub locked to the axle and you started pulling the rear wheel backwards so the bike starts to do a wheelie. Then add the weight of a rider. Imagine the amount of stress on the axle and the torque arm.

If the torque arm is good enough, then the axle itself will be the weakest part.

 

[Lessss]

Speaking of torque arms couple bike from luyuan apparently don't use them anymore

 

[knoxie]

Hi Richard

Thanks yeah I think Doug has done a good job, I think on the 20 Inch wheel I would run 2 of them on the same side, I need to find a better stay for the rear triangle as the pipe clamp may not be man enough, I have looked about at pipe clips and all sorts, I will throw that one open to anyone who can suggest something suitable.

Will see what it does when I run it at 72V

Cheers

Knoxie

 

[joystix2]

Has anyone else bought one of these kits from http://www.thesuperkids.com or any other retailer with a review or a side by side performance comparison against the Phoenix kit? I was all ready going to purchase a Phoenix kit until my brother showed me this motor setup. What would this motor do on a 26" rim at 48v? Thanks

Ric

 

[xyster]

Hey Ric,
I've been waiting and watching for a side-by-side comparison too. Nothing yet. I've been gathering performance stats for my 5304 (the cruiser) at ~72V and 35 amps, and pestering knoxie to post objective performance figures for his Puma at the same power so we can compare.

 

[knoxie]

Hey Pesterman!! ha ha

I will as soon as it stops snowing!!!! he he patience my son all will be revealed!! he he, new helmet cam will make for a smoother ride as well.

Will do a GPS run with the 48V Lipo Pack on my back, just in the name of science.

Cheers

P

 

[joystix2]

Knoxie, I'm sure you have a snow shovel in the garage. Just dig out a quarter mile stretch in front of the house and have at it.

Or maybe overnight the bike over to us here in the US and we'll do the test. We'll return it, really... :wink:

Ric

 

[knoxie]

Hi

Ha ha yes ok ok he he I will do it, I can run silly Lipo voltages in excess of 100V If I want to now!! ha ha I may do that just to see how far I can push it, I have a good motorcycle set of leathers and a full face helmet!! ha ha

You can see the snow in front of my house on the new video here

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=8137594005476674734

 

[recumbent]

Has anyone else bought one of these kits from http://www.thesuperkids.com or any other retailer.
Ric

Back from the dead I phoned http://www.superkids.com and they said they no longer have these hub motors in stock and don't know if they will later.

:? makes one wonder why there are no distributers in north America for these things, very strange indeed.

I know that my Heinzmann geared motor was a little too noisy for comfort in the streets & bike trails, but nice and torquey

 

[fechter]

Knoxie, I'm sure you have a snow shovel in the garage. Just dig out a quarter mile stretch in front of the house and have at it.

Or maybe overnight the bike over to us here in the US and we'll do the test. We'll return it, really... :wink:

Ric

Oh yes, send it over here. It never snows here. I can 'supervise' joystix to make sure he gives it a proper test.