Ran stop sign. What would you do?

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10 kW
Joined
Aug 20, 2009
Messages
592
Location
Knoxville, Tennessee, USA
I have thought of myself as a pretty conservative bike rider; I never run a red light (well, sometimes a "Pasadena Pause" in a right-on-red situatoin, but only if there are no cars or cameras ;) at the light), signal turns, etc. However, I do frequently run two stop signs coming out of my neighborhood. One is a four-way all-stop inside the subdivision. It is stupid really. The speed limit in the neighborhood is 25 mph. Most people don't come to a full stop in cars, but I usually do slow way down. When I get to that stop sign on my bike, I am headed down a 15% grade. I look and if it is totally clear, I blow through it. About 100 yds further down the hill is a stop sign for a "tee" intersection. There is a hill that tops close to the intersection coming across the top of the tee, while I am coming up the vertical part of the "tee". If I stop, which I sometimes do, I often just start out, taking a left, as a car comes over the hill. It looks to the driver like I pulled out in front of him. Get a lot of nasty looks and horns there. After taking the left at the "tee", I am on that stretch for about 200 or so yards. The road is very narrow with no shoulders, a shear drop into a ditch. It is very busy. I try to get off that road as quick as possible. Anyway, today, like many days, I am coming downhill to the "tee", see that it is clear, and blow through at about 20 mph, taking a left. A car coming about 30 yards behind me stops at the light and starts yelling something. I glance back and catch that he is cussing me for running the sign.

I am usually a pretty conservative driver and rider, but any way you cut it, it is not a very safe intersection for bikes. Probably the safest thing however is to come to a complete stop just so you don't miss a car that is going to T-bone you. Anyway, I'm not the safest guy in the world I guess. It really annoyed me that the guy took the time to cuss me, when I am reasonably sure he would just watch if 100 cars did a rolling right turn there. Also, who made him the traffic cop? The only one I'd kill is myself, so what the heck does he care? On the other hand, laws are laws and I was clearly in the wrong there.

So to be clear, if the intersection is an upright "T", I was headed "north" up the leg doing downhill braking to about 20 mph before shooting out of the subdivision, taking a left. It did not feel unsafe, but it was quite illegal. I can partially justify it based on the fact that cars coming over another hill through the straight run of the "tee" often run right up on me before they see me. But I think overall it is probably safer to stop all the time.

So the question isn't what is legal (obviously, what I did was not legal and I could be ticketed for it) but what would you do and why?
 
I stop at the signs when others would see me. You want road rights, you should play by the rules that gave you the road rights.

Middle of nowhere, nobody to see, I'll roll through a stop sign when I can see it's clear. I can't see, stop and listen.

Main thing is, with a motor, you aren't penalized for stopping like when just pedaling. So stopping won't bust your chops so much.

Your T intesection sounds like a bitch, with bad visibility. No chance of another route?
 
Personally I find that drivers are most angry at me when I'm moving and they are not, or if they are somehow inconvenienced by my presence (e.g., they have to east that power steering slightly to the left and change lanes because I'm in the right lane).

What they say depends on their knowledge of the law (e.g., the idiots who yell "get on the sidewalk" even though that's both illegal and dangerous) and/or whether or not I've committed an infraction. Not too long ago I was buzzed by a douche in a BMW. I was in the right lane of a three westbound lanes. I caught up to him 100 yards down the road at the light, him in the left turn lane. I pulled up next to him - he knew I was there but kept his eyes front and window up. So I took his picture. Then I walked the bike in front of his car and took a pic of the plate. At this point I'm about into the intersection, so I looked both ways and took the left turn he was waiting at (which is not my usual route, but it was the safest way to go).

Well, Mister Beemer found his backbone. Window goes down and he delled something about a red light. I yelled back something about vehicular homicide.

It's the Fundamental Attribution Error. People are very good at telling themselves their behavior is justified, while others' behavior is not.
 
I do a complete stop at red lights and stop signs, but I sometimes start on the red light as if it was only a stop sign, if there is no one coming. On leg power, I didn't like doing a complete stop and would often run a stop sign.
 
Most of us in Bay area overrun the stop sign or red light when the intersection is quiet (No sign of vehicles around). Last weekend, I went San Francisco and I was just followed many cyclist include lyca cyclist overrun the red light and stop sign. There were several police didn't stop us at all.

Seriously, I usually stop at sign or red light at the intersection 90% most of time. Think yourself safety sake comes first!
 
You need a more powerful ebike, so there's never a need to blow through a stop sign at 20mph and never inconvenience motorists.
 
It's according to the situation for me. Night commuting I roll through most red lights and stop signs when there's no traffic. But there's some lights that have horrible visibility, those I slow or stop even when it's green.

During the day I stop at all red lights regardless of if there is no traffic visible and only roll through stop signs when it's completely clear.

Gary
 
Ever since I started using regen, I slow down to 5-10 at stop signs in neighborhoods, near a dead stop anywhere populated. Then its just the hassle of twisting the throttle back WOT.

I always stop at red lights.
 
I follow all traffic laws, bike or car. I just got tired of tickets and fines. I don't even go past the speed limit in a car. Haven't had a ticket in about eighteen years.
 
I can't know when a law, sign, or light will be enforced and when it won't, so I assume they will always be enforced and ride in obeyance of them. Saves me the hassle of dealing with those that enforce them, and consequences of that. :)

I still have to deal with the annoyance/etc. of those that *don't* obey them, or don't want to, and figure I'm not going to either, and thus don't always stop behind me (sometimes stopping anyway, sometimes going around, once actually hitting me, but fortunately was a cyclist so it didnt' hurt me or my bike).
 
In my town the traffic laws are strictly enforced. We have an outstanding police force. In fact, it's extremely rare when I drive to work and don't see a cop. I hardly ever see anyone drive beyond the speed limit unless it's a non local. They always get popped. This town is tight.
 
The only times I contemplate running red or stop sign is if there is absolutely nobody around. And I mean nobody! Even if I have plenty of space between the intersection and approaching vehicles running a stop in view of some stupid driver could cause them to over react and perhaps send their vehicle out of control.

Now, if it's very desolate and I've slowed enough to stop and there's no other traffic or pedestrians within sight then yes, I will roll through. Yes. I'm still breaking the law but as I've learned here in NYC (and only NYC) as long as you're extremely careful and demonstrating keen awareness of all traffic, cops will often wave you through red intersections.
 
NYC is getting better. In places where they've put thought into it and built up the infrastructure, there are traffic lights specifically for bikes. The bike traffic light might go green while the one for cars is still red. It's all integrated with painted lines, signage, pedestrian crossing signals, etc.

Other cities need to catch up. Where I ride, there are several intersections that can benefit all users, if only they invested the time and money to do what NYC has done. "T" shaped intersections where the bike lane goes across the very top of the T - no need for bikes to stop. Intersections where there's a full 20 second pedestrian cycle - bikes should be allowed to 'proceed with caution', etc. Conversely, strict adherence to stop lights will shorten a cyclists life. One recent example - light turns green, I go straight and the motorist goes right. This was nothing but impatience and bullying, he definitely saw me (looked him right in the eye at the red while we were both stopped). His blinker was not on, I assumed we were both going straight. Had I simply proceeded when the light was red/intersection empty, I would have avoided a near miss and near heart attack.

My overall point is, USA has built roads to be automobile specific for the last 40 years. The pavement, paint and traffic management devices are all designed around cars. Until that changes, I'll use my discretion as to which traffic management control is actually making me safer and which puts me at risk.
 
"I assumed he was going straight too" HOOOOONK, wrong. Always assume you will be right crossed. This one had nothing to do with how you were interpereting the light and everything to to with your mistake of assuming a car would do anything that did not endanger you.

I take the lane at all stop signs and lights now, then turn and eyball the guy behind me in case I need to scoot to avoid being hit.

Running the light would have been one way of getting out of that tight spot, but not really the right way. Why should cars give a scofflaw a break? You piss off that car driver, and guess who is going to pass you in about 100 yards? Unless you are a real scofflaw, riding an unregistered uninsured illegal homemade lightweight motorcycle with pedals. Then you don't get passed.

I think it's better to just get in line for the light like a regular vehicle would. Cars hate it when you pass them all by, then leap in front of them when the light turns green. So you gain a few seconds, but you just gave birth to another car driving bike hater.
 
So the question isn't what is legal (obviously, what I did was not legal and I could be ticketed for it) but what would you do and why?

I would have hit the throttle and pursued the guy who yelled abuse, then pulled up next to him and kicked the shit out of his car. If he is dumb enough to get out of the car, it's on like Donkey Kong, and you want that bitch doing the whole snorting unconscious fit thing with the legs twitching. Get his toes curling. You don't stop slamming his melon into the road until you hear the skull on road sound change from a Thud Thud to a nice hollow Tock Tock.

I am serious, I never get pro-actively violent with people, but some c*nt yells or swears at me in traffic (if I have done nothing wrong) and I black out with rage. One time a car filled with four young fit guys all bigger than me (any one of them individually would have beat the shit out of me) screamed abuse at me, and I managed to catch them at the next lights, I pounded on their window with spit flying and chest beating rage, and the little homos stayed stuck fast in their car. People who yell at other people in traffic are oxygen thieves who deserve to appear on theync.com having their heads removed by Zeta drug lords with chainsaws and their face peeled off with pocket knives.
 
dogman said:
I think it's better to just get in line for the light like a regular vehicle would. Cars hate it when you pass them all by, then leap in front of them when the light turns green. So you gain a few seconds, but you just gave birth to another car driving bike hater.

That approach will shorten your life too, but slowly. When those drivers see the green and press the accelerator, the worst-of-the worst exhaust comes out the pipe tight in your face.

I hear what you're saying on the other points. I do the same thing now most of the time. Seen == safe. Also, to mitigate the bad air I've been wearing a workman's respirator many a morning to filter the crap out of the air (I figure I look like a freak already anyway...)

That said, I often pass cars on the right at the light. Mostly when those at the light need a second try at passing a cyclist correctly. Most "get it" by the 3rd or 4th time.
 
I stop at all stop signs, except for a particular one in my neighborhood that is a 3-way stop and there is hardly any traffic. I try to act like a car on my bike. Keep to the right and go with the flow of traffic. In big traffic on major roads I stop in line with the cars at the lights. People might be grumbling at me in their cars but it seems like they respect you on the road more if you act more like a car and obey the same rules.
 
HAHA at phistine!!! I dont mess with cars, I know who has the right of way, and am VERY courtious and safe when interacting with others. especially pedestrians, the only ones out there with higher moral ground than me. I always wave when somebody notices me enough to allow passage etc. but i ignore all LAWS and signs. haaaa :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
 
A friend of mine who is a bicycle delivery guy for dash recently turned me on to this move that sounds silly but it works like the bejesus. If you want to make sure a car let's you have the right of way when you approach do these things

1. Right arm outstretched with palm facing car

2. Make eye contact

3. As soon as you have eye contact place palm over heart

I followed this guy across town and watched it in action. Whether he had the right of way or not or running a red light the car would yield and the driver would have a look of courtesy and kindness. As opposed the the rage and frustration usually seen the faces of cagers inconvenienced by cycles. It was like watching a fvckin wizard man.
 
Philistine said:
... One time a car filled with four young fit guys all bigger than me (any one of them individually would have beat the shit out of me) screamed abuse at me, and ...

I was recently in a nearly identical situation. But I'm pedal only, so catching up to a car is 100% dependent on the traffic light cycle. Wouldn't you know, the punks looped around to taunt, tease, and swerve at me a second time. They also intercepted me later at the top of a side street, wherein I stopped the bike and called 911.

Wouldn't you know, cops will tell you there's nothing they can do to help. Forget the 3' laws, and proper operation of a vehicle, or the fact that cars are the top killer of Americans under age 30 (i.e., the top non-disease killer at any age). So you're on your own out there.

Oh yeah the same cop that didn't know anything about the state's 3' law started to lecture me about what I should do to ride safe (all his advice was bad). Cops in patrol cars know nothing about bicycle safety.
 
Completely situational. I've blown through red lights and stop signs at 25mph. I've also come to complete stop at green lights. It depends on the intersection, traffic, area, etc. Basically I ride like everyone is trying to kill me and I do ok. As far as people yelling, just laugh it off, or yell back something equally offensive back.
 
Philistine said:
So the question isn't what is legal (obviously, what I did was not legal and I could be ticketed for it) but what would you do and why?

I would have hit the throttle and pursued the guy who yelled abuse, then pulled up next to him and kicked the shit out of his car. If he is dumb enough to get out of the car, it's on like Donkey Kong, and you want that bitch doing the whole snorting unconscious fit thing with the legs twitching. Get his toes curling. You don't stop slamming his melon into the road until you hear the skull on road sound change from a Thud Thud to a nice hollow Tock Tock.

I am serious, I never get pro-actively violent with people, but some c*nt yells or swears at me in traffic (if I have done nothing wrong) and I black out with rage. One time a car filled with four young fit guys all bigger than me (any one of them individually would have beat the shit out of me) screamed abuse at me, and I managed to catch them at the next lights, I pounded on their window with spit flying and chest beating rage, and the little homos stayed stuck fast in their car. People who yell at other people in traffic are oxygen thieves who deserve to appear on theync.com having their heads removed by Zeta drug lords with chainsaws and their face peeled off with pocket knives.

:D Guess I'm not the only one that wishes a painful death on these pricks :D
 
My philosophy - safety trumps laws. I do what's safest first, then follow the laws as much as possible. My rule of thumb is the less real interaction with cars, the better:
- At a 4 way stop, I'll barely slow if it keeps me out of the intersection with any other cars.
- Choice of bike trail or bike lane on a road - take the trail (illegal for ebikes here) unless the bike path will be busy with pedestrians.
- At stop lights (going straight), pull to the front if it's safe and the cars are stopped. Take the lane behind the last car in the right-most lane if the light is green (eliminating any chance of a car doing a right turn into me)

I think you get the thought process.

I'm lucky that I haven't had to explain my philosophy to a cop yet. My experience is that any cop that isn't on a bike is clueless about what's safe on a bike.
 
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