Re: avanti D8085 - maybe to be renamed D8-93??

[Ratking]

Ive been pushing 150A trough 35# chain without any noticeable stretch(With two 80-100). Have only about 15 km with pretty hard testing, but should withstand a bit.
I also have problems with finding 210 drive sprockets, so I am trying to get a timing belt solution that is bomb proof with minimized noise. Will stick to 35# until it fails though. That will be shortly I think, since I got new fresh batteries ready for action


Edit:

There are "cheap" solutions for the CC hv160 at ebay too, if you can't get it anywhere else. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Castle-Creations-Phoenix-Ice2-HV-160-ESC-Speed-Control-/390423988996?pt=Radio_Control_Parts_Accessories&hash=item5ae7154b04
That price is hard to beat I think, not that I have a clue what others want, just a guess.

Edit 2:
I am using a 25# chain in my first stage, a 35# chain must then be bomb proof with that motor, my bad

 

[neptronix]

http://www.robotmarketplace.com/products/sprockets_main.html

^-- sprocket heaven

Not sure if it'd be economical for you to order from the USA tho..

 

[sn0wchyld]

Ive been pushing 150A trough 35# chain without any noticeable stretch(With two 80-100). Have only about 15 km with pretty hard testing, but should withstand a bit.
I also have problems with finding 210 drive sprockets, so I am trying to get a timing belt solution that is bomb proof with minimized noise. Will stick to 35# until it fails though. That will be shortly I think, since I got new fresh batteries ready for action


Edit:

There are "cheap" solutions for the CC hv160 at ebay too, if you can't get it anywhere else. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Castle-Creations-Phoenix-Ice2-HV-160-ESC-Speed-Control-/390423988996?pt=Radio_Control_Parts_Accessories&hash=item5ae7154b04
That price is hard to beat I think, not that I have a clue what others want, just a guess.

Edit 2:
I am using a 25# chain in my first stage, a 35# chain must then be bomb proof with that motor, my bad

great find with the ice mate! thats about $100 cheaper than anywhere ive found. I was tossing up between a HK knockoff of the hv160 (http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/...ess_Speed_Controller_OPTO_AUS_Warehouse_.html) or a 9fet lyen with 3077's but this puts the CC's back on the cards.

Where'd you get your drive sprockets for the #25?

http://www.robotmarketplace.com/products/sprockets_main.html

^-- sprocket heaven

Not sure if it'd be economical for you to order from the USA tho..

cheers for the link mate, those guys have some great stuff, but looks like shipping of 1 $12 sprocket to aus though is about $40 ! means I have to order a bunch to make it worth while. Kind of annoying given china and the UK have such small shipping costs for small stuff like this but its the US that has heaps of these kind of parts available.

cant wait to get this puppy running... then I can start work on the norko!

 

[bandaro]

A place I have found good for stuff is www.smallparts.com.au, great variety of stuff, 11 bucks shipping; www.piesau.com.au has a heap of belt stuff and www.minibearing.com.au, very similar to smallparts.

For overseas items/multiple items, these guys are cheap, but I have never used them: www.surpluscentre.com and www.technobotsonline.com

Good luck with the build, keen to see how it is going.

 

[sn0wchyld]

A place I have found good for stuff is http://www.smallparts.com.au, great variety of stuff, 11 bucks shipping; http://www.piesau.com.au has a heap of belt stuff and http://www.minibearing.com.au, very similar to smallparts.

For overseas items/multiple items, these guys are cheap, but I have never used them: http://www.surpluscentre.com and http://www.technobotsonline.com

Good luck with the build, keen to see how it is going.

awsome mate thanks for that, I didn't think to look at smallparts! I looked at em ages ago when I first started with ebikes, trying to find a 90deg gearbox that'd handle ~10-20nm . Looks like they're actually the online distributor for minibearing.com.au... hence the similarity between the sites.

looks like 219's the go for now... a tad cheaper for sprockets and the size of the larger ones makes for easy reductions.

has anyone had much experience with one way bearings? I read somewhere that they're not as good as a freewheel but thought I'd ask... would they be ok if they were on the motor axle? ie only dealing with the ~9nm that the motor will put out rather than upwards of 50 nm further down the line?

also, is 6.35mm pitch cogs the right stuff for 219 chain? or is it 8mm?

 

[Miles]

also, is 6.35mm pitch cogs the right stuff for 219 chain? or is it 8mm?

Neither. You need #219 specific sprockets. #219 is 0.306" (7.8mm) pitch.

 

[gwhy!1]

also, is 6.35mm pitch cogs the right stuff for 219 chain? or is it 8mm?

Neither. You need #219 specific sprockets. #219 is 0.306" (7.77mm) pitch.

the #35 small sprockets 10 and 11t do work ok with 219 chain

edit: I just checked its 8mm sorry thought it was #35

 

[Miles]

That makes sense. I was just about to query the 1.8mm difference in pitch...

 

[sn0wchyld]

damn, this is taking ages. been flat out with uni recently... so ive had little time to spend on the bike. its getting there, just veeerrryy slowly. which is frustrating given my other ebike is in pieces too, so ive nothing to ride right now!

the motor/box is mounted now and running, pretty much all I have to do is mount the batteries and the rest of the electronics and its running! probably going to take me another month or two the way uni's going though.

1st reduction stage

with cover on, had to cut out a small section when I misjudged the depth.

underside view, and some of the foam used to shape the covers/battery cases.

its pretty damn noisy, particularly after using a hub, but will hopefully be able to reduce that by getting the chain alignment just right.

I was pretty pissed off with myself at one point... I was planning on having the motor on the other side of the gearbox, right below the BB. But I stupidly drilled the plate for the motor on backwards... it turned out to be a blessing in disguise, as it turns out it would have been very hard/impossible to fit that close to the pedals... I'm thinking I'll use one or two of the 6374's instead at some point, but for now this mount is done, so ill stick with it till I get something else built that fits better.

 

[spinningmagnets]

I'm thinking I'll use one or two of the 63-74's instead at some point

I think you'll find that the higher kVs and the lighter copper mass inside the 63mm motors will make them a pain to use in this application. I believe the 80mm outrunner motors are the perfect size for this...

 

[sn0wchyld]

I'm thinking I'll use one or two of the 63-74's instead at some point

I think you'll find that the higher kVs and the lighter copper mass inside the 63mm motors will make them a pain to use in this application. I believe the 80mm outrunner motors are the perfect size for this...

gwhy! reports using them with great results, all be it sensored ones... and the kv is no different... 170 still. yea, the copper mass is less, but then, thats why ill have 2 . either that or I'll just use the 2 80100's I've got sitting on my desk as a DD rather than bothering with gears... I do however like the size of the smaller motors, you can fit 2 in almost the same space as a 80 series, and in tighter spaces given their shorter length. but yea, they may end up being too small. time will tell...


and my next project...
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=43143

 

[sn0wchyld]

finally finished the first 2 battery packs, and got both this and my mountainboard running.

The problem is thogh, the controllers suck. They're not the same highly programmable ones like bzhwindtalker's :

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=30490

there the crappy 4 option version ones. so no option to optimise for the larger outrunners!! So I can only set #cells, brake, acceleration, and throttle range! No PWM or timing mode!!! this means heaps of sink loss, and REALLY poor startup. The motors seem to get really hot really fast too, which I think is more to do with the poor controller setup than the motors themselves.

The bike has masses of torque in 1st, but tops out at no more than a running pace - way under the 20km'h I expected. and there is NO chance of taking off from 2nd or higher gears - I need to be topping out in 1st before changing gears or I get instant loss of sink, so that means shifting under power - not good.

all in all, im glad that I got it running, but it is thoroughly disappointing. Atleast the controllers were cheap. I've submitted a claim with HK, to see if they'll do anything. Not going to hold my breath though. such is the risk of dealing with the cheapest source out there...

Now I just need to decide where to go from here - probably a CC160 or I might even try adding sensors and using my old 12fet. I've also got my eye on using one of Johns mini monsters as a mid drive too... Certainly be quieter than this noisy f@#ker . I've also got a couple of hk 150a car esc's in the post, so hopefully they'll behave better on the mountainboard. Having viewed a number of vids of people using the same controller it looks promising... maybe .5sec of chugging for the controllers to get sink as opposed to the 4-10seconds on mine - if it gets sink at all. I just have to hope they haven't molested the settings on these ones too! or else it'll probably be the last controllers I ever buy from HK - Ill have to try modding small infinions or something...

 

[sn0wchyld]

Heres how the bike looks atm... battery cases held on with a bit of velcro till I sort out the driveline/final voltage & capacity etc properly.


the big black heatsink by the BB is actually the controller, belive it or not. I went a bit overboard... the heatsink is about 6x the size of the controller! ah well. live and learn.

 

[sn0wchyld]

well, a new toy arrived today...

it'll require a fair bit of modification yet, both to make it fit on a bike frame and to try and bring down the weight from its 9kg starting point. I'm still undecided what bike to use it with too. The D8 is the most likely candidate at the moment, given the norko is running fine as is - though I'm still tempted to get a better controller for the 8085 motor and atleast get the current configuration running... decisions decisions decisions...

 

[rodgah]

what is it???

do you have any footage of the bike in action?

 

[Whiplash]

That's one of John's motors isn't it?! Badass! Look forward to the build!

 

[epack]

Nice build. Let us know how the gear box holds up.

 

[sn0wchyld]

what is it???

do you have any footage of the bike in action?

sadly no, it'd be dull as batshit anyway... I might pull one of the controllers off my mountainboard (which seem to work really well, FAR better than the SS190-200's) to see how it goes. Might gear it down a tad more to make sure I dont kill the controller (cant really afford anything new at the moment!!)

That's one of John's motors isn't it?! Badass! Look forward to the build!

yupers! im now tossing up whether to mount it to the d8 or do a custom frame. One of the guys in the uni workshop who's a really brilliant welder (and general machinist) is keen as to help which makes it a real posibility over the next year or so...

As a result I've started playing around and teaching myself inventor at uni. Here's some initial concepts, using Johns 93% motor as a mid mount. Its only basic ideas, i'm still figuring out how to use even the basic parts of inventor, much less all the simulations etc it can do! sick program though. This is more of a 'initial thoughts' and getting some practice with inventor...


heaps of space - thats 24s 15ah of hardcase packs in there along with a lyen 18fet and johns motor, of course. There's enough room that I could probably squeeze in 32s 15ah, for some serious power and range!! the main body of the frame is 150mm wide and 200mm tall. so not exactly small...
the motor axles also act as the pivot points for the rear swing arm, making the chain path (and its tension) really easy to build and maintain.


the seat mount you can see is a very basic concept - the idea being to have it being quickly adjustable from normal riding to tucked away for trials type riding with the use of a 2nd strutt (not pictured) and a quick release mechanism to allow for seat height adjustment on the fly.


ignore the rear wheel hitting the swingarm, was messing aroudn trying to get the wheelbase to around 1200mm, currently its at 1250.

Really hoping that I can make it less like a fat ugly pig, though that might be hard if I want to still use atleast 24s 10ah with johns motor inside the frame.



Here's some of my initial plays with inventor, building 2stage reductions for 6374 and 8085 motors, using 219 chain and a freewheel bearing (copper in color) on the input to the 2nd stage to enable use of a 12t sprocket on the 2nd stage output to a 72t on the BB. This means far more reduction (6:1) rather than the usual 16+t freewheel to ~40t chainring, for a total of about 36:1 reduction in a fairly copact bit of kit. It does have some clearence issues with the motor and the frame/2nd stage axle which might cause issues with eddy currents during use.




and the twin 6374's, same idea with the 2 stage reduction, but pairing the two motors together via a separate chain. turns out that its huge - 230mm long!
the motors also have some centrifugal fans ill get printed on the uni's 3d printer attached.