sparks and current draw question

Joined
Mar 7, 2024
Messages
22
Location
illinois
i got 2 48v batteries in series. this equals 96v. when i plug controller in it sparks scary. but controller has no power. i unplug and plug it back really fast a couple of times and the controller works and spins the wheel scary fast. what is causing this? is it gonna burn up something? should i wear a helmet?
 
What are all the parts in your system that connect to the battery rated for?

Are both the BMS in your 48v batteries designed to handle the full charge voltage of both batteries in series? If not, they can be damaged by this, so that they can't protect your cells against overcharge or overdischarge.

That is much higher than 96v. If they are 13s batteries, typical lithium cells, that's 13 x 2 x 4.2v = 109.2v.

If your controller is not designed for at least 120v, it may be damaged by this, if not during connection, then during operation because voltages generated while moving can exceed the battery voltage.

If you're using this controller
then it's unlikely to work correctly in this application.


If you have other parts (DC-DC for lights, etc) they must also be rated at least that high a voltage.


If your motor is designed to run at a specific speed at a specific voltage (most are labelled that way, or sold that way in ads), then it will run proportionally higher at the higher voltage. You can calculate the new speed at full throttle if you have three of those numbers.


The spark can be mitigated with connnectors designed to be anti-spark, or with a precharge setup (there are many posts on both of these if you poke around the forum). You can also do it by always leaving the battery connected, and just turning them off at their BMS, if the BMS has a control input for this.
 
What are all the parts in your system that connect to the battery rated for?

Are both the BMS in your 48v batteries designed to handle the full charge voltage of both batteries in series? If not, they can be damaged by this, so that they can't protect your cells against overcharge or overdischarge.

That is much higher than 96v. If they are 13s batteries, typical lithium cells, that's 13 x 2 x 4.2v = 109.2v.

If your controller is not designed for at least 120v, it may be damaged by this, if not during connection, then during operation because voltages generated while moving can exceed the battery voltage.

If you're using this controller
then it's unlikely to work correctly in this application.


If you have other parts (DC-DC for lights, etc) they must also be rated at least that high a voltage.


If your motor is designed to run at a specific speed at a specific voltage (most are labelled that way, or sold that way in ads), then it will run proportionally higher at the higher voltage. You can calculate the new speed at full throttle if you have three of those numbers.


The spark can be mitigated with connnectors designed to be anti-spark, or with a precharge setup (there are many posts on both of these if you poke around the forum). You can also do it by always leaving the battery connected, and just turning them off at their BMS, if the BMS has a control input for this.
the batteries are XDS4815-BAK. the controller was sold as a 40a 96v. it has to be one of the batteries bms cuz voltmeter reads no volts until i disconnect the pack from controller. it works if i quickly tap the connector a few times instead of plugging it straight in. hub motor is sacrificial at this time cuz i know it was made for 1000w. just wondering why i gotta tap them to keep bms from cutting out.
 

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it has to be one of the batteries bms cuz voltmeter reads no volts until i disconnect the pack from controller. it works if i quickly tap the connector a few times instead of plugging it straight in.
Kinda hard to tell based on your description but could it be an intermittent connection? Bad solder joint? So when you tap it you are jarring it into continuity?

What exactly are you measuring the 0V at? Where are the meter probes on? Which wires?
 
im measuring volts on wire before the controller. it aint a intermittent connection. i just need to know if a bms will cut off do to controller capacitors drawing to much power on first charge?
 
more pics can not find any manufacturer number or info.
 

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There are not many 48V batteries that can be put in series safely. Most will blow up the BMS if it gets shut off. That will either cause an open battery or one that is shorted out so the BMS is bypassed. A shorted out BMS is pretty dangerous, as you have no protection.

This is just how batteries are built. They're not going to put in an expensive BMS into a 48V battery so you can do these things.
 
Image 2, that green wire is not well connected, it looks like it was slightly under-temp I would hit that beast again if I were you.

The only solution I have found for in-rush current is dual circuit connector. first plug has a self-resetting breaker that warms up and increases resistance until it eqaulizes out. then you connect the 2nd port, and discconnect the first (because you are still turning electrons into heat on that one until it is disconnected) It solved the problem but created a bit more process to setting things up. My evenutal plan is to actually set this up wit a connection panel that does all of the above for you. Just have not had to spend the time because everyone I am supplying power units to accepts that it has a process for proper management.
 
There are not many 48V batteries that can be put in series safely. Most will blow up the BMS if it gets shut off. That will either cause an open battery or one that is shorted out so the BMS is bypassed. A shorted out BMS is pretty dangerous, as you have no protection.

This is just how batteries are built. They're not going to put in an expensive BMS into a 48V battery so you can do these things.
that is my worry. however i did just plug this battery in while in series about 4 times. leaving it plugged together a couple seconds each time to check throttle only to discover i was plugging in negative to positive and positive to negative each time. the bms clearly handled that cuz once i fixed the wiring it worked with the tap tap tap method i mentioned.
 
Image 2, that green wire is not well connected, it looks like it was slightly under-temp I would hit that beast again if I were you.

The only solution I have found for in-rush current is dual circuit connector. first plug has a self-resetting breaker that warms up and increases resistance until it eqaulizes out. then you connect the 2nd port, and discconnect the first (because you are still turning electrons into heat on that one until it is disconnected) It solved the problem but created a bit more process to setting things up. My evenutal plan is to actually set this up wit a connection panel that does all of the above for you. Just have not had to spend the time because everyone I am supplying power units to accepts that it has a process for proper management.
turns out that green wire does not to actually work as ebs. so to be clear you experience the need to tap tap tap to plug battery in without it cutting power also?
 
Oh no, I have a few connectors on my bench that look like they have done double time as spot welders. They pop from inrush and when they get a little out of shape I take a small file to them. I am not impressed by electrical sparks, when you see them, they are not going through you. so they are happy things...

I think I may have a permanent camera dot in my left eye though ;😆: yep, man-safety procedure, when plugging in thing that goes pop and sparks, turn your head so your chemically damaged weaker right eye is not exposed.
 
Oh no, I have a few connectors on my bench that look like they have done double time as spot welders. They pop from inrush and when they get a little out of shape I take a small file to them. I am not impressed by electrical sparks, when you see them, they are not going through you. so they are happy things...

I think I may have a permanent camera dot in my left eye though ;😆: yep, man-safety procedure, when plugging in thing that goes pop and sparks, turn your head so your chemically damaged weaker right eye is not exposed.

we on different issues. i aint concerned about the sparks. i am concerned about my battery bms cutting out when i plug it in. i have to tap the wire a few times to get it to give power to my controller. is this normal? it does not cut bms when i plug batteries in as 48v but at 96v i have to tap the wires a few times or bms shuts off when plugged in.
 
I am gonna go with no.. I have never seen an electrical circuit that you had to prime with application of mechanical force...

I mean unless you are trying to wake up the electrons...Tapping it would indicate that there is a poor connection point, and you are causing it to a better angle/whatever to get things connected. Off the top the causes that I would look for would be: Smashed wires (super fine internal copper can be weird about being crushed) bad solder joint, bad internal connectivity on either side of the connection (so not necessarily the connector itself, but more looking at what is going on inside each half of the plug).
 
Google pre-charge resistor. I'm surprised no one has answered this directly. I'm no expert but think it has something to do with the large capacitors in the system that draw huge current until they match the battery voltage. The resistor just slows that down a bit. They self discharge when disconnected then make lightning bolts because they charge so fast.
 
Google pre-charge resistor. I'm surprised no one has answered this directly
That's covered a bit in my reply to him above...second post in the thread. ;)
 
I just liked sounding so important, one of Sparky buddies was out for a visit round xmas and observed that I had minor sparklers on unfolding the POS ::coughs:: Jetson, he pointed out I needed a pre-charge resistor circuit of some sort, and then proceeded to sketch out 4 options on the back of my jewelers log ::mutters:: but turns out, v2 was teh one that did not light on fire when installed and is still working
 
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