GiantEV
100 W
Alex,
What size shrink tube did you use for your 10ga wires in the motor where they go past the axle?
What size shrink tube did you use for your 10ga wires in the motor where they go past the axle?
Stealth Bomber goes Adaptto at 12kW
- Thread starter Allex
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Allex
100 MW
ridethelightning
1 MW
- Joined
- Jul 21, 2013
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this is an obvious question, but is there any risk of the heatshrink in the axle section melting causing phase wire short?
i guesse its no worse than the crappy stock insulation that comes on the original phase wires.
perhaps there is a teflon or other hi-temp heatshrik available out there?
i guesse its no worse than the crappy stock insulation that comes on the original phase wires.
perhaps there is a teflon or other hi-temp heatshrik available out there?
Allex
100 MW
I would say heat shrink is more durable against rubbing compared to teflon. I am actually more confident now with the heat shrink than I was with Teflon that can easily crack at cold temperatures. The insulation starts melting only when you push to much current through the wires, in this case you are probably damaging windings as well. My current 10 AWG cables are probably a bit oversized as they barely get warm at 11 kW. I know that Doctor Bass pushed 20kW through them with his Crystalyte 5403 without problems, so I will probably never see that heat shrink melt.
This being said, as long as you use proper wire dimension for your power output you will be just fine with some heat shrink.
Here is our Legend Luke, doing the very same thing back in 2009
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=14580&hilit=phase+shrink
So Ride, better bulk up with some new wires and tubes before your MXUS 3000 Arrives!
This being said, as long as you use proper wire dimension for your power output you will be just fine with some heat shrink.
Here is our Legend Luke, doing the very same thing back in 2009
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=14580&hilit=phase+shrink
So Ride, better bulk up with some new wires and tubes before your MXUS 3000 Arrives!
ridethelightning
1 MW
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- Jul 21, 2013
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ha ha. mxus arrived yesterday!
nice, but the first thing that struck me was the phase wires were so small. the brass phase connector lugs wouldnt even take 30A by the look of them
ill definately be opening er up at some point soon....
thanks for info re. heatshrink. what you said makes sense, if theres enough copper there the wires should never get that hot.
at some point soon ill probably open the cro too and do exactly what you have with the 10awg silicone, and try to get the tempsens sorted out while im in there.
not sure to try to flash firmware to get the 10k to work, or to chage to the kty81 like creak did.
which temp sensor are you using at the moment?
nice, but the first thing that struck me was the phase wires were so small. the brass phase connector lugs wouldnt even take 30A by the look of them
ill definately be opening er up at some point soon....
thanks for info re. heatshrink. what you said makes sense, if theres enough copper there the wires should never get that hot.
at some point soon ill probably open the cro too and do exactly what you have with the 10awg silicone, and try to get the tempsens sorted out while im in there.
not sure to try to flash firmware to get the 10k to work, or to chage to the kty81 like creak did.
which temp sensor are you using at the moment?
Allex
100 MW
Yup that MXUS has Potential, but as of now, it is not ready to push the claimed 3000Watts.
I use the tempsensor supplied with my adaptto controller.
You could always flash and go back to the older one if you did not like it. Just remember to do a system reset after flash.
I use the tempsensor supplied with my adaptto controller.
You could always flash and go back to the older one if you did not like it. Just remember to do a system reset after flash.
Allex
100 MW
I have been thinking a lot about Air venting for the Hub motor.
After reading the whole thread:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=48753&start=100#p726173
And talking to John in CR about our Angled stator teeth in Crystalyte 54xx series.
Conclusion was that the direction of that angle should determine which side of the motor is the intake.
John in CR:
"Then the spinning air flow inside the motor would be going from bottom to top relative to the part of the stator in the picture causing a natural right to left flow. It's hard enough to get air flowing through the motor, so fighting against what is natural would stuff up what little flow there is. "
So it looks like need to put the Intake holes on the right side as far to the axle as possible and output slots as far to the outer motor shell as possible. This way I will maximize the airflow through the inside of the motor.
See doctorbass picture:
Also did this for the right intake side, still not sure wich pattern to go with. Type One will give me more strength on the side covers and Type 2 will probably let more air in but the structure will not be as strong. Maybe I will need to play with the position and size of holes a bit more...
After reading the whole thread:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=48753&start=100#p726173
And talking to John in CR about our Angled stator teeth in Crystalyte 54xx series.
Conclusion was that the direction of that angle should determine which side of the motor is the intake.
John in CR:
"Then the spinning air flow inside the motor would be going from bottom to top relative to the part of the stator in the picture causing a natural right to left flow. It's hard enough to get air flowing through the motor, so fighting against what is natural would stuff up what little flow there is. "
So it looks like need to put the Intake holes on the right side as far to the axle as possible and output slots as far to the outer motor shell as possible. This way I will maximize the airflow through the inside of the motor.
See doctorbass picture:
Also did this for the right intake side, still not sure wich pattern to go with. Type One will give me more strength on the side covers and Type 2 will probably let more air in but the structure will not be as strong. Maybe I will need to play with the position and size of holes a bit more...
Allex, you should consider using fans if flow through the motor is your priority.
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=56965#p905707
Until my motor died due to an unrelated issue, the fan setup was working great for me. Only drawback was the accumulation of dirt/dust, but you will have this anyway with the venting you pictured.
Cheers
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=56965#p905707
Until my motor died due to an unrelated issue, the fan setup was working great for me. Only drawback was the accumulation of dirt/dust, but you will have this anyway with the venting you pictured.
Cheers
Emmett
10 kW
Ques: How brittle is the cast alum on the hub side covers?
Problem: My rides are almost always limited by motor heat and not battery power. I can limit my Fighter's H4065 power feed from 3700W down to 2500W and delay the heat problem for a lot longer, but that defeats the purpose of the bike for how I use it.
Solution: What I'm thinking, is I drill say two 10mm holes in each side. 2 intake and 2 exhaust. Which would not do much if left like that. Then if the alum is ductile enough, to put an 8mm solid steel rod in each hole and gently and slightly bend the metal to form an air scoope. Plus to use a round file to further assist the flow. And maybe a grinder to ensure stator clearance on the inside.
I imagine a raised scoop of just 3mm. So using the rotation of the hub to pull air through from right to left. Effectively converting the hub covers into fan blades. That is do not add more elec fan motors, when we already have a spinning motor.
I'd expect that a couple of relatively small (10mm) holes each side with subtle raised air scoops, will promote dramatically better air flow and cooling than many larger holes with no assisted pump effect. Perhaps really good cooling when cruising using low power.
It would still be easy to blow clean the motor inside after each ride. Also less structural weakening with fewer and smaller air holes, if done right.
Even if the alum is far to brittle to risk bending 1 or 2mm, then at a minimum, everyone with a vented hub should be using a file to promote air flow through the holes using the forward rotation of the hub.
My follow on question is: Who has an old unwanted Crystalite hub side cover laying around and can do the hole/rod/bend experiment and let the rest of us know?
Problem: My rides are almost always limited by motor heat and not battery power. I can limit my Fighter's H4065 power feed from 3700W down to 2500W and delay the heat problem for a lot longer, but that defeats the purpose of the bike for how I use it.
Solution: What I'm thinking, is I drill say two 10mm holes in each side. 2 intake and 2 exhaust. Which would not do much if left like that. Then if the alum is ductile enough, to put an 8mm solid steel rod in each hole and gently and slightly bend the metal to form an air scoope. Plus to use a round file to further assist the flow. And maybe a grinder to ensure stator clearance on the inside.
I imagine a raised scoop of just 3mm. So using the rotation of the hub to pull air through from right to left. Effectively converting the hub covers into fan blades. That is do not add more elec fan motors, when we already have a spinning motor.
I'd expect that a couple of relatively small (10mm) holes each side with subtle raised air scoops, will promote dramatically better air flow and cooling than many larger holes with no assisted pump effect. Perhaps really good cooling when cruising using low power.
It would still be easy to blow clean the motor inside after each ride. Also less structural weakening with fewer and smaller air holes, if done right.
Even if the alum is far to brittle to risk bending 1 or 2mm, then at a minimum, everyone with a vented hub should be using a file to promote air flow through the holes using the forward rotation of the hub.
My follow on question is: Who has an old unwanted Crystalite hub side cover laying around and can do the hole/rod/bend experiment and let the rest of us know?
wow, what a big motor^^
allex, i also have thought of fan cooling or adding holes in the sidecovers (in combination with fan blades from a radial blower wheel) but every time i think of it, i also think of how i can keep out all the dust and dirt from the motor and have no idea..
that makes me come to the solution: only water cooling is the most effective and durable way to cool a hub.
allex, i also have thought of fan cooling or adding holes in the sidecovers (in combination with fan blades from a radial blower wheel) but every time i think of it, i also think of how i can keep out all the dust and dirt from the motor and have no idea..
that makes me come to the solution: only water cooling is the most effective and durable way to cool a hub.
Allex
100 MW
Ducky, I like the Idea of having a simple and silent bike. This is why I dont like to put more moving parts that make noise, But yes, as you say, this works very good to cool down
Emmet, I would not do this as the Aluminium is very porous and brittle. Especially low quality moulds that comes from chinese motors.
Here is an interesting Post, the fins looks like the ticket for a good Passive cooling.
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=56965&start=50#p949049
Madin I do not think that you need to worry about dust, But water, mud and small stones yes!
The biggest problem is if you use the bike during winter on salty roads, this would kill the motor.
I only ride during summer and never during rain so I think I will be just fine with those holes
Water cooling is another headache to think of like many other active cooling tricks, this goes for me...
Emmet, I would not do this as the Aluminium is very porous and brittle. Especially low quality moulds that comes from chinese motors.
Here is an interesting Post, the fins looks like the ticket for a good Passive cooling.
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=56965&start=50#p949049
Madin I do not think that you need to worry about dust, But water, mud and small stones yes!
The biggest problem is if you use the bike during winter on salty roads, this would kill the motor.
I only ride during summer and never during rain so I think I will be just fine with those holes
Water cooling is another headache to think of like many other active cooling tricks, this goes for me...
Emmett
10 kW
Thanks Allex, I will do a lot more research "natural" air pumping before trying to bend a cast alum side cover to create a subtle blade. If I try it.Allex said:
When modifying the hub cover to function as a gentle rotating fan, I can imagine that simply angling any drilled holes might to assist air flow significantly. The lightest pumping air flow has to be way better than relying on slow air mixing/diffusion.
I'll carefully read the other threads.
Beautiful work on your bike too. Congrats.
Emmett
10 kW
Well, I read many threads on cooling. I was wrong about drilling vent holes at an angle to pump air flow. I know what I need to try now, for my specific needs. No air venting, since that's impractical for decent motor life where I ride. Sealed H4065 hub (with small breather near the sprocket). 120ml of ATF inside, to transfer stator heat more quickly to the external surfaces. super quick easy mod. Maybe I'll carry a small water mist bottle in my back pack. Shall see. Thanks again for telling me about those cooling threads.Emmett said:
Allex
100 MW
But it will be messy.
Se fluid will rush through the axle and bearings
Se fluid will rush through the axle and bearings
Emmett
10 kW
Yeah, maybe. Sprocket lube doesn't worry me. But a slimey brake rotor does! I'll just try it and see. Simple experiment. Also depends on how much fluid I put in there. I'm thinking enough fluid to make a pool down the bottom when stopped, transferring heat to the outside nicely. Then the spinning fluid might not even be enough touch the stator at 40+ km/h. I understand that at mid speeds it'll be sloshing everywhere and the bearing inner faces saturated. The custom Fighter axle does fit very firmly inside the NSK bearing race. I'll just suck it and see. Heat transfer to the outside might be great. High speed drag is a total non-issue for me. I'm doing 15 to 35km/h 90% of the time.
I'm on this already ... This morning I sealed the side covers with a bead of RTV silicone, and I tapped M5 screw plugs into the Stealth hub oil/blow holes, and drilled my 1.5mm breather hole near the sprocket. Now I must do some work, but this afternoon I might have time to test it. I have a very good idea of how early my temp sensor limit kicks in depending on how I ride. So I should be able to tell the difference. Fingers crossed.
I'm on this already ... This morning I sealed the side covers with a bead of RTV silicone, and I tapped M5 screw plugs into the Stealth hub oil/blow holes, and drilled my 1.5mm breather hole near the sprocket. Now I must do some work, but this afternoon I might have time to test it. I have a very good idea of how early my temp sensor limit kicks in depending on how I ride. So I should be able to tell the difference. Fingers crossed.
Allex
100 MW
Nice, let us know how it goes!
Emmett
10 kW
Allex said:
Allex, It worked very well. First test at least.
It took me a while to try oil in my hub, because this week I had an unrelated controller overheating issue. This was before putting any oil in my hub. It turned out to be a bit of corrosion between two FETs or some other short which I cleaned away. Due to water getting in. After cleaning the bike worked normally again. Then I decided to try the hub cooling experiment. As you will see, I was, and still am very happy.
See http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=48753&start=400#p965961
Allex
100 MW
Sounds good!
The Oil is good to keep the temp down on the windings, but this also means that it wall transfer more heat to the outer shell and heat your magnets more than usual So keep an eye on that you dont want to go above 80°C if you only can touch it for 2 seconds this means it is probably around 80.
I handed over my covers for drilling, but not really sure if I still want to do that...
The Oil is good to keep the temp down on the windings, but this also means that it wall transfer more heat to the outer shell and heat your magnets more than usual So keep an eye on that you dont want to go above 80°C if you only can touch it for 2 seconds this means it is probably around 80.
I handed over my covers for drilling, but not really sure if I still want to do that...
i assume you are afraid to get water and dust into the motor. the same reason why i keep my motor closed AND sealed up.Allex said:
like you i also do not ride in rain, but what if you can't avoid it? even on a sunny day there can be puddles on the road you have to ride through, or other things for example if the neighbor washes his car and the street is wet.
If i would cool my motor, it definitely would be with a watercooling system. I think of unsing components from PC water cooling. There are nice radiators in any size, pumps and tubing systems.
the bad thing is a new axle is needed and a smaller bearing (or modification of the sidecover). As far as i know user "linukas" here in ES has built a watercooling system for crystalyte and mxus motors with custom axle. you might ask him how it works and how it performs compared to venting holes etc..
Rix
100 TW
Subscribed
ridethelightning
1 MW
- Joined
- Jul 21, 2013
- Messages
- 2,010
Re. eaton apr 48-3g
i have obtained some and just want some info regarding using this model.
iv tried reading the info on the russian forum about this psu but the translations get very nebulous...
there did seem to be some problems with charging high voltage packs at high current, but i couldnt really understand the detals.
did Andrey ever discuss the use of this psu with you, charging with max-e?
im sure you have a better understanding of what they're saying on the electrotransport forum than i do,as you speak russian
please do tell!
i have obtained some and just want some info regarding using this model.
iv tried reading the info on the russian forum about this psu but the translations get very nebulous...
there did seem to be some problems with charging high voltage packs at high current, but i couldnt really understand the detals.
did Andrey ever discuss the use of this psu with you, charging with max-e?
im sure you have a better understanding of what they're saying on the electrotransport forum than i do,as you speak russian
please do tell!
Allex
100 MW
I have some units on my way to me. I have not worked with Eaton before.
The guys at ET.ru had probably some old Eatons on hands and they maxed it out till it started to smoke
Will try to hook it up when they get here.
The guys at ET.ru had probably some old Eatons on hands and they maxed it out till it started to smoke
Will try to hook it up when they get here.
ridethelightning
1 MW
- Joined
- Jul 21, 2013
- Messages
- 2,010
cheers Allex.
mine arrived today so ill be testing them shortly.
ill let you know how i get on charging my 22s pack with it.
mine arrived today
so ill be testing them shortly.ill let you know how i get on charging my 22s pack with it.
ridethelightning
1 MW
- Joined
- Jul 21, 2013
- Messages
- 2,010
first tests of eaton apr483g-
very quiet compared to the cherokee.
doesnt break a sweat at 1.5kw, charging 22spack.
will test at higher current when iv done a little hooning first
as the pack's full.
will miss that special smoked Moscow flat smell....
very quiet compared to the cherokee.
doesnt break a sweat at 1.5kw, charging 22spack.
will test at higher current when iv done a little hooning first
as the pack's full.
will miss that special smoked Moscow flat smell....
