Steveos Ebike build 2016

[steveo]

Hey Everyone,

I thought i'd share my latest build..

I've held onto to my Hubmonster Hub motor for couple years with the dilemma of either to re-sell it or install the thing on a project. I grabbed this from Johnincr as it was the last one he had, and it has great potential both power & speed wise.

I gave my frame choice a lot of thought, because of the extra cost in the custom arm i had to go with a lower end frame to try compensate. I like using steel because of the ease of welding, and materiel being cheap and strong.

here are some photos on the progress to show everyone. Right now i'm waiting on some controllers to fit to it. But i will push this motor to its limits.

-steveo

 

[snellemin]

pics??? 8)

 

[Doctorbass]

Nice projet steveo.. glad to see you are still building ebikes

Get a Sevcon size 4 and burn that baby!
I have one in stock 100% working if you want to trade or buy it

Or you could go for two!.. I know that Arlo got 81hp out of a single 75-7 zero motor that he splited the strator and feed each with one controller... 840A phase

Doc

 

[steveo]

Nice projet steveo.. glad to see you are still building ebikes

Get a Sevcon size 4 and burn that baby!
I have one in stock 100% working if you want to trade or buy it

Or you could go for two!.. I know that Arlo got 81hp out of a single 75-7 zero motor that he splited the strator and feed each with one controller... 840A phase

Doc

Hey Doc,

I was thinking of riding "like a boss" with 2 14kw adappto with bms!

this is 6 phase motor with dual hall sensors -- so 2 adapptos or 2 infinion controller or 2 sabvotons

or 2 of these i think your talking about - http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sevcon-Gen4-72-80-350-/261970876698?hash=item3cfeae591a:g:2PYAAMXQ2kxSLe3L

-steveo

 

[evolutiongts]

Is the rear brake floating brake?

 

[steveo]

Is the rear brake floating brake?

yes!

 

[macribs]

Sweet - look forward to see what the hubmonster will do with dual adaptto 14 kw. Or those sevcons...
This is gonna be one wild ride.

 

[jansevr]

Badass! Very interested to see how this goes. I have one of johns motors as well And just got the same frame. Would you ever consider making another swingers...I might have to try this in the future

 

[John in CR]

But i will push this motor to its limits.

Looking good Steveo. HubMonster's true limits remain untested, because no one has thrown enough voltage at one. It has so much lower iron core losses than other hubbies that unheard of 2000-3000rpm is possible. Realistically that means running at very high voltage as a mid-drive geared down to sane speeds, or in wheel with a streamlined aero shell for 200kph+.

 

[steveo]

But i will push this motor to its limits.

Looking good Steveo. HubMonster's true limits remain untested, because no one has thrown enough voltage at one. It has so much lower iron core losses than other hubbies that unheard of 2000-3000rpm is possible. Realistically that means running at very high voltage as a mid-drive geared down to sane speeds, or in wheel with a streamlined aero shell for 200kph+.

I'm not interested in lots of voltage.. i'm interested in low voltage with alot of current... more speed will be configured with settings in the adaptto..i can't remember what its called .. i remember reading it somewhere on one of docs threads..

I will run a pair of adapttos if i can manage to configure them with this motor. I know the controllers will run a hub motor fine.. what i'm wondering is have i need to calibrate each motor controller. I think .. i need to attach one controller to one set of phases & halls.. run the calibration in the adapttos settings.. then disconnect this controller.. and connect the slave controller.. and do the same with only that controller connected... then connect both motor controllers to the motor and hope that it will spin up fine.

we will see

the backup plan is a set of infinion controllers..

-steveo

 

[macribs]

The Adaptto should work wonders with the hubmonster. Set one as master the other as slave.
I am sure some of the adaptto owners will be able to guide you along with the setup, look for the adaptto owners thread.

@John in CR What is the kv of hub monster? I am trying to get a grasp of what battery setup would be needed for 2000-3000rpm at the hubmonster.

 

[steveo]

The Adaptto should work wonders with the hubmonster. Set one as master the other as slave.
I am sure some of the adaptto owners will be able to guide you along with the setup, look for the adaptto owners thread.

@John in CR What is the kv of hub monster? I am trying to get a grasp of what battery setup would be needed for 2000-3000rpm at the hubmonster.

i believe its around 18kv

-steveo

 

[John in CR]

The Adaptto should work wonders with the hubmonster. Set one as master the other as slave.
I am sure some of the adaptto owners will be able to guide you along with the setup, look for the adaptto owners thread.

@John in CR What is the kv of hub monster? I am trying to get a grasp of what battery setup would be needed for 2000-3000rpm at the hubmonster.

No master slave stuff unless the slave is only for throttle and ebrakes. It's a 6 phase motor wound as 2 separate 3 phase motors running 15° different with separate timing. Adappto leaves too much untapped potential anyway due to it's low voltage limit, max 20-22s at the current each half of HubMonster can take. If you want to explore the potential of HubMonster's numbers use Miles Motor Comparison spreadsheet. Columns AD and AE allow you to input rpm and torque numbers, and see the power out, heat, and efficiency with which you can back into voltage and current limits. Using my approach to ventilated cooling the numbers get pretty staggering if you can go to high enough voltage. With under $500 worth of controllers we're limited to 120V nominal (32s), but driving my near 200kg all up load geared for well over 100mph I've fed mine with 245A battery side current for over 2 years and have probably the coolest running high powered hubbie there is. At 400A Hillsofvalp had some heat issues pushing a slightly heavier load, but he never installed centrifugal blades. What we really need is controllers that can handle 150 or 200V nominal packs, and then with proper gearing peak input of 50-60kw would be perfectly reasonable.

 

[steveo]

this is one of the unqiue things with the adaptto.. is the speed you can get at 100v with a pair of infinion.. will be the same using a pair of adapttos tweaked to get same speed with only 74v

i will be using a 6p20s battery made of 20c turnigy lipos... so 30ah at 74v nominal.. it should sustain 300amps+ no problem

we will see... im finishing up painting the rear swing arm.. ill reassemble it.. then remount it to the frame with the motor.. and then time to configure the pair of adapttos.. and wire it all in

The Adaptto should work wonders with the hubmonster. Set one as master the other as slave.
I am sure some of the adaptto owners will be able to guide you along with the setup, look for the adaptto owners thread.

@John in CR What is the kv of hub monster? I am trying to get a grasp of what battery setup would be needed for 2000-3000rpm at the hubmonster.

No master slave stuff unless the slave is only for throttle and ebrakes. It's a 6 phase motor wound as 2 separate 3 phase motors running 15° different with separate timing. Adappto leaves too much untapped potential anyway due to it's low voltage limit, max 20-22s at the current each half of HubMonster can take. If you want to explore the potential of HubMonster's numbers use Miles Motor Comparison spreadsheet. Columns AD and AE allow you to input rpm and torque numbers, and see the power out, heat, and efficiency with which you can back into voltage and current limits. Using my approach to ventilated cooling the numbers get pretty staggering if you can go to high enough voltage. With under $500 worth of controllers we're limited to 120V nominal (32s), but driving my near 200kg all up load geared for well over 100mph I've fed mine with 245A battery side current for over 2 years and have probably the coolest running high powered hubbie there is. At 400A Hillsofvalp had some heat issues pushing a slightly heavier load, but he never installed centrifugal blades. What we really need is controllers that can handle 150 or 200V nominal packs, and then with proper gearing peak input of 50-60kw would be perfectly reasonable.

 

[steven.b.watts]

Any idea what kind of acceleration and top speed this absolute beast is going to be capable of?

How much did this build cost you?

 

[steveo]

Any idea what kind of acceleration and top speed this absolute beast is going to be capable of?

How much did this build cost you?

I don't know yet, but it will accelerate very quick.. Johnincr is the best person to ask as he has most experience with this motor.. i know hes done over 100mph with around 120v+... The build cost alot of money .... And i've tried to do alot of the work myself .. the most expensive part is the Adapttos .. and the frame with custom arm.. I've tried to reuse alot of bike parts from my old ebike for now.

-steveo

 

[steveo]

pic of painted rear swing arm ..

i'll post a pic of the original and the new one when i have some time

 

[John in CR]

Looks great Steveo. I've gone a different route and modded my HubMonster to fit 150mm dropouts and use a bicycle disc brake instead. In the process I got it below 14kg, so on the bike I only had to mod the dropouts.

I'm still undecided on the cranks. My buddy has some 1way bearings from car tranny's with a big enough OD to fit instead of a bicycle freewheel, which could never fit without making an adapter that would add width I don't have. Hindsight tells me I should have run the cover side on the right like you're doing to more easily accommodate a single speed freewheel. I'd really like to go with something I've talked about for years, which is an "electronic chain"...ie Use a #25 chain to link the cranks to a tiny motor and lock it's controller to regen when on, so the cranks have a legit function but nothing mechanical to the rear wheel.

 

[steveo]

Looks great Steveo. I've gone a different route and modded my HubMonster to fit 150mm dropouts and use a bicycle disc brake instead. In the process I got it below 14kg, so on the bike I only had to mod the dropouts.

I'm still undecided on the cranks. My buddy has some 1way bearings from car tranny's with a big enough OD to fit instead of a bicycle freewheel, which could never fit without making an adapter that would add width I don't have. Hindsight tells me I should have run the cover side on the right like you're doing to more easily accommodate a single speed freewheel. I'd really like to go with something I've talked about for years, which is an "electronic chain"...ie Use a #25 chain to link the cranks to a tiny motor and lock it's controller to regen when on, so the cranks have a legit function but nothing mechanical to the rear wheel.

Where did you remove 20lbs of material from

My motor with full rim and tire is around 50lbs!

-steveo

 

[John in CR]

No, I got the bare motor down from 15.5kg to just below 14kg. I can't put my fingers on my weight list, but I'm pretty sure my tire plus moto 16" mag rim are right at 6kg, and I could save weight with a different tire and trim a good amount off the rim which is heavier duty than the factory 13". I don't worry about weight though, just demonstrating what's possible with the motor. On my SuperV with HubMonster a significant portion of my battery was on the swingarm too without ill effects since I stick to pretty smooth roads. I really only look at weight from the standpoint of power-to-weight, though for offroad it's silly to me to run any hubmotor in-wheel.

I hope to wrap up my controller mods tomorrow (space saving and combining 2 onto 1 long heat sink), and then it's down to wiring and assembly for some test runs before deciding how to go for a kick stand, final paint, lighting, and "electronic chain". I'm most interested to see how the tweaks to my ventilation approach play out.

When we gonna see yours up and running? You'll be the first person other than myself to put one on an ebike instead of a escooter or emoto. I've been waiting for 3 years for someone of normal weight to use one as an ebike motor. You're gonna have a blast.

 

[steveo]

No, I got the bare motor down from 15.5kg to just below 14kg. I can't put my fingers on my weight list, but I'm pretty sure my tire plus moto 16" mag rim are right at 6kg, and I could save weight with a different tire and trim a good amount off the rim which is heavier duty than the factory 13". I don't worry about weight though, just demonstrating what's possible with the motor. On my SuperV with HubMonster a significant portion of my battery was on the swingarm too without ill effects since I stick to pretty smooth roads. I really only look at weight from the standpoint of power-to-weight, though for offroad it's silly to me to run any hubmotor in-wheel.

I hope to wrap up my controller mods tomorrow (space saving and combining 2 onto 1 long heat sink), and then it's down to wiring and assembly for some test runs before deciding how to go for a kick stand, final paint, lighting, and "electronic chain". I'm most interested to see how the tweaks to my ventilation approach play out.

When we gonna see yours up and running? You'll be the first person other than myself to put one on an ebike instead of a escooter or emoto. I've been waiting for 3 years for someone of normal weight to use one as an ebike motor. You're gonna have a blast.

i'm waiting on some silicone wiring to come in from hk to be able to complete some of the wiring.. at the same time.. i'm waiting for the weather to get warmer so i can spend some time to assemble it in my garage.. as well as get over being sick atm..

I'm hoping to start sooner then later.. i'll keep this thread updated

-steveo

 

[steveo]

Johnincr

do you know what model temp sensor is used in the hubmonster motor?

thanks
-steveo

 

[Ohbse]

Nice work Steveo!

I it's a temperature switch rather than a sensor as standard. Probably a good idea to replace if you're intending on pushing it hard.

 

[John in CR]

Nice work Steveo!

I it's a temperature switch rather than a sensor as standard. Probably a good idea to replace if you're intending on pushing it hard.

Correct. The factory uses it to shut their controller off if the motor gets hot. Just pop the side cover off, glue a thermistor on the stator and use the thermal switch wires for your thermistor. I always suggest installing a distance from the copper, like the factory does with their thermal switch, so you get a truer overall motor temp without the short temp spikes that often lead people to incorrect conclusions when they glue the thermistor up in the copper.

 

[steveo]

Nice work Steveo!

I it's a temperature switch rather than a sensor as standard. Probably a good idea to replace if you're intending on pushing it hard.

Correct. The factory uses it to shut their controller off if the motor gets hot. Just pop the side cover off, glue a thermistor on the stator and use the thermal switch wires for your thermistor. I always suggest installing a distance from the copper, like the factory does with their thermal switch, so you get a truer overall motor temp without the short temp spikes that often lead people to incorrect conclusions when they glue the thermistor up in the copper.

Thanks for the info!

I'm sorting out the wiring for the Adapttos currently, and i'm wondering which set of phase wires goes with which set of hall sensors?

There is 2 sets of hall sensor; one with a little green piece of shrink wrap; and the other does not.

then the phases of course... yellow/green/blue & Red/Black/White

-steveo