SUITABLE FULL SUSPENSION FRAMES?

[Gordo]

All good possibilities. I will watch the used bike sources more carefully. So far what I have found is people who paid $500-$1000 for a rim brake bike 10 years ago, think it is still worth $250-$750. Now, like the CCM which is $450 except for the one week sale of $160, these older models have been upgraded with disk brakes and better shifters and come on sale, one after another, all year long.
The wally world/canuk tire weekly specials, are equally worth watching.
Thanks for the info.

 

[GCinDC]

Who cares about 1 foot of rear suspension travel?

I do, fwiw.

*subscribed*

 

[GCinDC]

05 rocky mountain switch SL - Frame Price: $100 CAD

 

[NeilP]

Merida Mission Comp 2004
Right click or double click the image and open in new tab to get the full pic

 

[dogman dan]

Now there's an interesting frame Niel. One way or the other, they need to get the suspension back out of the triangle, then make the triangle downtube into an S shape enlarging the space as much as wheel clearance allows. Then we can pack in 18s 15 ah in there real nice.

Those vintage specialized look verrrrrry interesting. Nearly had to grab keys and head for albuqueer when I saw that. I love my specialized FSR, but it's the year they were Y frames.


Re Kingfish. I guess I misunderstood again, I got the idea you found a way to carry 18 bricks of lipo completetly inside the frame. Or maybe got 6 into the frame and the other 12 followed the pattern lengthwise. Anyway, I was picturing lipos crosswise, and thinking woah, bowlegged pedaling for sure.

On my dirt bike, I do end up pedaling a tiny bit bowlegged. Mostly though, that bike don't get pedaled. It's just as wide as a crosswise lipo though. Both boxes and the frame in the middle measures a full 7" . But its set very high and forward, so feet and legs clear easily behind it. I just have to point the knees out since they just barely don't clear the corners of the box.

What I have in mind for the perfect ebike frame has pretty much been done, Stealth bomber, or greyborg, and maybe some others. But it would be nice to see some more sophisticated, dirt motorcycle style rear suspension somehow. Or at least something similar to the modern FSR's. Like that frame Niel showed us.

 

[auraslip]

auraslip wrote:Who cares about 1 foot of rear suspension travel?


I do, fwiw.

I just can't imagine taking an ebike with a hub motor on trails that would require a large travel suspension. But I see the desire for sure. my opinion is that I'd rather have a decent suspension and tons of room for batteries vs. an awesome suspension and a tiny space for batteries.

Then we can pack in 18s 15 ah in there real nice.

Gotta dream bigger! At least 2kwh! 18s20ah is what the black bike in my sig can carry, but it doesn't have rear suspension.



There is a seller with these salsa calbero frames on ebay. Looks decent. It doesn't have so much of that compact geometry like most MTN. bikes.
With one of those extremely wide bottom brackets you could easily extend the battery box all the way down to the BB, and that'd give a lot more room for batteries. Of course around 6" wide is where a box gets a bit uncomfortable for pedaling.




This KHS soft tail 700c cyclocross bike is drool worthy. It'd make an awesome lower speed bike with a geared motor. It's on ebay now too.

 

[Kingfish]

Re Kingfish. I guess I misunderstood again, I got the idea you found a way to carry 18 bricks of lipo completetly inside the frame. Or maybe got 6 into the frame and the other 12 followed the pattern lengthwise. Anyway, I was picturing lipos crosswise, and thinking woah, bowlegged pedaling for sure.

Bowlegged pedaling: Yes – definitely a concern; I didn’t want to do that either! :wink: :lol:

The 9/side fit inside the triangle except at the very front which is why that brick all the way forward is turned sideways. When draped over the top-tube, the batteries hang partly out, but then the edges of the bag has grommets on two sides so I can lash the halves together, pulling the sides in towards the center. The width of the bag near the front of the bike is 5.8-inches at the top and 6.5-inches at the bottom, however this distance becomes less towards the seat tube: At the point where the crank is directly pointing vertical (up) the width is only 4.5-inches which is narrower than the inside distance measured between the pedals. And since the sides of the bag are covered in HDPE which is self-lubricating (soapy-slick) it’s not a problem and I really don’t touch there except when I am wearing the baggy winter trousers during nasty storms. The only place I was actually touching anything was that my knees were slightly brushing the H-D tool bag (the tanning ink rubbed off and made my knees look bruised or blackened as seen in that group shot at SF) and the back part of my shoes occasionally hit against the panniers. If I remade the battery bag from scratch, I could make it thinner still, but what I have works and I didn’t have time to improve it before I had to leave.

All the best, KF

 

[Gordo]

One way or the other, they need to get the suspension back out of the triangle, then make the triangle downtube into an S shape enlarging the space as much as wheel clearance allows. Then we can pack in 18s 15 ah in there real nice.

Those vintage specialized look verrrrrry interesting. Nearly had to grab keys and head for albuqueer when I saw that. I love my specialized FSR, but it's the year they were Y frames.

What I have in mind for the perfect ebike frame has pretty much been done, Stealth bomber, or greyborg, and maybe some others. But it would be nice to see some more sophisticated, dirt motorcycle style rear suspension somehow. Or at least something similar to the modern FSR's. Like that frame Niel showed us.

I decided on an "S" SHAPED tube and called a buddy to get my hydraulic bender back. I was going to fill the tube with sand and weld caps on the ends before bending. We decided the dies on the bender will still flatten the tube, so started talking about building proper dies. Too much time for a one off, so we disguarded the idea. I go round and round and keep coming back to TIMMA's build. Box the frame from the steering head back and be done with it. I've got the materieals and tools necessary to cut and build it, just not the "get off the couch and getter' done. I need to connect my 72V controller to my ears and turn the throttle.

 

[dogman dan]

That really is a nice battery carry Kingfish. Soft, yet well protected. I just keep building hard boxes, because I go over the bars out in the dirt and ding em pretty good.

Here is a crude sketch that shows what I think would be nice.

The idea would be to somehow square off the pointy end of the triangle to tall enough to fit a lipo standing up, and have an inch to tuck wires into as they connect to a harness. The box would be formed by two top tubes and two bottom tubes, 4" width total. Once you attach side panels, the entire box would be no more than 4.25 wide, and hold up to 20s 20 ah.

An engineer would have to figure out how to make the shock mechanisim work, but mounted above the top bar, instead of below it. The top bar would actually be kind of low at the seatpost, so there'd be room, plus space to put a cover to prevent pinched crotch.

The top of the box would make a great dasboard for the CA , etc.
Goes without saying that the rear would be designed to accept some hefty pinch dropouts.

 

[Kingfish]

That really is a nice battery carry Kingfish. Soft, yet well protected. I just keep building hard boxes, because I go over the bars out in the dirt and ding em pretty good.

Here is a crude sketch that shows what I think would be nice.

The idea would be to somehow square off the pointy end of the triangle to tall enough to fit a lipo standing up, and have an inch to tuck wires into as they connect to a harness. The box would be formed by two top tubes and two bottom tubes, 4" width total. Once you attach side panels, the entire box would be no more than 4.25 wide, and hold up to 20s 20 ah.

An engineer would have to figure out how to make the shock mechanisim work, but mounted above the top bar, instead of below it. The top bar would actually be kind of low at the seatpost, so there'd be room, plus space to put a cover to prevent pinched crotch.

The top of the box would make a great dasboard for the CA , etc.
Goes without saying that the rear would be designed to accept some hefty pinch dropouts.

That would be pretty tricked out! In addition, it would be great if the top-tube was a partly-open channel or box-tube, and then run the cabling down the center of that – like a cable tray: functional, structural, protected.

~KF

 

[AussieJester]

Your gonna love the frame Timma did for Rodgah DoGMaN, looks ridiculous IMO made to fit heap of lipo as he's running a frock, if I remember when I get to PC I'll pay a pics of it for u, complete with 4 link su..suspension..

KiM

 

[dogman dan]

There definitely is some nice things coming out of various peoples custom shops. It blows my mind how little coming out of the design boys that show prototypes at interbike. It's like they just haven't made that leap, that mo power means you need a way to effectivly carry mo battery.

In a way, EV global got it right, the frame was two tubes on the bottom to support some slas. We just want that, with a taller box to fit 6" of lipo standing up, and an inch for the wiring to be inside and safe. Then fit a good suspension, not just a simple single pivot like the stealth. Once you have ridden good multiple pivot rear suspension, you want it on everything. Just need it done so it doesn't fill up that battery area. Maybe just lenghten the wheelbase enough to put the shock vertical behind the seat tube? Like have a seat tube, then a plate attached to the rear that supports the pivots for the shock?

Even more crudely sketched, but the idea is the same proven 4 bar suspension link, just shoved behind the seat tube instead of in front of it. We want slightly longer wheel base anyway half the time for higher speeds, even in dirt.



Really, not that great a leap from the same suspension set up as the 95 FSR in the pic shown a page back. But located a bit different so the whole assembly can be longer travel and beefier shock. After all, you want to pack a big battery to go fast.

Long as we are fantasizing, the rear shock mount could also support the rear rack, or long seat if you want to go motocycle style seat. Really, it's just the bomber frame with a better rear shock.

 

[Gordo]

Your gonna love the frame Timma did for Rodgah DoGMaN, looks ridiculous IMO made to fit heap of lipo as he's running a frock, if I remember when I get to PC I'll pay a pics of it for u, complete with 4 link su..suspension..

KiM

Please do. SOON!

 

[GCinDC]

german(?) cyclecraft csp, from here:

 

[dogman dan]

Bingo! knew there had to be a way to do the rocker arm, but mount the shock behind the seat. Even looks half decent for bolting torque plates to the rear drops.

 

[hurricaniac]

The Iron Horse Maverick 4.0 or 4.5 has room for 15ah of 48v Lipo inside the triangle and an additional 5ah could go on top of the top tube:

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=235&start=465

The frame is plenty beefy; nice fat section alloy tubes and good handling at 35mph. The stock rear suspension is definitely pogo-stick quality, so upgrading to Fox, etc is highly recommended. Used on Craigslist, these bikes go for $200.

-Bruce

 

[dogman dan]

That was nicely done. If the shock must be in the triangle, towards the crank seems best. More room up near the head tube would make all the difference though, so you could stack two packs up there, with 4" of space. Then you just might get one more squeezed in there.

Here's the Iorn horse batt box

Bottom line, a really big pack is just always a problem to fit. 700wh or so seems to carry well many ways. But 1500wh is where it gets to be really tough. Be nice to be able to carry 8 6s packs in the frame, and still have easy to remove them and such. Even that is still only about 800wh. Any less than 20 mile range at 25 mph is just a toy bike to me, I just live in the burbs so nothing is close.

 

[Gordo]

That was nicely done. If the shock must be in the triangle, towards the crank seems best. More room up near the head tube would make all the difference though, so you could stack two packs up there, with 4" of space. Then you just might get one more squeezed in there.

Here's the Iorn horse batt boxView attachment 1

Bottom line, a really big pack is just always a problem to fit. 700wh or so seems to carry well many ways. But 1500wh is where it gets to be really tough. Be nice to be able to carry 8 6s packs in the frame, and still have easy to remove them and such. Even that is still only about 800wh. Any less than 20 mile range at 25 mph is just a toy bike to me, I just live in the burbs so nothing is close.

That is a very neat installation.
My order from Canadian Tire went POOF They are a very deceptive company. I chased them until I found that of 25 stores within 100 miles of me, only 2 listed the CCM Torrent in stock, but even these two did not exist. "Computer error." Just the normal false advertising we have learned to expect from all the Big Box Stores. When I dug some more, I found the last delivery to my local store was March 2010 and the last of those, sold on July 10, 2010. To try and make me happy, they sold me ONE CCM Apex, at the very low price of $239. I had a choice between that and a CCM Decent.


This Apex seems to give the most space of the CCM bikes, in the triangle, by having the shock low down?
I will still cut and modify the used Torrent I bought, as I might loose the Apex to my non-electric wife.
"OOOH, suspension, I like that." :lol:

 

[veloman]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1990s-GT-RTS-1-Mountain-Bike-20-Aluminum-Full-Suspension-Frame-/320768217859?pt=Mountain_Bikes&hash=item4aaf469303

The best design I"ve seen so far. You could easily bolt your battery case in that triangle securely.

There's a guy with one of these near me, but I'm hesitant since it's so old.


A Maverick:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/MAVERICK-ML7-Large-FOX-4-Travel-Palomino-EASTON-FRAME-Light-All-Mountain-Frame-/180733755889?pt=Mountain_Bikes&hash=item2a149241f1

 

[GCinDC]

kind of a unicorn, not my taste (and asking for trouble) :lol: : the GT STS DS 1000

 

[dogman dan]

Interesting, but the common theme is still always a pretty small front triangle even if there is no shocks in there. As shocks get taller, you keep lowering the top bar so you can still stand over it.

Of course, if you really want to carry a lot of batteries and still want full suspension, you could do this.

Not exactly a trail bike, but it is pretty happy on washboard dirt roads with the full suspension. Definietly can carry a few lipos.

 

[GCinDC]

Love the dual kick stands! :lol:

 

[docnjoj]

Hey dogman!
That is some pretty woodwork on that bike. Enjoy!
otherDoc

 

[GCinDC]

30 min left on ebay auction: 10' Scott Genius Ten // Large LRG Full Suspension Carbon 26" Mountain Bike Frame

 

[GCinDC]

interesting design. wonder what happened to it... lots more (old) DH bike images here