Sur Ron/Luna XX "Ludicrous" mod

Maybe shunting the controller and battery? I'm new to all of this and don't understand any of it. Luna did say that the stock battery can't be used with the XX controller, so they must have shunted the battery as well?
I just got an XX and I'm loving it, but I'm curious what's different in case I need a second battery at some point.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kjQT7CpUh-M&list=PLCK7ceSmEyJgcUtzJ9cPhjrZ2JkyHWXKG&index=158&ab_channel=stepusak
 
The old mod for bypassing the legal restrictions is the green wire in the connector https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ld_y116G4uY might not be what your looking for if its another mod, then they would have their own controller or hacked stock controller. Differences could be voltages, bms or discharge in the battery or controller differences.
 
calab said:
The old mod for bypassing the legal restrictions is the green wire in the connector https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ld_y116G4uY might not be what your looking for if its another mod, then they would have their own controller or hacked stock controller. Differences could be voltages, bms or discharge in the battery or controller differences.

The XX model uses the stock X controller but definitely hacked, either through programming magic or hardware mods.
According to Luna their controller mod is too much for the stock battery, so they did something there as well, also the battery range doesn't seem to differ from stock despite double the torque.
Also, the stock gauge lags on the XX which is a symptom of shunting from what I've gathered.
With lots of digging my best/uneducated guess is shunting of both controller and BMS...which would make sense why Luna has only released 100 of the XX units per year, as it's way too much labor to make it mass-producible on their end while keeping the blessing of their stock supplier, Sur Ron.
Regardless, the XX is absolutely outstanding for the additional $400. Seems equivalent to dropping well over $2000 extra on a new controller and custom battery, without all the learning curve and headaches it'd involve for someone like me who just wants to turn the key and not mess with programming.
Somebody should figure out what Luna does to the XX because it's a sweet spot of a bike. Bummer they can't mass produce them.
 
The Sur-ron X controller does not have shunts. It uses hall effect current sensors. The XX mod changes the sensitivity of the current sensors, so essentially the same result as a shunt mod. This also increases the regen amount. The stock battery can't handle the increased current, so there must be some battery mod as well. On mine, I have a second battery in parallel with the stock battery to supply the extra amps.

My mod thread below:
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=101441

It's a little out of date as I'm running the XX controller now. I've hammered it pretty hard and it hasn't failed yet. Mine will peak around 180A.
 
fechter said:
The Sur-ron X controller does not have shunts. It uses hall effect current sensors. The XX mod changes the sensitivity of the current sensors, so essentially the same result as a shunt mod. This also increases the regen amount. The stock battery can't handle the increased current, so there must be some battery mod as well. On mine, I have a second battery in parallel with the stock battery to supply the extra amps.

My mod thread below:
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=101441

It's a little out of date as I'm running the XX controller now. I've hammered it pretty hard and it hasn't failed yet. Mine will peak around 180A.
you shunted XX controler ? or classic X controller as me but to 180A ?
I think luna have a modified firmware for controller, so its X controller only with different FW - they increased only battery amps and phase amps is same as X controller ? Battery must be shunted - i see some posts about shutting down bike at 40% SOC etc. - this is sign of bypassed current sensing of BMS. BMS then cant count coulombs and calculate remaining SOC, so its estimates SOC only from battery voltage after a while. BMS shuts down for undervoltage, and after some time display will show 0%...
 
Mine is the original XX prototype with modified current sensors. Since I run two parallel batteries, the stock battery SOC meter still works normally. If there is a way to do the mod by changing the firmware, it would be a lot easier to do, but I don't know if this is possible or not.
 
Hi, so luna do the mod by offseting/ lowering amp sensitivity ? so when you have 180 battery amps then you have 860+ phase amps ? If ratio of batt/phase amps is same (defined by FW) - i have 125 battery and about 600phase and its impossible to give it a full throttle - its going whelee or take off with drifting :D i cannot imagine more phase amps - it will be unusefull :D
 
I noticed that Holmes's XX was built from a leftover 2018 bike by the serial number (digit 6 and 7)
Seems like a creative way to move the old stock, what year is your frame?
 
How much of a discount in price would that be 25%?

X-Nitro said:
I noticed that Holmes's XX was built from a leftover 2018 bike by the serial number (digit 6 and 7)
Seems like a creative way to move the old stock, what year is your frame?
 
X-Nitro said:
I noticed that Holmes's XX was built from a leftover 2018 bike by the serial number (digit 6 and 7)
Seems like a creative way to move the old stock, what year is your frame?

Just checked, mine is a 2021 XX, purchased November '21.
It has the updated seat, brakes, etc., so I don't think they're using old stock on anyone unless they swap in the updated parts.
 
That's good, thanks
My mistake, John's bike is ludicrous "R" limited edition. :oops:
The new china bikes introduced are so much better than the lightbee,.. now they need make more xx just to try to stay relevant & keep up with all the cool new bikes.
 
fechter said:
The Sur-ron X controller does not have shunts. It uses hall effect current sensors. The XX mod changes the sensitivity of the current sensors, so essentially the same result as a shunt mod. This also increases the regen amount. The stock battery can't handle the increased current, so there must be some battery mod as well. On mine, I have a second battery in parallel with the stock battery to supply the extra amps.

My mod thread below:
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=101441

It's a little out of date as I'm running the XX controller now. I've hammered it pretty hard and it hasn't failed yet. Mine will peak around 180A.
I'm very curious what the battery mod would have been on the XX. I'm sure they didn't change the batteries but given the XX controller is too much for the stock BMS, they must have modified the BMS without bypassing it.
 
No idea what they are doing now, but in the past I've seen shunt mods for the BMS to prevent tripping. This won't keep the cells from overheating though. Before I added the second battery, I was able to overheat the pack and cause shutdown.
 
fechter said:
No idea what they are doing now, but in the past I've seen shunt mods for the BMS to prevent tripping. This won't keep the cells from overheating though. Before I added the second battery, I was able to overheat the pack and cause shutdown.

I see their "engineering department" hasn't changed much in 4 years :mrgreen:
 
I have a 2022 X and found a XX controller for sale, bypassed my stock battery and the bike did not respond.I contacted LUNA as I had just bought the bike and it was there XX part, they said ask someone else. So I went for a BAC4000 instead.
 
So I have a 2022 x Surron and bought a XX controller I did a bms bypass on the battery and it worked I love the power on this more than my bac 4000 I saw someone on here tried the same thing and it didn’t work. Luna says you can’t just do a bms bypass and you have to use there XX battery but i just used the bms bypass kit from Emoto bros and it worked.
 
Note regarding any form of BMS bypass, for any reason:


If you are bypassing the discharge shutoff on a BMS so that it can't prevent BMS or cell damage because it detects either overcurrent or undervoltage, overtemperature, etc., then you risk damaging either the BMS or the cells themselves; either one means your battery is at greater risk of fire than before, because it is unprotected from things that can damage it.

The same applies to charging as well. Depending on the BMS design and the form of bypass performed, bypassing for discharge *also* bypasses for charge, allowing for overcharge and further fire risk increase.
 
Well typical for anyone who runs this controller we know the battery percentage rate is usually incorrect so Luna came out with a mod and you see what your battery voltage is at then just guessing…. So for safety talking to someone that may work there running this controller never leave the battery at fully charged unless you are going to ride it secondly don’t charge the battery right after riding…. Don’t be the guy running your bike hot and charging it hot and controller is just a firmware update but they do not have plans to release the update on the controller because if you run a stock battery it won’t work and if you bypass it you void warranty protection… anyway if you get ahold of this controller run a chi battery 60compact yes more money but if you fry the xx controller you can easily get a stock one and still run the battery or if you upgrade you can still use this battery basically the x260 app was hacked so they could adjust the controller to take a tune far better than any bac 4000
 
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