Throttle sensitivity

[mudflap5]

The throttle on my bike is very sensitive. Riding over small bumps makes for an erratic ride. Posted in the "Wanted" section for a Throttle Tamer, but have not had any response yet. Is there any way to make the throttle a little less sensitive? It seems that the CA3 can do it, but I do not want to buy it if there is a way to do it cheaper. Here is the gear currently used on the bike:

Em3ev 72v 40a controller
Em3ev 3 speed throttle\switch combo
21s 8p 25r battery back
Leak bike 1500w motor laced in a 20" wheel
CA 2.3

Tried using the throttle switch on the "low" or "50%" setting, that only seems to limit the top speed.
Played around with some of the CA, nothing seems to work.
Any ideas?

 

[Simonvtr]

Are you twisting the throttle when you hit those small bumps?
Try letting go of the throttle when you are about to go over those bumps and see if the speed increase.
You can go with a half grip throttle to see if that helps you control the speed better.

When I ride my trike and about to take a sharp turn or hit a speed bump I let go of my throttle until I'm out of the turn or over the bump.
I have a full grip throttle system.

Simon

 

[mudflap5]

Are you twisting the throttle when you hit those small bumps?
Try letting go of the throttle when you are about to go over those bumps and see if the speed increase.
You can go with a half grip throttle to see if that helps you control the speed better.

When I ride my trike and about to take a sharp turn or hit a speed bump I let go of my throttle until I'm out of the turn or over the bump.
I have a full grip throttle system.

Simon

The bumps cause me to twist the throttle a very small amount, and that causes the jerky ride. If the throttle is released, the ride is smooth.
I am using a half twist throttle.

 

[tmho]

Have you tried the throttle tamer from Zombiess ? Some people reported that it is helpful. I also have tried it to solve my sensitive throttle in my GNG kit. But I need a long time in setting it to get satisfactory result.

 

[amberwolf]

The throttle ramp up / down settings in the CA v3 should be able to fix that.

Short of that, you could add a resistor and capacitor in there to cause all voltage changes out of the throttle to be ramped up or down. The values you'd need to either calculate or experiment with, to get it to delay enough to help with the problem but not so much it causes problems trying to accelerate or decelerate normally.

 

[Samd]

You could use an arduino and map the 0 to 5 volt input from the throttle to a lower / smoothed output.

 

[gwhy!1]

or turn down the phase current, that can also help.

i expect ( if you have never programmed the controller then its still has its default over current detection delay set.. turn this down to 0.0s this will also help

 

[mudflap5]

Have you tried the throttle tamer from Zombiess ? Some people reported that it is helpful. I also have tried it to solve my sensitive throttle in my GNG kit. But I need a long time in setting it to get satisfactory result.

It seems like that the throttle tamers are sold out, and no more are being made. Know where I can one?

 

[mudflap5]

The throttle ramp up / down settings in the CA v3 should be able to fix that.

Short of that, you could add a resistor and capacitor in there to cause all voltage changes out of the throttle to be ramped up or down. The values you'd need to either calculate or experiment with, to get it to delay enough to help with the problem but not so much it causes problems trying to accelerate or decelerate normally.

If all else fails, I'll get a CA v3. Guess I can sell the v2.3 to help pay for the v3!

 

[mudflap5]

or turn down the phase current, that can also help.

i expect ( if you have never programmed the controller then its still has its default over current detection delay set.. turn this down to 0.0s this will also help

Connected to the controller last week, but did not change any settings. Will try the phase current setting.

By the way, what does the phase current setting do? Just curious...

 

[DanGT86]

The short answer is the phase current setting controls the current that actually goes out to the motor.

The longer answer is something like this:
The power going into the controller is the product of pack voltage and battery current setting in the controller. The controller distributes this power as changing amounts of voltage and current depending on your speed. So if you have 2000 watts going in (50v X 40 battery amps) and you are at a low speed that only requires 20 volts at the motor, the controller might try to send 100amps phase to the motor. (20volts X 100amps=the original 2000 watts). There are lots of other factors and efficiency losses involved but the above description is an easy way to visualize it.

So at low speeds the phase current setting can make it kinda jerky because the controller is dishing out lots of amps.

Another issue is that your controller uses a speed based throttle. So when you hit a bump that jiggles your throttle hand you are basically telling the controller that it owes you a few more mph instantly. The controller will throw the maximum amount of amps at the motor to get to the speed it thinks you want. The speed based control becomes an issue on higher power bikes. Picture driving a car where you could only use full throttle. You could still stay under the speed limit but it would be jerky unless the motor had low power.

A CA3 would be a great way to tame it. A throttle tamer would as well if you could get one. You could also try to use the CA2.x to do a current bassed throttle. Current or power based throttles are a lot smoother in my experience. With a current based throttle the same amount of throttle twist provides the same current change all the time. With the speed based control it can be inconsistent.

Hope that makes sense.

 

[bowlofsalad]

Tried using the throttle switch on the "low" or "50%" setting, that only seems to limit the top speed.

I think you might want to explore the three speed switch a bit more, it works differently than you may imagine. When you have a switch set so the throttles maximum is 50% throttle, that means that when you twist the throttle half way you are turning it to only 25%, meaning the gradients become much finer for throttle twisting. You could always reprogram each switch setting to be something like 33%, 66% and 100% or something like that.

 

[r3volved]

I used to use a throttle tamer on my gng before I got a CAv3 for it...the CA ultimately achieved the same throttle response as the tamer did.

I am not sure of the settings for the CAv2.3, but on my v3 i did the following (This worked in both pass-thru and current throttle. Note, the CA guide says +-0.2v but I often use +-0.1v):

1. Get your throttle's physical high and low signal. On the diagnostic screen, the CA should show you your throttle in - while at rest, should be somewhere around 0.85v. WOT should be somewhere over 4v...mine is around 4.2v.

2. Set your min throttle in to +0.1v higher than your "at reast" voltage (mine is 1v) and set your max throttle in as -0.1v lower than your throttle max voltage (mine is 4.2v)

3. Set your fault volt to (at least) 0.1v higher than your physical max throttle. In my case, my fault is set to 4.35v.

4. Set your min throttle out to the highest v that DOES NOT SPIN your wheel (mine is 1v...1.2v starts to spin my motor). Set your max throttle out to around 3.5-3.9v.

5. if you're still getting some jerky starts, set your up rate to a lower value...this extends the ramp up time for a smoother, gentler - albeit slower - acceleration.

6. If you're using current throttle, your A Gain will also affect your acceleration. Keep increasing until you get the jitters and then tune back about 30%.

-----
What all this does is to map your physical throttle range with your CA's algorythmic throttle range. All that dead space at the beginning and the end of your throttle range should be eliminated. The ramp and gain will smooth out unwanted throttle jitter on bumps and jumps.

I can't find much info on the v2.3...I suspect there isn't as much flexibility to map the throttle as there is in v3. You could probably also ask Zombiess if he would provide the schematic to make your own tamer...It's too bad he stopped making them, maybe the demand wasn't there anymore with the CAv3...the tamer does work really well and can adjust the physical mapping, ramping and jitter gain.

 

[mudflap5]

The short answer is the phase current setting controls the current that actually goes out to the motor.

The longer answer is something like this:
The power going into the controller is the product of pack voltage and battery current setting in the controller. The controller distributes this power as changing amounts of voltage and current depending on your speed. So if you have 2000 watts going in (50v X 40 battery amps) and you are at a low speed that only requires 20 volts at the motor, the controller might try to send 100amps phase to the motor. (20volts X 100amps=the original 2000 watts). There are lots of other factors and efficiency losses involved but the above description is an easy way to visualize it.

So at low speeds the phase current setting can make it kinda jerky because the controller is dishing out lots of amps.

Another issue is that your controller uses a speed based throttle. So when you hit a bump that jiggles your throttle hand you are basically telling the controller that it owes you a few more mph instantly. The controller will throw the maximum amount of amps at the motor to get to the speed it thinks you want. The speed based control becomes an issue on higher power bikes. Picture driving a car where you could only use full throttle. You could still stay under the speed limit but it would be jerky unless the motor had low power.

A CA3 would be a great way to tame it. A throttle tamer would as well if you could get one. You could also try to use the CA2.x to do a current bassed throttle. Current or power based throttles are a lot smoother in my experience. With a current based throttle the same amount of throttle twist provides the same current change all the time. With the speed based control it can be inconsistent.

Hope that makes sense.

Makes perfect sense. Good explanation.

 

[mudflap5]

Tried using the throttle switch on the "low" or "50%" setting, that only seems to limit the top speed.

I think you might want to explore the three speed switch a bit more, it works differently than you may imagine. When you have a switch set so the throttles maximum is 50% throttle, that means that when you twist the throttle half way you are turning it to only 25%, meaning the gradients become much finer for throttle twisting. You could always reprogram each switch setting to be something like 33%, 66% and 100% or something like that.

Set it at 30% and it seems to help a little but, limits the top speed to about 22mph. At 60% top speed is fine, but it is unstable over bumps.

 

[mudflap5]

I used to use a throttle tamer on my gng before I got a CAv3 for it...the CA ultimately achieved the same throttle response as the tamer did.

I am not sure of the settings for the CAv2.3, but on my v3 i did the following (This worked in both pass-thru and current throttle. Note, the CA guide says +-0.2v but I often use +-0.1v):

1. Get your throttle's physical high and low signal. On the diagnostic screen, the CA should show you your throttle in - while at rest, should be somewhere around 0.85v. WOT should be somewhere over 4v...mine is around 4.2v.

2. Set your min throttle in to +0.1v higher than your "at reast" voltage (mine is 1v) and set your max throttle in as -0.1v lower than your throttle max voltage (mine is 4.2v)

3. Set your fault volt to (at least) 0.1v higher than your physical max throttle. In my case, my fault is set to 4.35v.

4. Set your min throttle out to the highest v that DOES NOT SPIN your wheel (mine is 1v...1.2v starts to spin my motor). Set your max throttle out to around 3.5-3.9v.

5. if you're still getting some jerky starts, set your up rate to a lower value...this extends the ramp up time for a smoother, gentler - albeit slower - acceleration.

6. If you're using current throttle, your A Gain will also affect your acceleration. Keep increasing until you get the jitters and then tune back about 30%.

-----
What all this does is to map your physical throttle range with your CA's algorythmic throttle range. All that dead space at the beginning and the end of your throttle range should be eliminated. The ramp and gain will smooth out unwanted throttle jitter on bumps and jumps.

I can't find much info on the v2.3...I suspect there isn't as much flexibility to map the throttle as there is in v3. You could probably also ask Zombiess if he would provide the schematic to make your own tamer...It's too bad he stopped making them, maybe the demand wasn't there anymore with the CAv3...the tamer does work really well and can adjust the physical mapping, ramping and jitter gain.

Looks like the CAv3 will be the solution unless I can find a used Throttle Tamer.

 

[tmho]

Have you tried the throttle tamer from Zombiess ? Some people reported that it is helpful. I also have tried it to solve my sensitive throttle in my GNG kit. But I need a long time in setting it to get satisfactory result.

It seems like that the throttle tamers are sold out, and no more are being made. Know where I can one?

If Zombiess is not selling it anymore, then try to post on the "Item Wanted". Good luck!

 

[gwhy!1]

you dont what to turn down the phase current down to 0 the bike will not move .. most recommend a phase current limit of around 2.5 ratio to battery current , but depending on motor and what type of response you want this may be to high ( or maybe even to low ) first I would go with around 1.5 ratio to battery current and see how that does ( it dont cost anything to try ) . But also there is a setting that allows the current phase and battery to do what it likes for a pre-set time .. I think default is around 0.3s I would also recommend turning this down to 0.0s , not only is it safer for your controller but it will also stop a lot of jitter at low throttle positions.

 

[mudflap5]

you dont what to turn down the phase current down to 0 the bike will not move .. most recommend a phase current limit of around 2.5 ratio to battery current , but depending on motor and what type of response you want this may be to high ( or maybe even to low ) first I would go with around 1.5 ratio to battery current and see how that does ( it dont cost anything to try ) . But also there is a setting that allows the current phase and battery to do what it likes for a pre-set time .. I think default is around 0.3s I would also recommend turning this down to 0.0s , not only is it safer for your controller but it will also stop a lot of jitter at low throttle positions.

Tried different phase current settings and it seemed to slow down the ramp up speed. It did help the sensitivity a little bit, but I could not find a setting that would allow good acceleration and minimal sensitivity. Found a Throttle Tamer, should be here next week. I'll give that a try.

 

[mudflap5]

Have you tried the throttle tamer from Zombiess ? Some people reported that it is helpful. I also have tried it to solve my sensitive throttle in my GNG kit. But I need a long time in setting it to get satisfactory result.

It seems like that the throttle tamers are sold out, and no more are being made. Know where I can one?

If Zombiess is not selling it anymore, then try to post on the "Item Wanted". Good luck!

Posted there last week and found one yesterday.