Toyota Develops Prototype Battery

[o00scorpion00o]

http://electric-vehicles-cars-bikes.blogspot.com/2011/10/toyota-developing-ev-battery-with-five.html




Toyota, in cooperation with the Tokyo Institute of Technology and the High Energy Accelerator Research Organization, has developed a prototype battery that can be processed into sheet form. The battery has up to five times the energy storage capacity of existing Li-ion batteries, the Nikkei reported Monday.

Since the battery can easily be processed into sheet form, it can store several times the amount of electricity, volume for volume, than the current generation of electric vehicle batteries, according to the developers. This added capacity may extend the maximum driving distance per charge for compact EVs to around 1,000 km [621 miles] from the 200km or so for existing vehicles.

Currently, Li-ion batteries with high energy and power densities used organic liquid electrolytes; these, however, require relatively stringent safety precautions, making large-scale systems more complicated and expensive. The use of solid electrolytes—which would address many of those issues associated with the liquid electrolytes—is currently limited by their conductivities.

Toyota and its partners earlier this year published a paper in the journal Nature describing the development of a lithium superionic conductor Li10GeP2S12 that has a new three-dimensional framework structure. The new material exhibits an extremely high lithium ionic conductivity at room temperature, the highest conductivity achieved in a solid electrolyte, exceeding even those of liquid organic electrolytes.

The new solid-state battery electrolyte has many advantages in terms of device fabrication, stability, safety and excellent electrochemical properties.

Toyota plans to improve the battery and commercialize it sometime in 2015 to 2020.

Japan’s New Energy and Industrial Technology Development Organization predicted it will be possible to cut the battery production cost to one-fifth to one-tenth the current level by 2020.

EV News have reported on Toyota developing everything from a magnesium battery that holds twice the energy of lithium-ion cells to a Solid state lithium cobalt battery.

Jeffrey Makarewicz, the engineer managing the U.S. projects, said in an interview at the North American International Auto Show in Detroit the automaker’s U.S. unit, based in Torrance, California, is also looking at aluminum and calcium as potential battery materials. In Japan, company engineers are researching “lithium air and metal air” batteries, he said, without elaborating.

 

[o00scorpion00o]

Isn't it always the same old story where the perfect battery is always 10 years away, like fusion is always 20 years away and at the end of the 20 years it's another 20 years!


I'm betting that hydrogen cars will Be much cheaper by then anyway and the world will have switched to Thorium and use l.f.t.r reactors and all our energy needs could be met by Thorium!

 

[dnmun]

bad bet.

the world is now entering a new regime of exploiting energy resources which were not even considered possible 5 years ago until george mitchell was able to show that using horizontal drilling and multistage hydraulic fracturing to allow natural gas to be released from the source rock on such a scale that we now think there is as much energy in the natural gas which will be recovered world wide as there is crude oil now remaining in all the known and unknown reservoirs and source rock also.

the ICE will continue to provide the source of power for the transport fleet for another 200 years at least. the cost will never be lower than it was three weeks ago on october 4th. the meetings this weekend of the european finance ministers to force the recapitalization of the french banks to withstand the coming bankruptcy of greece has put a floor under the price of crude and we are now on the way back up to the $110 level over the next few months.

as the price climbs over the next decade, it will draw even more world wide drillers to exploit this resource in entirely new areas around the world, including europe and china which do not currently have large resource potential to exploit, except the north sea and the barents sea in russia.

because of the poor(criminal) management of the fukashima plant in japan and subsequent world wide rejection of nuclear energy as an option for power, the demands on oil and natural gas resources will expand even faster as the huge populations in asia and africa create so much demand that the price will be sufficient to encourage the development of hybrid vehicles using all the engineering solutions we have available now.

this means CNG as the primary source of power, using the direct injection diesel technology already developed by westport and the plug in capability of lithium ion storage cells to provide power for the shorter trips, with EV charging spots becoming as ubiquitous as streetlights to allow drivers to plug in and charge for short periods everywhere they travel. you will have heard of them in old books as 'road houses' in the past where people would stop with their horse and allow it to cool off and drink some water at short intervals during the trip while they had a mug of ale or eat some bread or porridge. this is something most people never think about because the energy density of gasoline allows us to travel thousands of miles a day without really having to stop for more than a few minutes to refuel. as gasoline reaches the $10 level in the US, and $15 in europe, we will see how much of this EV and plug in hybrid technology is mainstreamed, and the cost people will bear to implement it.

hydrogen fuel cells will not be the answer, except for spacecraft.

from all the recent research on lithium storage, it is now clear that the ion transport and C rates can be adjusted by adding different cations to the cathodic mixture to force the eutectic into domains that give very high ion transport rates for certain crystalline orientations of the cathodic material. that's what this news is about.

 

[o00scorpion00o]

Yes faster charging higher capacity batteries will be very welcome, and no one doubts that batteries will be much better in just a few years as the race is on now to make them better, companies realise now the profit to be made in battery development and so there is no stopping the development by oil companies.

But putting bets on the future in 200 years is also not a good idea!

I doubt the ICE will be around in 200 years, by then they will probably have cracked Fusion.

BEV's have the advantage of being more efficient and will reduce our oil consumption and make transport cheaper because they can't tax electricity like they do petrol or diesel. And it takes less energy to charge a battery than make hydrogen.

Hydrogen will be a lot more expensive because companies will have to make it and Governments can apply the same tax as they do to petrol and diesel!

Oil and gas is being extracted in ways it couldn't in the past but it's making it more expensive, sure we need oil not just for transport or electricity generation, but for that we don't have to need it, we are forced to need it by the companies that profit the most from it and it's not until there is more profit to be had in the next source of energy that we will then see it being made available!

There is absolutely no doubt that the earth will never run out of energy, we will have enough energy to see man until the end of time, that is until the sun dies in 5 Billion ish years!

Thorium has superb benefits, why is India building thorium reactors? though sadly they are not building or developing L.F.T.R with it's safety advantages and waste advantages! Even China are thinking of Thorium and even Japan has admitted it sees no other way of generating it's much needed power!

Ireland sadly has put it's bets and billions into wind farms and there is absolutely no denying that we have plenty of wind, but it's the fact we have too much of it is the problem, because the steam generators have to be kept on standby all the time it is wasteful and we have no way of storing the excess and so the wind farms have to be turned off. An article in a British newspaper printed an excellent article on wind and I'll see if I can dig it up. Basically they said that a wind is 20 times more expensive than traditional forms of electricity generation!

Germany is also slowly realising that the subsidies for renewables were a mistake, all the Billions of taxpayers money for such tiny electricity generation was insane and then guaranteeing the public the ridiculous feed in tariff's for 20 years, pure madness!

And the fact it increased the cost of electricity for the less well off who can't afford to install the solar panels is even more madness!

The E.U is crippled with high fuel taxes. If the tax was not so high we would not care about efficient cars, but rising oil prices don't help because the Governments will not reduce tax when the oil gets so expensive, blaming the oil companies even though 60% of a tank of petrol or diesel is pure tax! ( they think we are fools )

I want to see a clean source of energy mainly because of the health effects of fossil fuels and the damage to the environment in it's production and use and not because of Co2 that the E.U bullshits about all the time as if Co2 was causing cancer or pollution!

 

[John in CR]

Cheap batteries coupled with cheap solar panels is the easy answer, making locations with both good sun and plentiful fresh water the desirable place to be. Cheap enough PV even bring hydrogen into the picture as longer term storage to meet needs during extended periods of little sun. The problem is this precludes The Man (the utilities and oil companies) to extract their ongoing regular payment from an energy self sufficient populace, so they are likely to block broad adoption in whatever way they can.

I love the idea of energy independence at the household level and is one of the main factors attracting me to this hobby, since transportation is the primary energy need unless ebikes are your family's primary transportation.

 

[o00scorpion00o]

A 3 kw solar pv system will set you back around 20,000 Euros here!

Might be worth it if you had an electric car! Maybe not 20 k is a he'll of a lot of money. If that could be brought down to 5k it would open up a whole new world of energy generation!

 

[John in CR]

A 3 kw solar pv system will set you back around 20,000 Euros here!

Might be worth it if you had an electric car! Maybe not 20 k is a he'll of a lot of money. If that could be brought down to 5k it would open up a whole new world of energy generation!

You can buy PV cells already soldered with short leads for $.50/watt or less. Panel construction should less than double that, so you're looking at panels for under $1/watt + sweat equity. Add maybe $500 for big charge controllers and all you need is cheap batteries for storage. DIY is the way to go at this point. Harold in CR and I split 1kw of cells, and by the time we're back into our sunny time starting in January, we should both have panels up and running. I'm going for light and portable for a portable ebike solar charge station, and maybe some on-board charging too. Harold is going for home installation with tracking. Hopefully we both have good results to share fairly soon.

Even at 20k euros, if it's built into the cost of the house that's nothing, though 3kw is frugal. I looked at our family needs and want 10-12kw of solar to cover ecar transportation too, while being as energy wasteful as we wish, since there's no variable cost. That should be the direction of the future, but how can the utilities allow that to happen when they want their monthly payment, and have the money and power to squash broad adoption? A good long-term real estate play would be areas with good sun and water, because that's where the demand will be.

Cheap batteries solves everything, since the conversion to hydrogen is still so lossy. The future is bright in my book, and I can't wait till "the future is now".

 

[o00scorpion00o]

Wind is our biggest asset and boy do we have loads of it.

If I lived in the country I'd have a wind turbine without doubt!

 

[ashwright]

A 3 kw solar pv system will set you back around 20,000 Euros here!

Sure that's right? A 3kW system would set you back about AUD$8000 here, which is about EUR$6000.
I release the countries are different, but the cost of solar systems has dropped about 50% (half) of the last 12 months.

 

[o00scorpion00o]

A 3 kw solar pv system will set you back around 20,000 Euros here!

Sure that's right? A 3kW system would set you back about AUD$8000 here, which is about EUR$6000.
I release the countries are different, but the cost of solar systems has dropped about 50% (half) of the last 12 months.

Are you joking?

Half in 12 months, how come ?? Yeah 20 k for 3kw, don't forget this is Europe where everything is expensive.

I was looking at an 80 watt panel from the U.K to charge my bike battry at a cost of 200 euros, then I realised that at a cost of 1.2 cent to charge, It would never pay me back!

I will research it further!

 

[ashwright]

Half in 12 months, how come ?? Yeah 20 k for 3kw, don't forget this is Europe where everything is expensive.

The Chinese have finally worked out how to make good quality panels at much cheaper prices. That is the reason for the recent drops in solar panel costs. It has only been the last 3 months or so, we have seen the big drops.
Perhaps we are closer, so shipping from China is less expansive.

Back on topic, what technology is the next big increase in energy density going to come from after LiPO?

 

[scotticeberg]

Enough cheap renewable energy and hydrogen from water really starts to make sense. The ultimate clean method of storage is hydrogen.

 

[jonescg]

If I were to go off-grid, I'd buy a stack of nickel-iron cells with LiOH or KOH electrolyte and charge these bad boys up in Perth's endless glorious sunshine. They work out to be about $830 per kWh of storage capacity. We use about 10 kWh per day in our little house through summer, but easily double that in winter. So a 40 kWh rack of batteries costs $33,000. Panels, without any government subsidies to charge this at a respectable rate (3 kW) would be $15,000. Some people spend this amount of money on electric motorcycles in a single year! ... As far as stationary power generation is concerned, this is a lot of start-up, but given a house in Perth costs $500,000, what's an extra 10%?

We only need a doubling of battery energy density to be set, I reckon. Personal transport is a massive luxury which really shouldn't be a priority, but electric bikes make a lot of sense.

 

[Hillhater]

but how can the utilities allow that to happen when they want their monthly payment, and have the money and power to squash broad adoption? A good long-term real estate play would be areas with good sun and water, because that's where the demand will be.

"the Man" will find a way of "taxing" any source of energy you use, if it becomes widespread.
Remember the 16th century "Window Tax" ?,...to tax the amount of light in houses ?
Or even the "storm water" tax,..... still used in some areas to tax the amount of rain water collected from roof areas and run into municipal storm drains ?
so, a "solar panel" tax, .. related to area or even metered power from panels,..is not inconceivable
..And for EV cars with no "fuel Tax" .... well, expect road tolls or GPS monitoring for distance charges ?

 

[o00scorpion00o]

but how can the utilities allow that to happen when they want their monthly payment, and have the money and power to squash broad adoption? A good long-term real estate play would be areas with good sun and water, because that's where the demand will be.

"the Man" will find a way of "taxing" any source of energy you use, if it becomes widespread.
Remember the 16th century "Window Tax" ?,...to tax the amount of light in houses ?lking
Or even the "storm water" tax,..... still used in some areas to tax the amount of rain water collected from roof areas and run into municipal storm drains ?
so, a "solar panel" tax, .. related to area or even metered power from panels,..is not inconceivable
..And for EV cars with no "fuel Tax" .... well, expect road tolls or GPS monitoring for distance charges ?

They are talking already about many mote tolls here, with no mention of reducing fuel tax.

I agree with you on this for sure, once they get us into ev's they will invent some tax, I mean the billions of tax they get from fuel must be replaced they will simply not allow us away with it!

Ireland already has levys on electricity bills for renewable energy, but they give it to big companies, the average man gets absolutely nothing to aid in the installation of wind turbines or solar panels. Feed in tariffs are paid at half the price we pay for it. We also have co2 tax on electric bills!

They offer a small grant for the installation of hot water solar, which in my opinion is a waste because wind or solar would have much better gains because during the winter months your heating system heats the hot water anyway, where a 3 kw solar pv system would go a hell of a lot further to reducing the amount of energy we buy from utilities!

But of course it's law that every new home here have some kind of renewable system and it makes it look like the government is doing something good for the country and the environment!

Bit like the building boom and the billions they were making on property tax, anther story!

 

[USAEBIKECO]

Smaller more powerful batteries are the way of the future. Dispite the supression of certain groups we will see several breakthroughs in the next 10 years in my opinion.

Apple needs longer lasting batteries for future devices. Not even exxon can stop apple.

 

[o00scorpion00o]

I see on wiki where the price of solar pv has dropped to around 1 Dollar per watt. But yet they still charge around 20k Euros for a 3kw system here that I can see on the net.

1 dollar a watt is very good IMO? Of course installation is going to cost too and grid connecting!

Sent using Endless-Sphere Mobile app

 

[robb]

"Yeah 20 k for 3kw, don't forget this is Europe where everything is expensive."


Must be dearer in Ireland. I was recently quoted about £9000 rougly 10000 euros for a 3.5kw system installed in the UK, probably similar to this http://www.aecsolar.co.uk/costs/ That should supply most of our electric. Still working out if it is worth or can get a loan as we don't have the cash. For those that have though seems pretty good to me compared say against the price of a new car , £10 to £20000 or a modest house £100 to £200,000 in the uk
I don't really understand why there is so much bellittling of renewables and promotion of fracking tar oils coal etc which is going with little doubt to kill billions of us if not all life on earth according to climate change theory which looks pretty sound to me. Never heard of any other explanation of climate change past and present which explains and predicts so clearly and simply from the known facts, unless we just believe the bulk of scientists are liars.
Also worried about nuclear as I don't think we will ever get rid of the threat of nuclear annihalarion from bombs or risk of cancer terrorism from what will be millions of tons of high level nuclear waste spread throughout the world for ever.Though fusion sounds ok Is it ever going to work? Think it may not and anyway is at least 50 years away. Better in my view to have the odd day with less energy.. Shut down the factory and go for a ride instead.
Rob

 

[liveforphysics]

If the cells can be had for a dollar a Watt, then the fold here with the skills to build there own ebikes should be able to have working solar setups at there home for under $2 a Watt installed if they are willing to do a bit if learning online and spend a few good weekends working on it.

 

[Harold in CR]

I just checked ebay. 1KW TABBED BOTH SIDES 6" X 6" cells, shipped, $3.95. Includes solder, flux, ribbon connecting strip and buss wire, and 7- 10A Diodes. Cells are rated .5-.6 V at 8+A each. 16% efficiency. Perfect cells. No chips, cracks, broken corners.

These will make a 144W panel, using 36 cells.

Pretty hard to beat this deal.

 

[o00scorpion00o]

"Yeah 20 k for 3kw, don't forget this is Europe where everything is expensive."


Must be dearer in Ireland. I was recently quoted about £9000 rougly 10000 euros for a 3.5kw system installed in the UK, probably similar to this http://www.aecsolar.co.uk/costs/ That should supply most of our electric. Still working out if it is worth or can get a loan as we don't have the cash. For those that have though seems pretty good to me compared say against the price of a new car , £10 to £20000 or a modest house £100 to £200,000 in the uk
I don't really understand why there is so much bellittling of renewables and promotion of fracking tar oils coal etc which is going with little doubt to kill billions of us if not all life on earth according to climate change theory which looks pretty sound to me. Never heard of any other explanation of climate change past and present which explains and predicts so clearly and simply from the known facts, unless we just believe the bulk of scientists are liars.
Also worried about nuclear as I don't think we will ever get rid of the threat of nuclear annihalarion from bombs or risk of cancer terrorism from what will be millions of tons of high level nuclear waste spread throughout the world for ever.Though fusion sounds ok Is it ever going to work? Think it may not and anyway is at least 50 years away. Better in my view to have the odd day with less energy.. Shut down the factory and go for a ride instead.
Rob

HI Robb,

Well there are other sides to the argument of anthropogenic warming, or man made warming.

People should be aware that the highest temperature was recorded in 1998 and has not since been broken, with 2010 being one of the warmest years since 1998, but that record (since satellite records began in 1979) has not been broken.

I think we have reached the stage where many so called scientists have lost credibility and would rather not go against the general beliefs of the scientific community even though it's for science!

There are very compelling arguments of natural variations in the climate such as ocean cycles and sun cycles, and sun cycles is a now proven fact to change climate on earth. The sun is predicted to go into a quiet phase that could last 100 years or more, then ocean cycles are predicted to go into a cool phase, the pacific is now going into a cooler phase and the Atlantic is predicted to follow in the next few years, then there is increased volcanic activity, and high latitude volcano's have an effect on climate too.

One of nasa's newer satellites have also shown that a lot more Co2 escapes the atmosphere than previously thought!

Fusion would be fantastic, but Thorium is a nuclear fuel that used in l.f.t.r reactors has many advantages and slowly people are beginning to realise it. You can't make nukes from it either!

Right way off topic, sorry. I am very interested in the whole man made climate change (theory) and I'm very interested in energy technology.

 

[Hillhater]

Geez ! .. i hope that last post flys under the radar of a few members or you will have stirred up the sleeping monster of Climate Change !! :lol: :lol:

 

[jonescg]

Let's just hope Godwin's law isn't enacted :lol:

 

[o00scorpion00o]

Sleeping mnster of climate change ? Haha I missed something on e.s so!

The climate has been changing all the time on earth.

 

[MitchJi]

Hi,

A 3 kw solar pv system will set you back around 20,000 Euros here!

If that could be brought down to 5k it would open up a whole new world of energy generation!

It's coming!:
http://blogs.scientificamerican.com...-faster-does-moores-law-apply-to-solar-cells/

http://www.grist.org/solar-power/2011-06-09-solar-getting-cheaper-fast