Hardergamer
100 W
- Joined
- Jan 7, 2017
- Messages
- 103
Brum: what was your last rear tyre?
verdict on mtb/moto tyres
- Thread starter ljbuzz
- Start date
On my ebikes I run bike tires on some and moto tires on others. One setup I have a 17inch 241 in the rear and 26inch Magic Mary in the front. Each setup has its own advantages. After many miles, tires, and bikes here are my favorite tires:
Street
bike: Hookworms, Big Apples
Moto: Shinko 244, Gazelle
Offroad
bike: Magic Mary
moto: Shinko 241
Overall, I am slowly gravitating more towards the shinko 241 and 244 simply because changing tires is getting old.
Street
bike: Hookworms, Big Apples
Moto: Shinko 244, Gazelle
Offroad
bike: Magic Mary
moto: Shinko 241
Overall, I am slowly gravitating more towards the shinko 241 and 244 simply because changing tires is getting old.
Chalo
100 TW
If you ride a motorcycle, use motorcycle tires. If it's a bicycle, use bicycle tires.
If you ride a bicycle and you want it to be oppressively slow and heavy, use motorcycle tires.
If you ride a bicycle and you want it to be oppressively slow and heavy, use motorcycle tires.
litespeed
100 kW
Love your wit and charm but could not disagree more on the "slow & heavy" part. 115 lbs on a 19 horsepower peak electric bike is not heavy or slow.
To define a bicycle your absolutely right but these are not your average bicycles...thus the reason for multiple thousands of members all merging here to discuss electric bicycles and such....we are using the term bicycle in the loosest terms and you appear to be swimming upstream here but believe me, I get you.
Did I mention that I love your wit and charm?
Tom
To define a bicycle your absolutely right but these are not your average bicycles...thus the reason for multiple thousands of members all merging here to discuss electric bicycles and such....we are using the term bicycle in the loosest terms and you appear to be swimming upstream here but believe me, I get you.
Did I mention that I love your wit and charm?
Tom
boytitan
100 W
litespeed said:
Agree 100%.
Heck Enduro and Raptor frame bikes are pretty much motorcycles with pedals. They can do circles around unmodded mopeds. Biggest reason pedaling is popular on ebikes is to increase the range. In five year once we can get excellent range out of batteries e bikes aside from pedal assist ebikes will no longer have pedals the same way as mopeds. Electric bikes as the technology advances can give birth to 2 very different classes of bikes them sub classes from there.
liveforphysics
100 TW
I run bicycle tires on the unpowered wheel (front) and a moto tire on the powered wheel.
It is a notable weight penalty, but I can't seem to keep air in a bicycle tire for more than a day or two.
It is a notable weight penalty, but I can't seem to keep air in a bicycle tire for more than a day or two.
boytitan
100 W
liveforphysics said:
PSI you run at ?
MadRhino
100 GW
litespeed said:
It is very heavy and slow, when riding behind one that is 69 lbs with the same power.
litespeed
100 kW
I live in the show me state........not sure how a frame can make 45 lbs difference considering mine doesn't weigh but half that.
Tom
Tom
spiros
10 W
Dorado works really good I have test it in downhill race e-bike and is really plush and comfortable for my hands but can be also a race fork the only problem was in case of crash I valve to uptight the screws of the crown and the axle for get aligned the forks legs because they get some Tork
But only in case of hard crash.
I have also a couple of heavy free ride bikes and I do ride hard downhill race pathways with 2ply bicycle tyres without having any problem and I get some flat tyre but at three same frequency as with my normal dh bike.
My e-dhbkes use cyclone or Mc upgrade kit
But only in case of hard crash.
I have also a couple of heavy free ride bikes and I do ride hard downhill race pathways with 2ply bicycle tyres without having any problem and I get some flat tyre but at three same frequency as with my normal dh bike.
My e-dhbkes use cyclone or Mc upgrade kit
MadRhino
100 GW
Of course, frame is only a part of the complete list of components that are making the total weight of a bike. It is easy to add weight, but saving weight without compromising riding quality and reliability can be complicated at first, and at some point the last bits are very expansive.litespeed said:
Battery, wheels, and suspension components are the first targets, then the drive train and mounts... Each part of the component list has to be selected for weight and quality, and for some they are rare, custom and $$$.
litespeed
100 kW
If I was racing then yes I'd be more into weight but not for an every day get on it and ride fun bike. Never been a weight weenie and coming from 400cc thumper bikes this thing is a feather weight. Also considering I'm 6' 4" and 210 lbs proportionately it's pretty freaking light. I personally like toting a DH bike around over a lighter bike, just has a better feel to it for me but peddling sucked! Next I'd like to build a 20kw continuous mid drive (read motorcycle!) at around 175 lbs and that would be the bomb.
Tom
Tom
MadRhino
100 GW
I am not a weight weenie, if I was I would be into lower power mid drives for a better " bicycle feel ".
I am into performance, and when I reached the power limits of a hub build, I worked on weight and geometry to improve effective power transformed into motion. Every pound saved is adding effective power to a bike, just as good as feeding more Kw, only without the heat and motor reliability issues. Minor geometry changes are also making a neat difference, especially in managing hard acceleration, and high speed handling.
I have considered using a motorcycle mid drive, but not for my daily mountain or city rides. I see it better for a big, long distance cruiser for weekend trips with GF and luggage.
I am into performance, and when I reached the power limits of a hub build, I worked on weight and geometry to improve effective power transformed into motion. Every pound saved is adding effective power to a bike, just as good as feeding more Kw, only without the heat and motor reliability issues. Minor geometry changes are also making a neat difference, especially in managing hard acceleration, and high speed handling.
I have considered using a motorcycle mid drive, but not for my daily mountain or city rides. I see it better for a big, long distance cruiser for weekend trips with GF and luggage.
atarijedi said:
They are the expert forks. There is no difference between them and the pro version apart from more refined machining to cut out a minimal amount of weight on the pro version. They are very plush and smooth and give me a little extra turning lock than my last rockshox domain forks did which is really handy as dual crown forks are mostly shite for it unless they have more forward caster between the neck and the legs of the fork.
litespeed
100 kW
MadRhino said:
I hear what you are saying but sometimes cutting weight isn't the best thing but sounds like you know what your doing. I had this off road race car called a Drakart Formula Cross. This car beat everything with no prejudice! It was a single seat car with a Rotax 600 cc mxz motor CVT tranny with forward and reverse with custom pipe pushing 110 hp. The car weighed in at 685 lbs and had 16" of wheel travel. 0-60 in about 4 seconds and 80 mph is 8 seconds. Top speed right under 100 mph. You get the idea, it was super fast, super light and could take 3 to 4' whoops at 80 mph with one hand on the steering wheel while drinking a cup of tea. Long story short the car kept falling apart. If you search by my name/Drakart you can see my car and how I had to constantly rebuild it gusseting the frame and other bits to keep it going. It was the lightest and all the best components on the market but saving the weight killed durability. Also that extra weight helps manage and absorb vibrations better giving longer service life to metals.
So again, you are right but I have this experience with shedding weight at the expense of long service life. For me, I'll give up a hp or 2.
I still miss the car though!!!
Tom
MadRhino
100 GW
That is a very funny ride, extreme I'd say, with the high maintenance that is inherent characteristic of extremes.
My first effort building lighter was my Demo 8 that was completed at 76 lbs. That was a neat improvement from the 88 lbs of the previous. I did ride over 30 000 Km with it, on and off road. Reliability was good on the street but crashes in the mountain were expansives. I saved another 7 pounds building a street performance bike and it is better than my Demo. Then I built a V10 for the mountain. This one is 82 lbs and crash reliable, proved over 4 hard riding seasons and a dozen crashes.
None of those bikes are extremely light. I mean, each was built using a pro DH frame and top quality DH components. I would never go as far as building on some lighter AM racing frame using smaller components to save another 10 pounds. I keep within reasonable maintenance requirements, very strict about handling and safety.
Now back to wheels :wink:
On my street bike ( top speed above 70 Mph ), I use bicycle 24 rims 65mm wide, laced with 14 ga SS spokes, fitted with Berm Master tires that are lasting avg 6 weeks Rr and 6 month Fr. Pretty light wheel and reliable hard riding in the city. On my dirt bike ( top speed 55 Mph ), I use 26" rims 32 mm wide Double Track, laced 14 ga SS spokes, fitted with Kenda Nevegal tires that are lasting avg 4 weeks Rr and 10 weeks Fr.
All wheels are built with rim washers, using DH tubes and 4 oz of green slime. Most of my tires are replaced before having any flat. Of course, I wear many tires per year, but my bikes are built to change them quickly. The dirt bike does require frequent wheel trueing, avg 1/2 hr per week, and new rims each year. The street bike needed 2 Rr rims in 3 years.
My first effort building lighter was my Demo 8 that was completed at 76 lbs. That was a neat improvement from the 88 lbs of the previous. I did ride over 30 000 Km with it, on and off road. Reliability was good on the street but crashes in the mountain were expansives. I saved another 7 pounds building a street performance bike and it is better than my Demo. Then I built a V10 for the mountain. This one is 82 lbs and crash reliable, proved over 4 hard riding seasons and a dozen crashes.
None of those bikes are extremely light. I mean, each was built using a pro DH frame and top quality DH components. I would never go as far as building on some lighter AM racing frame using smaller components to save another 10 pounds. I keep within reasonable maintenance requirements, very strict about handling and safety.
Now back to wheels :wink:
On my street bike ( top speed above 70 Mph ), I use bicycle 24 rims 65mm wide, laced with 14 ga SS spokes, fitted with Berm Master tires that are lasting avg 6 weeks Rr and 6 month Fr. Pretty light wheel and reliable hard riding in the city. On my dirt bike ( top speed 55 Mph ), I use 26" rims 32 mm wide Double Track, laced 14 ga SS spokes, fitted with Kenda Nevegal tires that are lasting avg 4 weeks Rr and 10 weeks Fr.
All wheels are built with rim washers, using DH tubes and 4 oz of green slime. Most of my tires are replaced before having any flat. Of course, I wear many tires per year, but my bikes are built to change them quickly. The dirt bike does require frequent wheel trueing, avg 1/2 hr per week, and new rims each year. The street bike needed 2 Rr rims in 3 years.
Quokka
1 kW
Thing that scares me about bike tyres is when they go pop and you have a 15-20 km walk on your hands. Done that once and never again i hope
litespeed
100 kW
Quokka said:
Exactly what he said....forgot that point....but ask me how I know.
Tom
MadRhino
100 GW
Well, this could happen for so many other reasons...
I had to come back walking 40 miles in the snow once. Jeep wrecked in a national park at -15 C and night coming. Took me 2 days, for I had to stop and make a fire very often to dry and rest. I was almost out of the park when I met rescue.
I learned a lesson then: Don't go deep in the wild alone, and if you ever have to, tell someone exactly where you are going and the route you plan.
I had to come back walking 40 miles in the snow once. Jeep wrecked in a national park at -15 C and night coming. Took me 2 days, for I had to stop and make a fire very often to dry and rest. I was almost out of the park when I met rescue.
I learned a lesson then: Don't go deep in the wild alone, and if you ever have to, tell someone exactly where you are going and the route you plan.
a_ski_racer
1 µW
- Joined
- May 9, 2016
- Messages
- 3
I am planning to use motorcycle wheels on my next 2wd build. Parts are ordered. 80 - 85 km/h is the target. Some questions based on what I saw in this thread:
Why does no one suggest 21 inch motorcycle rims? A 21 inch rims plus the tires comes out close to the diameter of a 26 in mtb wheel? That's what I am using.
How effective are the hub fins for cooling? The fins are oriented across the airflow which isn't optimal. I will need extra cooling on my motors and was considering trying these so I wonder if you have any data on actual temperature drop with the hub cooling fins.
Steering at high speed - for those who have ridden motorcycles (street, not dirt) and bicycles you know that they feel different. To turn a motorcycle you push the handlebars opposite the direction you want to turn. The motorcycle mass and the gyroscopic forces from the bigger wheels dominates the steering dynamics at higher speeds. On a bicycle our body weight dominates but push steering works too, you just don't realize you are doing it. When an electric bicycle is getting to motorcycle speeds, with motorcycle wheels, does the steering response start to feel like a motorcycle or does it still feel like a bicycle? Just wondering about steering feel compared to a motorcycle because I haven't seen any comments about that in the topics I have read.
Steve
Why does no one suggest 21 inch motorcycle rims? A 21 inch rims plus the tires comes out close to the diameter of a 26 in mtb wheel? That's what I am using.
How effective are the hub fins for cooling? The fins are oriented across the airflow which isn't optimal. I will need extra cooling on my motors and was considering trying these so I wonder if you have any data on actual temperature drop with the hub cooling fins.
Steering at high speed - for those who have ridden motorcycles (street, not dirt) and bicycles you know that they feel different. To turn a motorcycle you push the handlebars opposite the direction you want to turn. The motorcycle mass and the gyroscopic forces from the bigger wheels dominates the steering dynamics at higher speeds. On a bicycle our body weight dominates but push steering works too, you just don't realize you are doing it. When an electric bicycle is getting to motorcycle speeds, with motorcycle wheels, does the steering response start to feel like a motorcycle or does it still feel like a bicycle? Just wondering about steering feel compared to a motorcycle because I haven't seen any comments about that in the topics I have read.
Steve
litespeed
100 kW
When the bike weighs in at under 120 lbs you don't feel the tires much or at least I do not. I'm 6'4" and 210 lbs so to me the bike still seems "bicycle like" I'm sure it would feel different to different people. You would probably notice the weight of the front and rear motors before the wheel weight I'm thinking. Feels heavier than a 30 lbs bicycle but feels like a bicycle compared to a motorcycle.
21" tires are cool but I think most stay away from the large diameter for hub motors. Also I think the spoke angles were off or something like that. I originally wanted 18 rear and 21" front but not common at all and smaller is better for hubs. I run a 19 front and 17 rear.
Hub sinks are excellent in my opinion. They just add more surface area to wick heat away from the motor. They don't need direct wind but still get plenty of air movement over them. You want to use ferrofluid in combination with the hub sinks for best results.
Tom
21" tires are cool but I think most stay away from the large diameter for hub motors. Also I think the spoke angles were off or something like that. I originally wanted 18 rear and 21" front but not common at all and smaller is better for hubs. I run a 19 front and 17 rear.
Hub sinks are excellent in my opinion. They just add more surface area to wick heat away from the motor. They don't need direct wind but still get plenty of air movement over them. You want to use ferrofluid in combination with the hub sinks for best results.
Tom
a_ski_racer said:
1. 21 inch MC wheels and tires get way too heavy. Remember that with rotating and unsprung mass the physics are very different with adding that 15 extra pounds to your wheels than if it were your battery pack mounted on the frame. A really heavy MC wheel/tire/hub motor combo plays hell on bicycle suspension components
2. If your build is for exclusively street riding then you want to go with 17 inch wheels or smaller. Look around at sportbikes and you will find that most of them are on 17 inch wheels as well. The smaller front wheel helps turn in and a smaller diameter will accelerate and brake better than larger wheels on the street.
3. What you are describing with the steering is called countersteering. Keith Code writes about it at length. I highly recommend you purchase his book called "Twist of the Wrist II." It teaches about high performance motorcycle riding and controlling your survival reactions that usually cause crashes on two wheels. Countersteering is not just a MC thing, all bikes transition from 'turn where you want to go' to 'turn away from where you want to go to initiate a turn' once you are traveling fast enough that the CG, wheelbase, contact patch, etc. dictate such.
I find the heavier MC tires to feel much more stable at higher speeds and have no difficulty with gyroscopic forces. None of my ebikes feel anything like my motorcycles. You will need to make sure that you have appropriate front end geometry if you intend to travel high speeds for extended lengths on a 'bicycle.' I would also recommend using high end downhill components for your suspension and other control components.
markz
100 TW
Couple things here
As far as Schwalbe goes on #Protection and #Durability
Magic Mary Performance Bike Park 5 - 5 ---> https://www.schwalbe.com/en/offroad-reader/magic-mary.html
Hurricane RaceGuard 4 - 4
Hurricane Performance 3 - 4
Smart Sam....
Plus X
Perf 3.5 - 5
RG 4 - 5
DDI 5.5 - 5
RibMo and Marathon Plus are both touted as a puncture resistance tire.
Shinko SR241 and SR244 are quite common for motorcycle tires.
As far as Schwalbe goes on #Protection and #Durability
Magic Mary Performance Bike Park 5 - 5 ---> https://www.schwalbe.com/en/offroad-reader/magic-mary.html
Hurricane RaceGuard 4 - 4
Hurricane Performance 3 - 4
Smart Sam....
Plus X
Perf 3.5 - 5
RG 4 - 5
DDI 5.5 - 5
RibMo and Marathon Plus are both touted as a puncture resistance tire.
Shinko SR241 and SR244 are quite common for motorcycle tires.
