Wayne’s Dengfu Carbon Fibre FS 27.5” with Bafang M600 (throttle also)

[tsellers]

Interesting post patdam.

I see the listing has this note, "So our display can't change Max Speed,the defaul speed setting is 25KM/h."

I wonder if they mean 25 miles per hour rather than kilometers per hour?

 

[waynebergman]

Update for today. All is well. Controllor from FLX works just fine. Smooth enough in the PAS and feels peppy in power level 5. Throttle works good just like in my original controllor from manufacturer back in 2018. A bit of a bummer that the battery will only charge to 51.3 after leaving on the charger overnight. I have inquired to Denfu themselves and they are closed for Chineese new years so I plan to buy a new battery pack and charger from them later in Feb when they open up again.

So I am happy and learned a few things along the way. Unfortunatly my learing seems to always cost me money.

Glad to be under e power again.

 

[tsellers]

so I plan to buy a new battery pack and charger from them

You could always rebuild your existing one and save a few $$

 

[NoFanBoiz]

happy for you wayne. pity all desagrements just for the display.

I have seen on ali DPC860C announced for M600/500, i will store one

https://fr.aliexpress.com/item/4001053968920.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.74036c37CFRWe1

Listing says:

"Important Notice:

Canbus display 860C compatible with Bafang mid motor M600 M500 and M800,these ebike motor with speed limit 25KM/h.

According to law,these Bafang motors don't allow cyclist to change Max Speed.

So our display can't change Max Speed,the defaul speed setting is 25KM/h."

M600 owners that buy one, please reply with your findings in regard to top speed displayed.

 

[Animalector]

I think the point is that you cannot edit the speed through the display interface. The actual speed limit is programmed into the controller, changing the display should not change this setting.

 

[NoFanBoiz]

I think the point is that you cannot edit the speed through the display interface. The actual speed limit is programmed into the controller, changing the display should not change this setting.

I agree, would be nice to have confirmation though! Wonder if the linked display shows more details than the Banfang one. Could do if the display has a processor doing its own calculations based on the CANbus data, but I suppose the controller board does this work.

 

[xp67]

I am happy for you Wayne. You can afford a new battery from the money you saved for not buying a complete M600 motor set. :lol:

I have a stash of the awesome high discharge Sony VTC5 cells. Trying to figure out a way to increase the range of my bike as I live in a pretty hilly area here. My in-frame battery case is the Reention Eel Mini which can take a maximum of 40 cells. I can only pack in 13s2p with BMS into the tiny battery case. Maybe I can pack in 14s2p 52V but that is the max that can fit. Probably need to parallel another battery pack into a rear bike rack.

 

[NoFanBoiz]

happy for you wayne. pity all desagrements just for the display.

I have seen on ali DPC860C announced for M600/500, i will store one

https://fr.aliexpress.com/item/4001053968920.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.74036c37CFRWe1

Luna also sell it, but say "This display has wheel size fixed to 27.5"

 

[waynebergman]

Just a quick update on how the FLX controller is working. On original test ride I thought it was pretty much the same as my original controller supplied with the drive but it does in fact act a little differently in the lower power levels in comparision to my original spec. I really liked the smoothness in the power level 1 on the old original set up. PAS was super smooth and it was just like pedaling a super light bike with a little bit of extra help but the replacement contorlor is a little bit jumpy, not hugely but more jumpy for sure than my old one. Its fine riding up a slight hill and if you want to get some good exercise and just use the low power and still have smoothness in pas but once on the flat the power will kick in and scoot you up into a faster pedal cadence which is a bit anoying but not the end of the world. Just glad to have the bike up and running and I have my old controllor now in the spare parts box so I can always swap it out if it gets to be a bother. Still, a big thanks to FLX they came to the rescue when no other suppliers seemed to have the time for me or understanding of this drive.........wayne

 

[xp67]

Just a quick update on how the FLX controller is working. On original test ride I thought it was pretty much the same as my original controller supplied with the drive but it does in fact act a little differently in the lower power levels in comparision to my original spec. I really liked the smoothness in the power level 1 on the old original set up. PAS was super smooth and it was just like pedaling a super light bike with a little bit of extra help but the replacement contorlor is a little bit jumpy, not hugely but more jumpy for sure than my old one. Its fine riding up a slight hill and if you want to get some good exercise and just use the low power and still have smoothness in pas but once on the flat the power will kick in and scoot you up into a faster pedal cadence which is a bit anoying but not the end of the world. Just glad to have the bike up and running and I have my old controllor now in the spare parts box so I can always swap it out if it gets to be a bother. Still, a big thanks to FLX they came to the rescue when no other suppliers seemed to have the time for me or understanding of this drive.........wayne

I can agree with you Wayne. I have forgotten how smooth it was with the original controller but now that you mentioned it I did feel the over powered cut in at low speeds. Like you I found it quite a nuisance and even slightly hazardous. I may swap back to my original controller but I will have to keep my fingers crossed that my original controller is not faulty and will not fry my new display.

 

[xp67]

Hi Wayne, I have refitted my original controller. Voila! Nice smooth progressive response again. I believe it is lower level of assist at lower setting 1,2,3. I will not go back to the FLX controller. I found it very abrupt and rough.

 

[waynebergman]

Hey xp that is a good plan, I will follow your lead and do the same. I dont mind having paid the 80 bucks for the spare contorller as I at least have a spare in my parts box and this also may help for trouble shooting down the road. If things quit working and if you know you have a working controller in the spare parts box you can eleminate that out of what may be acting up so I think its nice to have a working back up just in case. I will switch out back to the old original controller and baby it like its GOLD. Who knows if we can ever find a replacement that works as smooth. I think Bafang has really shit the bed on this one. Its one thing if they dont want folks tinkering with factory setting but come on give us something that works. What works for a smooth pedal assist for one user may work horrible for another user if they are differing in weight by 100 lbs or so. For me on the flat ground power level #1 moves me to quickly so I can not choose to have a nice slow pedal cadence and I think its partly because I am light in weight. Its almost like the torque sensor is not working as it should in the lower power levels with this contorller. Power level one going up hills is great but anoying on the flat ground, all the more reason we need to be able to program this stuff according to the riders weight and personal preferences.

The M600 is a great little drive and has the potential to be perhaps best in its class but come on Bafang throw us a bone here. Sort out this compatability stuff and let us program this stuff to suite our needs.

 

[xp67]

Totally agree with you Wayne. The M600 is a fantastic robust little powerhouse. And it is so quiet. A total handicap with the locked software setting. I was browsing through the display setting just now. There is nothing I can tweak, even the wheel size is locked at 28inch, speed limiter is 25mph. I have built a 13s2p battery pack sitting in a handle bar bag. So my battery range is doubled up. I am enjoying this bike a lot.

I am also dithering on a preowned Frey HT1000 with the Bafang Ultra motor. The deal is too good to pass. The power is amazing and it has a throttle as well. What a monster. But it is a hard tail.

 

[waynebergman]

OK another update, I switched back to my original controller as I was thinking it was not the source of my problems but in fact it was no good. Error 30 displays with my old controler and new flx display. I kind of assumed that my display was the source of all my problems but this was because the replacement LUna display was not compatable with the replacement FLX controler. Once I ordered a new display from FLX to match the FLX control my error 30 messages went away so I assumed it was the display all along but it was in fact the original controller that was toast. So long story short I am running the new controller and display from FLX. It works well in throttle mode but not so great on low power levels wtih the pedal assist. My work around will have to be if I am on flat ground on low power levels I will need to nurse the throttle to smooth things out as the throttle overides the jerkness of the pedal assist in all power levels. Not ideal but atleast I am back on the road and trail......wayne

 

[Tom]

In terms of smoothness, I would think that's a function of firmware as opposed to controller. Have you considered ordering the BESST tool from Luna to experiment with various firmware?

https://lunacycle.com/bafang-besst-service-tool/

I decided to pick one up as the Luna X1 tuning is garbage (practically worthless for non-ludi in PAS 1-2 of 5). I have not had a chance to experiment but there is some user feedback here:

https://electricbike.com/forum/forum/main-forum/general-discussions/118423-x-1-m600-besst-firmware-programming

FLX also sells the BESST tool but currently out of stock:

https://flx.bike/products/bafang-besst-service-tool

 

[xp67]

That is a pity Wayne.

Thanks for the info Tom. I am contented to leave my M600 alone with the original controller.

I bought the Frey HT1000. Its Bafang Ultra is quite nice. It uses torque sensing and is very smooth to operate. Very different from the M600 using cadence sensing. I will try it out properly this weekend. Looking forward to it.

 

[waynebergman]

Tom please update us when you have experimented with the programing tool. I dont have access to a PC any longer so not jumping in yet.

XP you have mentioned the M600 does not operate on torque sensing but it does function on torque sensing. Just not as smooth as it should.

 

[xp67]

Yes, apparently the M600 does have torque sensing + 2 speed sensors. I was confused with the BBS02/BBSHD vs tsdz2 when I was researching a motor kit for my light 26 inch mtb. I ordered a tszd2 in the end since it is lighter, cheaper and has torque sensing.

 

[xp67]

After installing the TSDZ2 on my old 26inch full suspension carbon frame mtb, I am awed by the smoothness of the torque sensing pedal assist. It felt so natural I bet my son will not be able to tell if I didn't tell him it has an electric motor. Lovely motor kit, low priced. Even the throttle response is smooth. But the lack of power is very obvious when compared to the M600. Level 3 of 4 power setting on the TSDZ2 felt equivalent to the level 1 of M600. Definitely not as robustly built as a Bafang. I am not confident it can handle the hills.

Anyways, I want a throttle on the M600 after experiencing the TSDZ2 and the Bafang Ultra. Great when I am dead tired on the return trip uphill.

Wayne, since your M600 is of equivalent age and set up, do think it is as simple as buying a throttle and plugging it into one of the 2 unused yellow triangle 3 pin connectors on my forward harness? One connector is female and the other male. Where can I source a throttle? I cannot try with the Bafang Ultra throttle because it uses a round connector.

 

[waynebergman]

Yes "xp67" I would think pluging into the existing yelo plug outlet will work for throttle if you have the correct main wire harness supplied . Look earlier in my thread on page two of this thread most of the way down the page,where it shows how I soldered the Luna half twist throttle to the plug that came with the trigger throtttle that was originally supplied. Perhaps order a new trigger throttle and a luna half twist and solder the plug from the trigger onto the half throttle and as long as the main harness is configured for throttle you should be good to go. I hope this helps.....wayne
Also for my bike this is what I needed for main harness and throttle plug parts

 

[xp67]

Thanks Wayne, I will try and splice a TSDZ2 thumb throttle to a female triangle plug and try it out. There is no additional battery cable to the yellow triangle connector unlike your Dengfu bike, just the black and red power cable. So, just to confirm again, it is female connector at the throttle and male connector at the CAN cable on the bike, correct?

 

[waynebergman]

Yes XP, female connector at the throttle and male connector at the CAN cable on the bike, let us know how it goes.....wayne

 

[ducky55]

Hopefully this isn't too redundant, by my Chinese deciphering ability is close to nil.
Would it be possible for somebody to confirm my assumptions (in red)?
Is there any chance that somebody has the pin-outs for the 8pin connector at the motor for the front cable?

Thanks in advance.

 

[RoyRoy]

OK another update, I switched back to my original controller as I was thinking it was not the source of my problems but in fact it was no good. Error 30 displays with my old controler and new flx display. I kind of assumed that my display was the source of all my problems but this was because the replacement LUna display was not compatable with the replacement FLX controler. Once I ordered a new display from FLX to match the FLX control my error 30 messages went away so I assumed it was the display all along but it was in fact the original controller that was toast. So long story short I am running the new controller and display from FLX. It works well in throttle mode but not so great on low power levels wtih the pedal assist. My work around will have to be if I am on flat ground on low power levels I will need to nurse the throttle to smooth things out as the throttle overides the jerkness of the pedal assist in all power levels. Not ideal but atleast I am back on the road and trail......wayne

Wow Wayne, what a roller coaster you have been on, at least you are up and going in the end, just a pity you dont have the smoothness of the original setup.

It’s crazy that you cant buy individual bits from Bafang. It’s baffling. It sounds like they dont bother keeping an inventory of spares for customers, but rather they push you to get a full kit? - which is insane!

To fix issues where a part has failed: (please correct me where needed)
Display issue: you need to make sure you get the same revision of the failed display or it wont work with the controller board.

Controller Board: There are 2 main revisions, denoted by a green and blue PCB. If you do happen to get a replacement you need to ensure you get the same revision in order to work with the rest of the bits

That fair to say? Does anyone know how manny revisions in each major version? E.e. 1.1, 1.2, 1.3 etc?

It seems there are a few re-sellers in Australia of the bafang kits, but I doubt they would have any individual parts to buy. It’s mind boggling, i just assumed it would be easy to get replacement parts, which is another reason i felt comfortable in getting a bike with the M600. Now i am worried because these boards and things wont last forever, and probably once you get to 2-4 years you are looking at potential problems.

 

[waynebergman]

Yes RoyRoy, as far as I know you need to make sure a replacement display is compatable with the controller you have and if you are needing a repplacement controller it needs to be compatable with the display you have. When the time comes make sure your supplier knows what will work with what before ordering any replacement parts. Regarding the different colored controllers I bought mine so early in the game I must be one of the few out there that needs the green colored board but not sure on this. I regret not following my own advise to others and that was to buy a full replacment motor at time of purchaseing the bike.
Hope this helps Roy. .......wayne