Wayne’s Dengfu Carbon Fibre FS 27.5” with Bafang M600 (throttle also)

[waynebergman]

I have ordered a new display from Luna Cycle with its handlebar remote switch in order to trouble shoot. I am doubtful that this will be the answer to my problems but at this point it seems like my only option. I inquired at Luna regarding purchasing a new controller and the information I got was very interesting.... Response in quotes below
"You cannot purchase an M600 controller because each controller has to be programmed to
the motor they're being paired to. "
Wow! - it seems then for those of us with the M600 drive,if any of our controllers fail us we have little choice but to buy a whole new motor? Curious if anyone has any kind of a work around for a controler failure on these M600 drives? Looking forward to hearing input from other M600 users. Also does anyone know of a Bafang rep or some way to get help from Bafang them selves. Denfu who I bought the bike and motor from is not answering my inquires so this is also a frustration at this point.
Worst case senero I will fab up a BB assembly, maybe out of aluminum complete with BB and just go human power with out the motor and battery. My old fat tire with HD1000 I hope will return to Canada for me this summer and I will ride the old fat tire for ebike duties and use the Dengfu as a reg human powered machine, OUCH.

 

[Kepler]

I think if I had a controller failure and there was no option for a new controller, I would just install a Vesc controller. Would need to run it sensorless but the Vesc works quite well sensorless. Also would need to make it throttle only. The Vesc would even fit in the motor cavity. Another issue might be that Vesc recommends 12S max however they are rated to 60V so 13S should be OK. at $60USD for a controller, worth the the 13S risk.

 

[Animalector]

I might try this at some stage. Time to buy a vesc

 

[amberwolf]

https://electricbike.com/forum/forum/ask-lunacycle/luna-cycle-new-products/102228-replacement-controller-for-the-m-600-motor

paxtana
paxtana
Administrator

Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 1800643
Location: Luna Lab

#2
02-25-2020, 12:55 AM
M600 controllers are not something anyone can just sell unfortunately. That is not how Bafang designed that particular system. Each controller has to be custom matched to work with that specific motor using a special piece of hardware and software that is password protected, of which the password is only provided by Bafang to dealers. If an M600 controller is connected to a motor it was not matched to, the motor will only run backwards.

This means that wherever you bought the bike that uses M600, you need to ship the bare motor back there in order to have that dealer do the work of swapping out the controller.

It seems like a remarkably durable system from our experience with it so far so hopefully getting a replacement controller will be a non-issue for most people, but you know, sometimes shit happens. Bearing that in mind it is critical that any bike you buy from using M600 should be from a company that provides good support, and is located within the same country you live. Shipping a bare motor internationally just to have the controller changed out would be expensive and time consuming, and if you bought China direct I doubt any Chinese sellers would even respond to such a request.

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=100777&p=1607936&hilit=controller#p1607936

Does anyone have a source to order just the controller for m600 motor?

Just the 510 https://california-ebike.com/product-category/parts/bafang-ultra/

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=100777&p=1597034&hilit=controller#p1597024

My motor won't even power up, ever. Is there a supplier that can sell the controller only?

Look on this site:
https://flx.bike/products/controller-dz-multi

 

[Kepler]

Re: Wayne’s Dengfu Carbon Fibre FS 27.5” with Bafang M600 (throttle also)
by Animalector » Jan 08 2021 2:23pm

I might try this at some stage. Time to buy a vesc

I buy from Flipsky. Very good service and quality Vesc builds. I use the the mini all the time for my friction drive builds.

https://flipsky.net/collections/ele...esc-widely-used-in-eskateboard-escooter-ebike

Also highly recommend you get the Bluetooth interface. You can then use the Vesc tool via your Android for programming and dashboard. It is Android only though.

https://flipsky.net/collections/acc...2-4g-wireless-module-nrf51822-onboard-ws82013

 

[Waynemarlow]

Worst case senero I will fab up a BB assembly, maybe out of aluminum complete with BB and just go human power with out the motor and battery. My old fat tire with HD1000 I hope will return to Canada for me this summer and I will ride the old fat tire for ebike duties and use the Dengfu as a reg human powered machine, OUCH.

Wayne, When I bought my E10 frame I couldn't purchase the M500 I wanted ( unavailable at the time ) and the M600 was going through some troubles with the plastic gear, with rumours of excess noise, I decided to,install a TSDZ2 engine I had laying around.

In its 48 / 52 volt guise and with the OSF firmware ( its all here in the Endless Sphere forum ) its a very capable engine at rediculously low prices and with wide availability of every spare you can think of. I don't think the quality is Bafang quality, but at about $ 300 all in for the engine, it maybe a get you out of trouble card. In true 2021 consumer ideology, its cheaper to chuck it and replace with a new one, however I'm old school and they are not at all difficult to repair.

The only downside is that its a bit of an engineering conundrum to get a good lightweight adaptor but all in my engine and adaptor is about the same weight as the M600, but with only 750W's. Now that the thinking side is done, if we could get someone interested with a CNC mill, it would be not particularly difficult to copy over the components of the adaptor.

 

[waynebergman]

Thanks everyone for the help. I did notice in one of the links Amberwolf sent https://flx.bike/products/controller-dz-multi it appears FLX in fact sells controllers. I should give FLX a call and see if in fact they sell replacement controllers and get their opinion on if in fact a user can instal a replacement controller. Looks like I have some home work to do for sure here. I will wait untlil my Luna order for a replacement display arrives and then if that does not help I will get moving on the project in more detail. Yesterday was one of those days that everything that could go wrong did so. Reports of termites in our unit for sale in Arizona, M600 controller not servicable and a long string of other bad bits of news. Could be worse however. I will post an update when my display arrives and thanks everyone for the ideas on M600 solutions. I am leaning toward the throttle only option the Kelper suggested and at this point I dont even care if an external controler is all duct taped to the frame old school style. I will feel better knowing I can get parts etc when I need them so maybe the little Vesc unit is worth looking into. I am guessing one would need to forgo the stock Bafang display etc?

 

[waynebergman]

sorry this is a duplicate post so I deleted its content

 

[waynebergman]

question please Kepler. The screen shot attached of the controler you speak off shows 8 wires what I assume to be 2 wires for battery, 3 for phase wires, and the three thiner wires I am wondering if this is for throttle? If this is the case then would one bypass all the bafang display, comport nonesense etc etc and just plug and play with these 8 wires? Conected to the stock bafang controler are a huge number of thin gauge white wires, man there are tons of them. Would one just disconect all wiring connectors from the stock bafang set up and simply use the 8 wires from the Vesc controller. If this is the case; and you have a throttle only with no speedo etc with simply just a power button on battery and throttle and you are good to go this may be a good work around and easy enough for me to understand and implement. Just not sure if I fully get the concept. Most of the DIY kits I have had in the past are kind of plug and play so a little unsure of how to tackle something like this for 3rd party controller. So far I like the sound of this however as it keeps things super simple and replaceable for things when they fail.

 

[patdam]

Why you do not ask to bafang directly before ?
https://www.facebook.com/BAFANGElectric/

 

[Kepler]

question please Kepler. The screen shot attached of the controler you speak off shows 8 wires what I assume to be 2 wires for battery, 3 for phase wires, and the three thiner wires I am wondering if this is for throttle?Screen Shot 2021-01-08 at 7.46.20 PM.jpg If this is the case then would one bypass all the bafang display, comport nonesense etc etc and just plug and play with these 8 wires? Conected to the stock bafang controler are a huge number of thin gauge white wires, man there are tons of them. Would one just disconect all wiring connectors from the stock bafang set up and simply use the 8 wires from the Vesc controller. If this is the case; and you have a throttle only with no speedo etc with simply just a power button on battery and throttle and you are good to go this may be a good work around and easy enough for me to understand and implement. Just not sure if I fully get the concept. Most of the DIY kits I have had in the past are kind of plug and play so a little unsure of how to tackle something like this for 3rd party controller. So far I like the sound of this however as it keeps things super simple and replaceable for things when they fail.

Hi Wayne. I have been playing around with Vesc's for so long, I forget there is a learning curve with how to set them up.

Vesc's are designed as a skateboard controller and as such the throttle input is typically done using a receiver coupled to a wireless handheld throttle. The input is a PWM input and as such you will need to use an interface to convert a throttle signal to PWM for the Vesc to accept. Two normal ways of doing this. Use a servo tester modified to take a hall throttle input. Or custom program an Arduino to convert a throttle Hall output to PWM.

I would recommend going down the Arduino path. Opens up many more options. If you have programming experience, then this is easy. However, if you don't, no problems, I can program and send you a pre programmed plug and play Ardunio ready to go. (I sell lots of these with my friction drives). I just charge $25 bucks to cover the cost of hardware and a bit of time.

The Vesc is then scaled to the PWM output from the Arduino which you will need to do. Vesc programming software has a wizard for this.

The other throttle option is to use the ADC input on the Vesc. This is a direct input from the throttle but its not my preferred method as it uses the same plug as the Bluetooth module. You can splice the 2 together but its a bit of a pain.

Hope that doesn't sound too daunting

 

[Grantmac]

Do you think an arduino could be programmed to read the onboard torque sensor?

 

[waynebergman]

Thanks for the detailed reply Kepler. I will reach out again to you when I know for sure I need a different controller solution. Still keeping my fingers crossed for a Bafang work around should that be even possible. The stock controller torque sensor feature is nice for sure so I guess I would miss that, also I have the Bafang half twist throttle response dialed in pretty good so some things would be missed if loosing the stock controller. Still waiting to here back from FLX as they offer on their web site a replacement controler for 80 bucks canadian,this link https://flx.bike/products/controller-dz-multi was from the link that Amberwolf sent . This is my first choice if in fact it will even work for a DIY instal.

Also thanks Patdam regarding the facebook link. I will follow up on that one but not overly optimistic. Any contact info I have had in the past that implied Bafang themselves are the contact, seemed to fall on deaf ears.

 

[patdam]

"Any contact info I have had in the past that implied Bafang themselves are the contact, seemed to fall on deaf ears."


Do not deseperate. if you do not have answer it is because you do not contact the right person (servicy). I have also tried to find an solution for a custom seeting of program and i finally had a answer, negative but the contact doing his best to help me. sorry to do not communicate the right contact, but i have deleted the exchange. As bafang have now several agencies around the world, it is pôssible that if you try to contact agency who have not directly saled your motor, they do not answer. But if you try with headquarter in china, they will answered.

 

[waynebergman]

Ok a bit of an update today. Just recieved the new display and on/off switch from Luna. Plugged it in and the display did in fact light up but very shortly after I got the error 30 message. So I am thinking both the display and the controller where shot. At least now I have a display that is coming to life and giving codes etc.

Now regarding the controller I was surprised to find on the FLX site the controller actually for sale for the M600 drive. I have purchased one from FLX and its on the way. Should be here by end of Jan as I am in Canada so keeping my fingers crossed. New info I have gotten from Marc the mechanic at FLX - he explains a bit of the whole pairing thing. Below in quotes and red text are comments explaining the different versions of controllers from Marc.

"They're 2 versions of the M600, each with they're respected controllers. What makes them different is that 1 will need to be re-calibrated to the new controller and the other does not. One clear indication is that the controller that requires a re-calibration has a blue PCB, yours is green. When installing the controller, be sure the crank position is the same from start to finish."

So because my PCB is green its sounds like I am good to go for a user to DIY instal which I am happy about. First time this has been explained to me in this way. My inquiries to Bafang got nowhere and Dengfu was also not replying to my questions so glad that FLX has stepped up to the plate to help me as I did not buy my bike from them so big thankyou to Marc from FLX and FLX Bikes. I will keep things updated as they progress.

 

[tsellers]

Very interesting, and good to know.

Given the intransigence of both Dengfu and Bafang to help, it makes you think that FLX must have some good stories to tell about how their journey to be able to supply controllers that will work for the M600 unfolded.

Thanks a lot for the update.

 

[waynebergman]

Update on error 30 messages. ....received the contorller from FLX today, super quick delivery considering crossing the boarder to Canada. Plugged it in but no go. Same error 30. Who knows it could be the connections and wiring harness from the motor to the display and maybe something to do with me moving the cranks after removing the controller before completing the instal of the new controller. I doubt this but who knows?

Also I want to update that Dengfu did in fact just today respond to my email from a month or so back. I am glad about this, apparently the email I used for my inquiry was an old contact so somehow it found someone that has reponded to me. I have asked for a price on sending a whole replacement motor complete with all the wiring harness etc , it would be nice to have a set of spare parts for trouble shooting also. I think at this point I have done all the trouble shooting I can at my mechanical level. I am fine to install new motor and new cable harness etc etc but to find out where this error 30 is really coming from is above my ablilities.

IF a new motor is too expensive I may convert to apple juice mode and pull the battery, harness a new BB assembly in an Aluminum body fitted to the 09 frame. I will still have a decent bike to pedal around on and skip the electric power until my HD1000 Skuma fat tire comes home from the dessert. With covid and the boarder issues that may be a while. Could be worse that is for sure but just wanting to update those that may be considering a M600 drive, its a great little system but buy two of all drive components at the time of purchase or buy a different bike from a local bike shop that will be able to service your bike for you.

 

[Grantmac]

The Lightest team are considering a drop in replacement for the M600. Would be perhaps a touch less torque and less weight. Also probably more reliable and efficient.

 

[Waynemarlow]

The Lightest team are considering a drop in replacement for the M600. Would be perhaps a touch less torque and less weight. Also probably more reliable and efficient.

Details ? could be an option.

 

[waynebergman]

HI Grantmac, not sure what "The Lightest team" means. Not familiar with this term or name. Did a google search and came up empty. Could you clairify what you are refering to and if it would bolt into a frame that is made specifically for the M600. Thanks for the input.......wayne

 

[Tom]

I'm assuming it's bikee's latest project: https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=103429

 

[Grantmac]

I'm assuming it's bikee's latest project: https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=103429

Yes exactly.
They are working on drop in chassis for a few factory bikes. I mentioned the M600 because it is the easiest to get a frame for.

 

[Sunburntwilly]

Hi Wayne. Love some direction from if you don't mind. Just about to pay for the Dengfu e10 CF FS with a M600 plus batt. Came across your post and have started to get cold feet. I have read 15 pages of this thread and I guess the only thing that bugs me is the M600 being a propriety system. So I guess what I want to know is would you do it again. Or what might you do different? I know this is a heavy question. Cheers very much Bob.

 

[waynebergman]

Hi Sunburnwillie, the bike is awesome and I would buy it but - no kidding I would order two motors, two batteries and all wiring harness for spares if you go the China route.Its still a good deal but like I have mentioned with the new blue PCB controllers you cannot replace stuff so get spares. Just my opinion.

 

[Sunburntwilly]

Thanks Wayne very much appreciate your input.