jkbrigman
10 kW
Seriously....what is it that makes a very efficient ebike?
We've got a unit of measure that works: watt-hours per unit distance, commonly expressed as Wh/mi or Wh/km. That's offers us an excellent starting point to define meaningful efficiency ranges for ebikes. However, the question remains: "What constitutes an efficient ebike, and what Wh range are we talking about?"
Under 25Wh/mi for an upright mountain bike?
Under 20Wh/mi for an upright road bike?
Under 15Wh/mi for an unfaired recumbent?
Under 13Wh/mi for a faired recumbent?
Note that these numbers are "rule of thumb" from threads here on E-S and from recumbent ebike personal experience. But just because this is what people typically experience, is this how it has to be? Can we do better? Can we see 20 mph on 200 watts or less?
The reason for the question is because there doesn't seem to be a recognizable definition (even a loose one) of measurement and expression of what an "efficient" ebike is. There are many statements which we on E-S have begun to accept as true, like:
- pedaling more improves efficiency (measured motor power consumption, not whole-system efficiency)
- tires with higher inflation pressure are more efficient
- running ebike motors cool and at lower wattages is more efficent
- little or no headwind is more efficent
- larger diameter wheels are (generally) more efficient
- full recumbents are (generally) more efficent
- speeds below 20mph are (generally) more efficient
- fairings (generally) contribute to efficiency
This is great. These ideas are a direct result of what E-S is all about: experimentation and collaboration. But I am still left with questions like:
1) Have I achieved the best possible efficiency with the bike I converted? (an unfaired SWB recumbent)
2) How thin and high pressure can I make the tires, and how much of an effect can I have on efficiency?
3) Can I expect any kind of performance improvement by lowering the weight of the bike and the drive system?
4) Is there any way to "rank" the effectiveness of modifications and thereby set a priority?
5) Are there limitations due to weight and incident wind that set a "best practical efficiency"?
I'm getting these ideas out on the table because we are seeing, more and more, threads about efficiency and range. One of the things you DO know if you have built an ebike and been on E-S, is that "Efficiency is King" if you want range out of your ebike. There's a point where it makes no sense to carry more LiPo: it becomes too heavy and too draggy. Why carry all that LiPo if you don't have to?
Here's an example of the questions I'd like to explore in this thread: A recumbent is more efficient than an upright bike.
Of course, we accept this as a true statement. I've experienced it myself - we all know that a "typical" ebike build on a recumbent can do 20mph on about 250W of power and 15-18Wh/mile, no pedaling. We all know that a "typical" upright bike can do 20mph on 350W (more varied with incident wind) and about 25Wh/mile.
But what more is there to know about this? Is the sum total of the difference always attributable to wind drag? Can an upright bike benefit from a fairing? And if so, what kind of fairing and by how much? Can a tailcone help on an upright as well as a recumbent? Do panniers change the equation any, and if so, how? Is one or the other design (upright vs. recumbent) more or less affected by added weight? Can I ever approach the efficiency of a recumbent with an upright bike?
Please Note: This is not a speculative thread, but a solicitation of measured data and experience. I've started it in the "E-Bike Technical" section in order to gather experienced technical theory tested by experience, not speculative opinion untested by experience. Minimum standard is a photo of a CA display and a photo of the bike in question, preferably at the time of data collection. Information on terrain and wind conditions as well. Datalogger information would be even better, and graphically interpreted logged data even more welcome.
Your Experienced Posts Welcomed!
We've got a unit of measure that works: watt-hours per unit distance, commonly expressed as Wh/mi or Wh/km. That's offers us an excellent starting point to define meaningful efficiency ranges for ebikes. However, the question remains: "What constitutes an efficient ebike, and what Wh range are we talking about?"
Under 25Wh/mi for an upright mountain bike?
Under 20Wh/mi for an upright road bike?
Under 15Wh/mi for an unfaired recumbent?
Under 13Wh/mi for a faired recumbent?
Note that these numbers are "rule of thumb" from threads here on E-S and from recumbent ebike personal experience. But just because this is what people typically experience, is this how it has to be? Can we do better? Can we see 20 mph on 200 watts or less?
The reason for the question is because there doesn't seem to be a recognizable definition (even a loose one) of measurement and expression of what an "efficient" ebike is. There are many statements which we on E-S have begun to accept as true, like:
- pedaling more improves efficiency (measured motor power consumption, not whole-system efficiency)
- tires with higher inflation pressure are more efficient
- running ebike motors cool and at lower wattages is more efficent
- little or no headwind is more efficent
- larger diameter wheels are (generally) more efficient
- full recumbents are (generally) more efficent
- speeds below 20mph are (generally) more efficient
- fairings (generally) contribute to efficiency
This is great. These ideas are a direct result of what E-S is all about: experimentation and collaboration. But I am still left with questions like:
1) Have I achieved the best possible efficiency with the bike I converted? (an unfaired SWB recumbent)
2) How thin and high pressure can I make the tires, and how much of an effect can I have on efficiency?
3) Can I expect any kind of performance improvement by lowering the weight of the bike and the drive system?
4) Is there any way to "rank" the effectiveness of modifications and thereby set a priority?
5) Are there limitations due to weight and incident wind that set a "best practical efficiency"?
I'm getting these ideas out on the table because we are seeing, more and more, threads about efficiency and range. One of the things you DO know if you have built an ebike and been on E-S, is that "Efficiency is King" if you want range out of your ebike. There's a point where it makes no sense to carry more LiPo: it becomes too heavy and too draggy. Why carry all that LiPo if you don't have to?
Here's an example of the questions I'd like to explore in this thread: A recumbent is more efficient than an upright bike.
Of course, we accept this as a true statement. I've experienced it myself - we all know that a "typical" ebike build on a recumbent can do 20mph on about 250W of power and 15-18Wh/mile, no pedaling. We all know that a "typical" upright bike can do 20mph on 350W (more varied with incident wind) and about 25Wh/mile.
But what more is there to know about this? Is the sum total of the difference always attributable to wind drag? Can an upright bike benefit from a fairing? And if so, what kind of fairing and by how much? Can a tailcone help on an upright as well as a recumbent? Do panniers change the equation any, and if so, how? Is one or the other design (upright vs. recumbent) more or less affected by added weight? Can I ever approach the efficiency of a recumbent with an upright bike?
Please Note: This is not a speculative thread, but a solicitation of measured data and experience. I've started it in the "E-Bike Technical" section in order to gather experienced technical theory tested by experience, not speculative opinion untested by experience. Minimum standard is a photo of a CA display and a photo of the bike in question, preferably at the time of data collection. Information on terrain and wind conditions as well. Datalogger information would be even better, and graphically interpreted logged data even more welcome.
Your Experienced Posts Welcomed!