Why are more of you DIYers not in the e-bike business?

[LockH]

Hehe... On a trip to Canadas wet coast (sp?) in a gas auto, in return and leaving the Rockies headed for Calgary... was amazed at the great gas mileage the car was getting (`77 Chevy Impala... the first year it was "down-sized")... FINALLY stopped for gas... and that's when we learned about the Chinook winds. Just about blew the door off the car. :lol: Anywhooo... I'd def. be interested in an assist riding a bike into THOSE winds. Sorta like the Dutch... where now one in four bikes have an assist. (See "wind mills")

 

[markz]

Here is my reason why I got out. People want you to make all the decisions, do all the leg work, tell them what to do to build a bike. Then they buy $30 in spokes after taking a few hours in time.


I ran an ebike business for 4 years, charged a premium for build time, and still lost money with hardly any overhead. What motor, what controller, etc.. sigh...

Im that guy.
If I was at your shop, I would have bought your spokes for $30 to support you. I know I could buy the exact same spokes for $13 off the internet, but I did take some of your time. The larger problem is that most bicycle parts are cheap. Bicycles are incredibly simple and parts are mass produced.
Today the quality of even the lowest tier parts exceed the requirements of casual riders... So why would anyone buy $500 parts from you when you can get a part that does the exact same for $35? to save a few ounces? for the brand name? no.
That is the death of all bike shops that dont have enough volume to appreciate the $30 sales.

While working with people always sucks, you have to realize that its not just them... You're trying to make a living selling cheap parts at high prices while everywhere else is flooded with the same or similar parts at far less.

MrDude_1 Yeah we are cheap skates, we want everything for nothing.

Waiting for Chalo's input

 

[johnrobholmes]

I wasn't just flipping cheap goods for triple the price of online though, that is a game that anybody could have done. Quality controllers, quality batteries, and handbuilt wheels that wouldn't immediately start breaking spokes. We were simply trying to sell quality kits and bikes instead of the cheap ebay parts that kept coming into the shop broken. Every single one of my kit bikes is still running today, only one had a freak motor failure due to a C clip coming undone inside the motor a few years after the sale. Being a "quality based" shop, we replaced that for the customer and she still rides today.

Of course the $2000-2500 price point 4 years ago was not well received, but it is pretty much accepted today. Once Currie got rid of the under $1000 bike lines the rest of the market followed suit.

 

[qwerkus]

The big issue - at least in europe - is that ebikes are consideration to be in integral vehicle. This means that only complete finished bikes, including battery and software can pass certification and thus be sold. Make a slight change, and you need a new certification. This is totally absurd, but it is the current state of the law, and basically makes a conversion based ebike business impossible. Even dedicated startup designing their own bikes have a hard time, so what we see is big companies flooding the market with bikes looking basically all the same because this type of design got certified. So called "ebike shops" can only do basic maintenance; anything touching the the electrical or electronical part of the bike is handled by the manufacturer. The only thing that still exists (aber from parts retail) are specialized small timer doing only cells replacement; anything else is either dead or illegal.
That beeing said, this situation has its benefits for the diy homebuilder. Whatever parts you use, if the bike you build in your garage looks like one of those "standart designs", and you don't fly with 50kmph over the street, nobody will ever stop you or ask any questions.

 

[neptronix]

Woah that's a worst case scenario and explains why we've heard from European members a lot less in recent years.

 

[BobBob]

Woah that's a worst case scenario and explains why we've heard from European members a lot less in recent years.

Yeah, the UK is not great for e-bikes, As I understand it (and I'm no expert):
250W maximum output and 15.5 MPH is the limit on Pedelecs in the UK. The UK does like to control things though sometimes with a light touch
UK licencing etc https://www.gov.uk/electric-bike-rules
Overview of other legistation https://www.ul.com/services/e-bikes-certification-ul-2849

Pedalled electric cycles over 250W are considered a moped which must be licenced as a motor vehicle, require a licence plate, indicators, must go through certification and annual checks and must be limited to 30 MPH. You must be over age 16, have a valid driving licence for mopeds, get the moped taxed and wear a full certified motorcycle helmet to ride it, and you can't then use it on cycle paths, footpaths or off road in parks, you have no right of way on bridleways in the countryside etc

Without pedals it's probably an electric motorbike, There are 8 different categories depending on power, number of wheels etc https://www.gov.uk/ride-motorcycle-moped/bike-categories-ages-and-licence-requirements but it's a more involved and different driving licence to operate it etc

Electric unicycles, scooters, hoverboards, one-wheels are generally only legal on private property though not uncommon, mainly ignored or "talked to" by the police but it's at the police's discression.

Electric scooters are being trialled in public but only legally through hire companies in certain locations. Use of a private scoter in a public area is illegal

The law is catching up but it takes a while. E-bike builders going into business will need to keep up with the changes to the law.

 

[Eastwood]

This is just a silly question. For most of us on here we have many different hobbies so we don’t just turn every hobby into a career. There’s a business side of things that has nothing to do if your mechanically inclined to put something together. Life is not always about making money and turning something into a business. Have fun with it and just enjoy side hobbies!

 

[qwerkus]

Woah that's a worst case scenario and explains why we've heard from European members a lot less in recent years.

Yeah - sucks. Last year I came up with a design for a modular ebike, which could have gone commercial. Well, the frame certification alone (without even actually welding a prototype) killed the entire thing, as it was impossible to have the same frame be certified for a mid drive and a hub motor. Without certification, no insurance. No insurance, no clients. As simple as that.

 

[markz]

Eric Hicks (Green Machine) from Luna Cycle started his e-bike business, he is a very great talker and a good salesman. I am sure he can sell ice to an Eskimo. Unfortunately he's been banned from Endless Sphere. On Google Maps you can even see a Tesla in the parking lot. You can watch his videos on Youtube, he has his own channel and done a few podcasts with various guests over the years.

 

[neptronix]

This is just a silly question. For most of us on here we have many different hobbies so we don’t just turn every hobby into a career. There’s a business side of things that has nothing to do if your mechanically inclined to put something together. Life is not always about making money and turning something into a business. Have fun with it and just enjoy side hobbies!

I see it that way too.

I've turned down pretty much every opportunity in the ebike DIY sales space offered to me, up to running a warehouse and division of a company. I never liked the idea of mixing business and pleasure.

I also know how hard it is to turn a buck in this space. You really need to know your shit. Most will lose money and few will really succeed.