Yesa battery real world test - by this forum

dirtdad

1 kW
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Mar 2, 2008
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309
Hi all

I have been selling Yesa batteries for a while now. They now make high discharge packs with 5C sustained / 8C burst rates. They make them in 10AH - 30AH, so the 30AH can do bursts of 240A, for example. These should be good for eTek applications, electric motorcycles or cars, or even big eBikes that use the X5 series motor that can handle those high amperages. Even on a smaller motor you will get the benefit of discharging way below the max rate and getting more cycles from the pack.

Or so Yesa says.

I can test them and Yesa can test them all day. But I dont expect anyone to take our word for it, and I don't want anyone to have to wait for someone else to be a guinea pig to see if these are for real. So here is what I am going to do.

I am sending a 48V 15AH pack out of my own stock (straight from Yesa, but I ponied up for it) to Doctor Bass at no cost to him. I will pay shipping both ways. I also added a single 10AH cell in hopes that the good Doctor wont take the pack apart (I can always hope). Doc will test the battery and the cell. He will post the results to this forum. He has no vested interest in the pack since he did not pay a Canadian dime for it. I want to make this as unbiased and credible as possible. Sort of like Consumer Reports (CR). Or as close to it as we can make it. Actually, CR buys their items on the open market to make sure the manufacturer does not rig the results. Yesa knows what is going on here, and they did test the pack first. But this test is as unbiased as I can make it, and way better than me hooking it up and taking a pic of my Cycle Analyst and saying how awesome it is, yada yada, yawn....

I do feel compelled to point out, in light of recent forum topics, that Yesa has delivered good warranty support to my customers. I have gotten replacement cells, BMSs and even complete packs as warranty replacements when needed. They deliver a steady stream of constantly improving product. They are not a small outfit waiting to receive their first order for 100 batteries before the even start putting out product. Yesa is planning a new factory in 2009 and plans to make other chemistries and a wider range of rates. I hope everyone appreciates our efforts to get the product evaluated by someone other than ourselves.

One last thing. Would anyone else be interested in a "try and buy" deal with the battery after Doc is done with it? I cannot afford to send it to anyone else for free. But I could do like a rental, where 100% of the rental would apply to the purchase, all the prices would be agreed to ahead of time. You can be sure the pack is solid, the factory tested it well. I am not sure it would make sense for anyone, but I thought I would at lease offer that option.
 
Hello Dirtdad,

I'm new to ebiking having just completed my first conversion and fairly new to this forum though it doesn't take much time to discover that Doctorbass' opinions are widely respected here.

As a person that is in the market for a battery upgrade in the near future, I have SLA now, I will say that I have seen the YESA batteries you have for sale but the PRICE is a big turn-off. Yes, yes I know you get what you pay for but it's hard to get past the $600 price tag for a 36V 10AH battery and $1000 for a 48V 10AH. Also the latter pack I think is a tad wide to fit in many rear trunk bags.

http://www.comcycle-usa.com/ProductInfo.aspx?id=4348344

http://www.comcycle-usa.com/ProductInfo.aspx?id=4891924


The long silver case battery packs you sell are closer to what I want to spend unfortunately they remind me of the packs GM peddles which from what I've read...well let's just say they lack a degree of quality control. Also once again the form factor is not what I personally am looking to buy. What I want is either a pack which will fit in my rear trunk bag for around $400 or less (36V 10AH) or which mounts on the frame like a Bionx or Crystalyte battery for say $500 or less. Granted this represents the low end of the hobbyist ebike market but since you were asking opinions I figured I give you mine.

I wish you success.

-R
 
Good idea sending a sample pack to Dr Bass for testing. We regular folks are afraid of paying big dollars for batteries and the cells not working properly after a couple years, or worse, the BMS tripping out and leaving us stranded.

This has not happened to me personnaly, i think most battery manufacturers are starting to make good BMS kits finally.

The battery industry has lied and deceived us E-bikers often in the past and frankly we're afraid to get burned .

The 48 volt, 15 AH is a good all-round size and range for my riding style but wonder about the dimentions.

Is it possible to get two 24volt 15amp batteries? One for each side of the frame/pannier. I know it's too early for custom sizes, but just wondering aloud.

Nice to see a distributer on this continent, best of luck.
 
I think that a few single cells just given to Doc for tests would be better than a whole battery being sent across large distances. More importantly than shipping costs though, he will feel more impartial to doing potentially damaging tests on the cells without feeling like he is destroying 1000$+ worth of cells.

And cell test results would reflect well the performance of a whole pack, exept for the BMS of course (which is a seperate issue anyways).

Maybe you should PM Doc about this thread and see what he thinks?
 
Yesa batteries, as well as your web store were already on my radar, but the Yesa prices gave me pause. I'll appreciate being able to associate a better defined value to them.
 
Great Idea. I take the Doc as gospel on the few occasions I actually understand it. The rest of the time, a thumbs up from him would be all I would need to trust a battery manufacturer. If I were ( I wish) building a bigger EV something like the yesa is what I would like, and the price is not unreasonable for a pack with such specifications. Tight money will keep me milking my 36v ping for at least another year but If I can cut enough driving out of my budget maybe next christmas.
 
Thanks for all the input, let me answer in no particular order.

These packs are not meant to compete with Ping packs. These are automotive grade packs and cells - or should be, hopefully the test will help determine that. If you have no need for the additional features of these packs then the price is not justified, of course. The differences are: discharge rate, case/construction, prismatic vs. polymer cells, more advanced BMS, aluminum CE/UL certified charger with switch and fuse.

These packs come in 6 sizes right now:

48V 10AH
Weight(kg): ~7.9 KG
Dimension(With Case): 280*169*108mm W*L*H

48V 15AH
Weight(kg): ~11.8 KG
Dimension(With Case): 296*173*168mm W*L*H

48V 30AH
Weight(kg): ~22.5 KG
Dimension 360*217*196mm W*L*H

36V 15AH
Weight(kg): 8.8 KG
Dimension(With Case): 218*169*168mm W*L*H

36V 10AH
Weight(kg): ~5.9 KG
Dimension(With Case): 220*169*108mm W*L*H

24V 15AH
Weight(kg): ~6.1 KG
Dimension(With Case): 170*145*168mm W*L*H

High discharge cells have some trade offs. They are slightly heavier, larger and more expensive than standard rate discharge cells. Even if all you need is 1-2C you still get the other benefits listed above and you use the battery way below its discharge rating and you will get more cycles from it.

Doc is getting one single cell 10AH to test also. As far as damage to the pack goes, I figure that is part of testing. It should be able to handle whatever Doc throws at it, I will take the risk that Doc knows how to handle a battery pack. If it fails, then we learn something. I encourage Doctor Bass to abuse the pack as he sees fit.
 
Great, you got the proper sizes also.

This will help the ebike community, Yesa, and your new buisiness if they test well.
 
I received the battery today.

They tried to delivered them yesterday but they had a problem because they only seen the top of trhe box wich show my exact adress but not the right name.. Boris S and not Stephan M (my name) so they called me to verify and i confirmed it was the right adress. When i received it I saw in big police letters My name and adress on the side of the box..! :roll:

They didn't saw it... UPS...

Anyway..

Let's begin the report!

The package i received did not look damaged and the box was properly packed.

pics to come! I need to quit for the dinner! this is now my turn to post pics of great meal ! :mrgreen:

Doc
 

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That burger looks disgustingly good, Doc!

I must add that the 'background ambiance' of the restaurant is also very appealing :wink: Such attractions might incite some of our US cousins here on ES want to visit Québec City some time... Hey, it looks like they even serve Boréal beer 'Chez Victor', so it's gotta be good food!

:lol:
 
I gotta say that I have loved my visits to French speaking Canada, and it was mostly for the food. I love their fusion of French and North American cuisine. In particular it is amazing what they can do with beef, cheese, mushrooms, etc.
 
First,

I would like to show you the OEM data i've found as reference on their website.

Please note that the items are
1x 48V 15Ah battery 6C max
1x 60.8V 3A charger
1x 3.3V 10Ah cell 8C max

Doc
 

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OK.. first observations

The pack have now stabilized to the ambiant temp si i feel free to manipulate it for test

I immediattely reconized the famous charger similar to Nexcell with fan and both led. seems nice fabrication and quality.

then.. My eyes oversized when i sat the large heavy 48V 15Ah battery! :shock: The construction seems nice hand made with white plastic covers assembleds with a 50A connector similar to Anderson connector for the output. They supply the wired plug to match it with 10AWG wires (4mm sqrt cooper)

Then i took it and while i've manipulated it to put it on my bench, the rotation of it maked me to hear something strange inside this white box... :?

When i move it i can hear a little part and few others smaller moving inside as i shake it :shock:

OK.. so maybe it's plastic part of the cover that stayed inside during the cut of the coverside for construction..?.. I would hope that instead of parts like mosfet or any other electronic parts...!

So i decided to connect the charger on it to see if it is charged or not. few second after i've power on the green led came ON indicating it is charged

ok.. now i've put the multimeter.. my calibrated Meterman 37XR.

And... I ovserved that the voltage just oscillate between 52.94V and 47.80V non stop...

Ok.. I guess maybe itMs the internal BMS that try to trig and detect load... :)

So i'll pu a load! if it is asking !!

I have a large 2.7ohms 1.2kW resistor... that should draw around 18A on it.. not as hard as it can do but that's 700W anyway!


Surprize... :? The output is also pulsating!!.. like this wave form..: _-_-___-_-___-_-___- at around 0.5Hz

very curious!!

So is it the moving free parts inside that could be some electronic component that just left the BMS?

I would likle to first Ask to Dirtdad if he would like that i investigate on it... like to open it to see what happen.

So i give you some pics .. waiting for updates

Doc
 

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"when i took it and while i've manipulated it to put it on my bench, the rotation of it maked me to hear something strange inside this white box...
When i move it i can hear a little part and few others smaller moving inside as i shake it "

I'm wondering if you're not hearing a foil battery pack inside that case with just a little bit too much room around it. Large capacity LiFePO4 cells (that I've seen) are mostly paralleled stacks of individual foil pack cells placed inside a case...
z.
 
Doc,

I will look into it. This is the start of Chinese New Year. I may not be able to get any answers until the first of February. Normally I would say measure pack output from the BMS vs directly off the pack, but we dont what to open the pack just yet anyway.

Perhaps you could test the single cell in the meantime.

As for foil pack cells, the pack does not use them. It uses prismatic cells with threaded posts like the individual cell in doc's pics.
 
The sound i hear seems more like a hard little piece and many smaller.. maybe like few tenth of gramm... like the plastic case of a mosfet or little resistor.. or maybe another part different than electronic.. but usually my hears are very precise and my acoustic knowledge is great.. it's like i can visualise it...

so.. I believe it's not foil moving inside or the entire cells moving with room between it and the white plastic... but more a very little piece of a size of an electronic component...

I took a video that i'll put here soon showing what happen if i just connect a 40W 120V lightbulb direct to the output + a DVM

Doc
 
Maybe a BMS error code? cause the pulsating is

not like _-_-_-_-

but more like _-_-___-_-___-_-


I discovered that the new 2nd gen BMS on those (after 20 nov 2008) use CPU instead of IC.. like they explain here:

http://www.yesa.com.cn/news.asp?class=4&id=39

This battery have no any exposed part of the BMS or LED so I guess this is maybe an error code like the ECU on some Honda cars with the check engine yellow light that flash shorts and long pulses to indicate different error codes...

Doc
 
dirtdad said:
As for foil pack cells, the pack does not use them. It uses prismatic cells with threaded posts like the individual cell in doc's pics.
Humm... isn't "prismatic cell" just another name for "foil pouch cell"? I thought that each of these square cells just uses paralleled foil pouches inside to achieve the square shape?
 
ZapPat said:
dirtdad said:
As for foil pack cells, the pack does not use them. It uses prismatic cells with threaded posts like the individual cell in doc's pics.
Humm... isn't "prismatic cell" just another name for "foil pouch cell"? I thought that each of these square cells just uses paralleled foil pouches inside to achieve the square shape?


... uh? Dirtdad, can i open one to see :lol:

i'm jocking!"
 
Here is the video showing that problem:
[youtube]Ch00jzDhAgw[/youtube]

Doc
 
Today, Sam asked me to re-test it with their own Anderson connector instead of my aligator grip.

I know that will be the same result since my aligators was well connected and just can't pulsate the current like that if they could be not connected correctly..

Anyway I know how to connect battery! 8) and..

I know that using the Anderson original connector couldn't change something.

My guess is still an electronic BMS problem.. Dont forget that the load (light bulb) flash two times per cycle at around 2sec interval... i'm pretty sure it's a kind of an error code...

Here is the second test with the original Anderson connector: (video will be availlable as soon as Youtube make it availlable)
[youtube]AoCg81KOmYM[/youtube]
Doc
 
Why not just open the box, diagnose the BMS pusating problem, and start cycling the batteries already. I'm waiting at the end of my chair everyday to just hear from your results. But the only thing you've done is changed a clip, :(

We want to buy some batteries before the summer comes round, i got the money honey, just want to know where to buy from. I'm leaning towards PSI, Yesa, and couple others.
 
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