Your Ebike; Likes and Dislikes-- an informal survey

[deardancer3]

Have been thinking about two of my ebikes and their pro's and con's. Was wondering if others do the same analysis?

Anyway, post your ebikes and analysis if you would like to share.

Guess I will go first.

Ebike 1: Cyclone 360w single chain drive, Headway Lith iron phos. screwtop 24v 20ah pack, Raleigh Gruv feet far forward frame.
Biggest Likes-- +++Range, ++power, ++hill climbing, +reliability, ++high top speed,
Biggest Dislikes-- Heavy, wide, short seat tube, no auto speed control yet,

Ebike 2 Giant turnkey Lafree Lite chain drive 24v NIMH, modified with 7 speed nexus internal hub
Biggest likes-- great range, extreme reliability, , auto pedal assist, size and weight- fits well
Biggest Dislikes--- no throttle, little low on power for loaded hills and higher speeds.

 

[def215]

Can I join in too?
So here is my setup:
BMX bike electric conversion, schwinn 333 hub, chain drive, 250 watt motor(rewounded), 24 volts, 7ah SLA's
pros:
light weight, small and nimble frame, quick enough for running around in the city, all around a fun machine
cons:
no range(obviously because of 7ah sla's), small wheels are no match for potholes, homemade drivetrain is a pain to upkeep, one-off custom fabricated parts are not easily availible

all I can think of for now.

 

[dogman dan]

I've been through a lot of builds as you know, and here's the latest one that I really like.

Giant OS 3 Full fspension 2005 model. Mods, Pannier rack, upgraded crankset, riser handlebars, street tires.

Motor EbikeKit front hub kit. ( 9 contintent w 22 amp controller)

Battery, pingbattery 36v 20 ah or 48v 15 ah.

The bike is very comfortable to ride a long distance, If I carry both batteries, I could make it 75 miles at low speed. The frame is strong, and handles the heavily loaded rear rack much better than previous bikes with cheap frames. The front hub is on alloy forks, but I have carefully fitted the motor and use two tourqe arms. Full suspension really helps me with the long fast commute I do, 15 miles each way daily. At 36v I get up hills nicely, but at 48v I seem to fly up 7% grades even when loaded down with cargo. The front hub helps the bike with balancing the load, making the too heavy rear a bit easier to tolerate.

If I could change anything, it would be the obvious choice, carry the battery in the frame, instead of on the back rack. Still looking for a good frame with lots of triangle space cheap. Eventually I'll just have to pay to get one.

 

[Drunkskunk]

These are my current two running Bikes.


Kona. 72V lipo, 4012/408 Clyte motor. 26"
Pro: Its dead silent. Its Stealthy. Its a full suspension DH with 8" of travel and balloon tires, and a spring seat so it floats like a cadillac over bumps, potholes, and even curbs. It will go anywhere. It carries its batteries in the frame. Its Orange
Con: Its heavy. Long travel suspension doesn't handle nearly as well as a non suspension bike. Clyte motors don't have the highest torque. Rear disk brake a constant source of trouble.

Junk Bike. 36V 9C motor 700c
Pro: Light. easy to ride. Reliable. plenty of torque. Its seamless, and rarely reminds the rider that it's not a normal bike. I lone this bike to friends.
Its Also Orange
Con: Inferon controller has Very non linier controll. Its relitivly boring.

 

[swbluto]

I have a c'lyte 407 mounted on a 26" rim. It used to be powered by a 48volt 10ah battery but I've since destroyed it, and my current batteries are 24 volts = boringly slow on a 407.

What I liked about it:

Good top speed on the flats. 27-30 mph was awesome.
Range: It theoretically could've had 16 miles range at full speed, though the battery had a bad cell in it limiting it to 70% of its nominal capacity.

What I didn't like about it:

Hill performance sucked. I had about a kw of input, but it couldn't go up anything above 5% incline by itself without generous assistance from moi and, even then, it was like 5 - 8 mph. I could pedal up the same hill at 4 mph (Though I'd be really tired at the top). Also, it couldn't tolerate hills larger than 300 feet or so because the motor would overheat.

What I use now:

I have an electric scooter, which I used because it was the easiest platform that I knew of to integrate an RC motor. The top speed is comparable to the bike, though I can't contribute to the work and so my range at that speed is a bit less than the bike (about 12 miles.). What I love about it is that it's hill climbing performance is *loads* better (Not to mention the platform is far lighter: my scooter is 22 pounds while the bike was 60-70 lbs - Makes a *huge* difference in portability and versatility). Since creating my simulator, it's easy to see why the crystalyte sucked so badly: It is so damn inefficient at low speeds and the wheel size puts a bad constraint on the motor's "gearing" such that it's not close to being as good as it could be.

The thing is is that the c'lyte motor would be inefficient at slow speeds: doing so would result in lots of heat. That heat increased the resistance of the motor which further decreased its speed. Since it was a pedal first controller, I was *forced* to contribute because it required at least 5-6 mph to keep the motor engaged.

 

[USAEBIKECO]

Likes have to be no gas needed, fun, quick method of transportation, convienence, freedom of travel. When you first ride one its like falling in love. It's been 2 years since i first rode one and i still have a blast, and have saved hundreds by not buying gas or riding the bus.

The only thing I dont like about ebikes is that no one knows what they are... People are curious and interested. Explaining everything about the bikes can take a while.

 

[deardancer3]

Interim summary, keep adding info as available;

Looks like weak Hill climbing/torque continues to be a signifincant issue so far, with three ebikes having this.
dis satisisfaction with human interface/controls also getting mentioned

Too Heavy mentioned twice, and reliabiltiy issues also twice.

Surprinsing so far, range a minor issue , same with top speed, No mention of Safety issues.

(Wonder how many folks are somewhat frustrated by battery enclosure/placement on kits and home builts?)

Anyone reading this should recognize that posters here are not at their first rodeo, so to speak. Lots of "Been there, done that, not making THAT mistake again.."

Party on Garth

d

 

[vanilla ice]

Pros: favorable legal status, still fun; smells gooder, quieter than robin/subaru.
Cons: but less power, range; or if not its expensiver.

 

[dogman dan]

Lots to dislike on some of my earlier ebikes. The 24v heinzmann motor that lasted 30 minuites at 36v comes to mind. My bad, I was told how to prevent it and ignored it. Duhh. Another melted one, lasted 400 miles. It's poor hill performance made it run too hot to survive in the hot of summer.

Poor range is not much problem if you can afford lithium. Affording it is the problem.

Hill performance is another thing since one guy's good is another guys crappy. I said I seem to fly up 7% grades. I define fly as 18-20 mph. To me that is pretty good hill climbing on something I'd pedal at 5 mph. Some of my other motors, at 36v, would climb that hill at about 12-15 mph. That's not bad, but for a direct drive motor, 15 mph up hills is about the minumum for not getting all hot. It is possible to climb hills slowly on direct drive bikes, by backing off the throttle and pedaling more. You can back off to 5 mph, and then by pedaling enough to go 6mph, lower the watts enough to keep a motor cooler. It's not all that efficient, but it does help you up the hill at a wattage that is sustainable for many miles. But I find it much preferable to fly up this particular hill with 48v at 18 mph, and climb it fast enough to have the time at high wattage short enough to not melt the motor. This works for my hill since it's about a mile and a half, and then it's flat. so the motor can cool off on the flat.

The only bike I've had without a battery placement problem was an EV global. I would not have sold that one exept for a family member wanting it. The difference is the frame was designed around the battery. You don't get that adding a kit to any bike made for pedaling. However, I find it easy enough to adjust to the different handling of a rear rack battery on the street. Dirt riding requires better handling, but I don't have trouble cornering with 20 pounds on a rear rack. 30 pounds there is a problem, but again, I can adjust to it. Some just can't make the adjustment, but I've ridden so many two wheel contraptions that I just find the edges of the performance envelope and stay inside it.

 

[pdf]

Setup: Stokemonkey, 36V, 15 A-Hr, installed on Xtracycle conversion of a Jamis Citizen 1.0.

Pros: Good hill climbing, range, hauling capacity, speed (for me), balance.

Cons: Expensive, more parts than a DD, stock derailleur not well-suited to longtail conversion so some slopply shifting on rear (could prob. fix with a better deraileur).

All in all, I really like this setup for my use. Would not be a smart use of money for everyone though.

 

[moostrodamus]

1st build was a $99 bike from Canadian tire with a 406 crystalye motor with a 20 amp controller and 36v of 12V sla's in the crystayle bag.
Pros: It was just sooooo neat to have an electric bike!

Cons: Limited range, broken rear rack(s), sidewalls of cheap tires popping out and tube wrapping around the rim, broken spokes, corroded contacts on battery from getting caught in the rain.

This bike went through several incarnations, Replaced batteries with 4X12V 14amp batteries bought from an electric scooter shop, bought a flinger type box to keep the batteries dry, silicon-ed all the contacts of the SLA's with clear tub sealer to prevent corrosion. Bought new rear rim and "armadillo" Kevlar rear tire, had the guys at work beef up my aluminum rear rack (Blackburn).


Pros: No more corroded contacts from wet battery bag, improved speed and range, no more tires popping off the rim.

Cons:HEAVY, disintegrating brakes from slowing down this beast when it rained, more broken spokes. 44lbs batteries had to be manhandled into the house if I wanted to charge inside. Bone jarring ride from no suspension

2nd build: Trek 820 front suspension MTB, Ping 48v, 20ah battery, Fairing, Roady crankset, Big apple tires, 2806 9C, upgraded brake pads.This bike has gone through a few changes, mostly trying new tires, changing from a 9C 2807 to a 2806, and putting the new crankset on.

Pros: Fast, can pedal even at top speed, more comfortable in a headwind because of fairing when it is cold, much smoother ride with front suspension,
Cons: I used my credit card to build it.

Now what? I am thinking alot about what Dogman says about a full suspension bike...will have to wait till next year though. It would be nice if someone (here?) came up with a full suspension frame that had room in the middle that would fit a box that could house a ping 48V 20ah battery...I would buy that....

 

[Rifle]

My 3 biggest dislikes are range, rain, and weight. Rain isn't too bad, should be more prepared for it this season, and that's a general bike complaint too.
Range should be improved to the point that I wouldn't have had to miss out on any rides like I did last year. I guess another thing is having to charge. Bike touring would be great, but having to charge makes it much less appealing/do-able.
But more range = more weight. Even without battery weigh, getting the bike up to a third floor apartment is almost not do-able w/ my bum legs.

Best thing is the speed. 28 mph is faster than I expected on a bike. Very fun. Also, getting around town only takes like 50% longer. Even when going places I use the freeway for in a car.

I find it easy enough to adjust to the different handling of a rear rack battery on the street. Dirt riding requires better handling, but I don't have trouble cornering with 20 pounds on a rear rack. 30 pounds there is a problem, but again, I can adjust to it. Some just can't make the adjustment, but I've ridden so many two wheel contraptions that I just find the edges of the performance envelope and stay inside it.

I have my 32lbs in a pannier off to one side. Sits so low doesn't seem to affect anything unless its rough or a speed bump. Will be adding 20lbs of battery to the other side soon for long trips thinking the handling should still be pretty good. But 50lbs on the top rack was terrible when not traveling at a decent pace.

 

[dogman dan]

I agree, that anything much more than 30 pounds on top of a rear rack is pretty intolerable. Personally, I carry a max of 15 pounds on top, and any more goes in panniers. When I load up for a tour, I carry two 15 pound pingbatteries and another 15 pounds of extra clothing, tools, food and water. So it's 45 pounds on the rear rack. Cheaper bikes had too much frame flex to handle that, but my new setup with an expensive MTB frame handles it well. I won't say it handles great like that, but I am able to tolerate riding with that load, at 20-25 mph.

Charging is an issue, but I can ride up to 70 miles at 14-15 mph with a 36v 20 ah and 48v 15 ah. With 5 amp chargers, I can recharge both in about 4 hrs. I expect to need a break at least that long after a 70 mile ride. A more likely use pattern would be to ride about 40 miles, charge for two hours, and then try for another 40 after the siesta. A couple hours of charging should extend range into the 100 mile area.

 

[monster]

my pros: fast and foldable/compact easy to transport, saved me tones of cash

cons: lots of maintenance is required, i'm always upgrading it.

 

[Demosthenes]

I set up my terrible old parts bike POS with a 2806 9C motor, 35A Infineon Controller and 36V 10Ah LiFePO4. All bought from Ebikes.ca. As you will see my pros vastly outweigh the cons and the cons are relatively minor things.

Pros
-Fast, especially when I hook up my little 12V battery in series for a boost. (50kph)
-Waterproof so far, I've ridden it in torrential rains and not had any problems.
-Lighter than SLA's, I can carry it up and down the stairs at work.
-Amazing technical support, Justin is a genius, I've been emailing back and forth and he has been a wealth of knowledge.
-Fun! I love to ride this bike, if I'm having a bad day I hop on the bike and go for a spin and it cheers me right up.

Cons
-Terrible POS bike, bad brakes that cannot be calibrated properly for some darn reason (I think part of the frame is bent)
-Spokes on the motor are a bit loose and rattle, an easy fix I'm sure, but I'm scared to do it.
-Some fried Andersons, but this was solved with an inrush current limiter.

 

[Zoot Katz]

The way the battery housing occupies most of the main triangle, EBII is difficult to lock up.
With the weight of the battery and X5 all at the rear of le Béte it's awkward to maneuver when off the bike.

Other than that I like everything else about the bikes.
They're very different from each other but both have satisfactory performance and reliability.

 

[John in CR]

My only dislike is that batteries need recharging. The nuclear powered vehicles I was promised as a kid haven't become a reality, so I'll put up with recharging.....for now.

John

 

[LI-ghtcycle]

First E-bike build, my dad's DD Amped Bikes kit:

Pro's:
Reliable, Fast (23 MPH in ideal conditions on good batteries at 36V), Rain resistant (No problems yet getting wet), Simple and easy to maintain.

Con's:
Too tail heavy (Rear wheel kit with 34lbs of SLA's!! fixed now with 36V Dewalts), Electrical connectors not the best quality, "cogging" of the DD motor (resistance felt while trying to pedal with out power due to the magnetic resistance to the motor spinning free)

Second E-bike Build, my rear geared Amped Bikes kit.

Pro's:
Reliable, (only trouble has been operator error, and one bad connector now repaired) Fast (25 MPH in ideal conditions no pedaling, 29 at 53V), Rain resistant (No problems while wet yet), Simple and easy to maintain. Only had some trouble with one connector (some odd plug that simply completed a circuit) nothing else other than my own additions not always working as planned

Con's:
Too limited of space in front triangle for desired batteries (fixed now with a larger steel frame), Too weak of frame (fixed now with steel frame) to use a seat-post mounted trailer/half bike with my 95lb nephew on back. Now that I have more room, need to buy more batteries! :wink: I am also discovering that having only 8 batteries (28v Dewalts wired 2s 4P) giving me 53V and 9.2 AH's has been insufficient for my use, I ALWAYS pedal to help, but it's just too much draw on too few batteries, and now my voltage drop is down to 51V under load. I should have stuck with the original plan of getting at least 4 additional batteries. I think now I will get 8 more and attach batteries both in and above the front triangle.

 

[amberwolf]

Ebike1: (DayGlo Avenger MkIb) Standard Columbia 21-speed Al-frame hardtail with front shocks, 26" Al wheels. Twin 4-pole axial-flux brushed radiator-fan pancake motor friction drive, using rollerskate wheels to rear tire tread center. Controller= heavily modified ScootNGo brushed controller, driving motors in parallel @36V, 3x 12V 12Ah SLA in various physical configurations from rear baskets to triangle mount.

Pros: practically free. Very simple construction. Reasonably decent balance with batteries in triangle, but really sucked before I moved them there. Decent range and speed before I killed the already well-used SLAs by overdischarging, overheating, and improperly charging them. Silent.

Cons: too heavy to lift, too heavy for any kickstands (broke multiple ones), can't use bus racks or light rail hangers. Skate wheels are too hard and slipped when tire was wet. Shafts of motors are too thin, can't really handle the stress of directly rolling on wheel--one eventually broke at the circlip groove inside the case. Poor torque (had to pedal to start going as motors couldn't really do it themselves very well). Uncomfortable regardless of saddle type (hate saddles). SLAs suck.


Ebike2: (CrazyBike2) Custom-built steel-frame semi-recumbent cargo bike; 24" steel wheels; 18 speeds. First a 300w-ish 2-pole then a 650w-ish 4-pole brushed powerchair motor w/gearbox driving the bike thru the regular chain drive, powered first by the modified ScootNGo controller from DGA, then a modified 2QD, and now a Curtis 1204-410. First ran on 24V, then raised to 36V, then 48V, First using 2x 12V 31Ah gel SLA from a powerchair, then using 3x and now 4x 12V 17Ah AGM SLA (from a server UPS), mounted in various configurations from rear cargo pods to center-frame-mounted.

Pros: Practically free. Very good balance at speed--faster you go the better it rides (unpowered at 40MPH downhill it's really nice). Excellent acceleration. No problems with startups even with heavy cargo; takes load off my knees entirely. Most comfy bike I've ever ridden. 80+ pound cargo capacity without diminishing acceleration much. Excellent learning experience. Charging is easy at 48V, using two 24V SLA chargers from powerchairs. @36V was harder but still ok, using Sorenson lab power supply (took a lot longer).

Cons: very complex construction. Far too heavy to lift, or even to ride without motor assist, really. Really hard to start from a stop without the motor assist. Bike style and weight both preclude using bus racks or light rail hangers. Motor powerful enough to destroy chainrings/etc. when alignment problems occur. Really hard to stop from high speeds--rim brakes simply insufficient. So heavy that potholes break rear wheels; needs rear suspension. Fairly noisy partly from chain drive and partly from gearbox. SLAs suck.


Ebike3: (DayGlo Avenger MkII) DGAmI with original motor system removed, and changed to a used front Fusin 36V geared hubmotor, Fusin controller, powered from a used 36V 9Ah Giant NiMH pack. Controller and battery mounted in rear left cargo pod.

Pros: Relatively inexpensive. Decent balance. Acceptable acceleration. Good speed. Charging relatively easy using current-limited Sorenson lab supplies. Good range. Very simple construction. Little pedalling is required to go anywhere I need to (but I prefer to pedal a lot, just not during starts from a stop due to bad knees). Can use on bus racks or light rail hangers if I need to go all the way across town without riding the whole way. Pretty quiet when at speed but fairly noisy during acceleration. NiMH is much better than SLA.

Cons: Charging is slow due to not having NiMH-specific charger, must watch temperature/voltage manually--takes at least overnight unless I sit right there and monitor it so I can turn up the current limit (safer to charge at 150mA and leave it till I have 1.5x Ah in vs pulled out). Still a little heavy but acceptable--can at least lift it easily. Front wheel loses traction at times with cargo in rear pod and on rear rack, especially at starts from intersections where I am pointing slightly uphill due to road design. Saddles still suck.

 

[USAEBIKECO]

wow thats a beast of a bike. Looks cool too. Well done!

supposed to be 65 and suny here in chicago. Lake front here i come.

 

[mr.electric]

I like my prima for going to lunch. I go about 1 mile each way. It is simple and effective. I am very pleased with the e bike-it kit. Thanks Justin

Cons- it has a lead pack. enough said


I like my BMC v3 from hi powered cycles for many reasons. It has a 10ah 48v pack that is similar to a ping but different. The battery and complete bicycle are sold through hi-powered cycles. It came with a 6 amp charger that is nice. It seems like it always charges to full in under one hour. The dual sus bike helps with all the power and speed the BMC 1000 watt motor produces. The disc brakes seem a bit over worked.

Cons- Regen brakes would save a lot of brake noise and feel more smooth.