40T cycle test

Batteries, Chargers, and Battery Management Systems.
goatman   10 MW

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40T cycle test

Post by goatman » May 31 2020 3:36pm

I will keep adding the test results every 50 cycles to this original post

40T
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capacity test

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cycle #1 results and settings

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discharge #50

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discharge 100

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discharge 149

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discharge 200

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discharge 300

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discharge 351

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discharge 400

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Last edited by goatman on Jul 06 2020 12:13am, edited 6 times in total.

goatman   10 MW

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Re: 40T cycle test

Post by goatman » May 31 2020 3:37pm

saved, Capacity at different lifecycle counts

original test before cycling

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after 126 cycles

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after 250 cycles

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after 375 cycles

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heres 126 but a wider view to get a better look at where the capacity loss is occurring

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wider 250

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wider 375

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Last edited by goatman on Jul 01 2020 7:51pm, edited 3 times in total.

goatman   10 MW

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Re: 40T cycle test

Post by goatman » May 31 2020 3:37pm

saved

goatman   10 MW

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Re: 40T cycle test

Post by goatman » May 31 2020 3:40pm

ive made changes to the charge settings to see if I can slow the degradation of the cell in, 1-7 of the new settings/ d-cc 2.50a to 3.2v

the change in fast charge settings seems to be working, when I first started cycling I was losing about 2.85mah/cycle, I continued to make slight changes and got to about losing 1.85mah/cycle. I didn't think the cell would last 300 cycles but with the new changes im losing 1 mah or less/cycle. I might make 750 cycles with 80% capacity now.

heres cycle 1 charge numbers 3156 mah , discharge #2 3191 mah

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heres cycle 49 charge numbers 3153mah, discharge #50 3189 mah

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heres cycle 54 charge numbers 3149mah, discharge #55 3185 mah

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#100 discharge capacity was 3176 mah

made more changes this is discharge #149, 3184 mah, yes it increased

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#200 charge 3091mah, discharge 3140mah

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#300 charge 3017mah, discharge 3055mah

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#351 charge 2994mah, discharge 3039mah

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#400 charge 2971mah, discharge 3016mah

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Last edited by goatman on Jul 06 2020 12:18am, edited 8 times in total.

goatman   10 MW

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Re: 40T cycle test

Post by goatman » Jun 04 2020 2:37pm

at cycle 95 I changed the discharge settings to make the battery run warmer, the weather cooled off and the room temperature was 69f, battery temp dropped to 71f for its low and the capacity was suffering so I increased amps, now battery temperatures remain steady between 90f and 75f and capacity is recovering.
it also seems if I can keep the start of charge temperature around 80f/81f I can maintain capacity loss to a minimum but at 82f/83f I start losing.

heres the battery temps at different stages

start of charge 80f
when 2amp charge switches to 3.75amps is 78f
when 3.75ap charge switches to cut-off amps 83f
end of charge 75f and start of discharge 75f
10amp to 7.5amp switch 85f
7.5amp to 5amp switch 90f
5amp to 1.5amp switch 88f
end of discharge 82f

the battery is performing almost too good. im at 3173 mah after 104 discharges. it started at 3191mah. that's only an 18mah loss after 104 cycles or 0.17mah/cycle. im going to do the 0.8amp discharge from 4.2v to 2.5v tomorrow to compare with the original test I performed before cycling to see the capacity and compare.

goatman   10 MW

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Re: 40T cycle test

Post by goatman » Jun 07 2020 3:06pm

I think capacity loss is from charging initially at 5amp

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heres a capacity test of a different 40T that I was playing with, at 7amp discharge from 4.2v to 3.0 volts the battery temperature would peak at 107f. I thought it was heat that was killing the capacity down around 3.4v to 3.2v but now I think it was the 5amp charge

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goatman   10 MW

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Re: 40T cycle test

Post by goatman » Jun 07 2020 8:33pm

i made some changes, I want keep atleast 50% of the cells discharge capacity being used at or above 7.5 amps. it raised peak battery temperature to 95f. then I gave the battery a 5 minute rest between charge/discharge/charge heres the new graph and numbers

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im testing the battery inside a closed cardboard box with a towel ontop to keep battery temperatures up. I don't open it up.
the other morning I noticed the discharge mah numbers were getting higher??? so I checked the battery temperature on my dmm and all the temperatures had increased by 5f.
I opened the box and the battery had slid up against the side of the cardboard box, just touching the cardboard increased battery temperature to 95f peak and improved the capacity available numbers.
I guess a ghost had moved my box

against cardboard
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I moved it back and temperatures dropped 5f and the capacity dropped again
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ill do another 4.2v to 2.5v capacity test at cycle 250

I noticed on the charts once I switched the rest time in between charge and discharge from 1 minute to 5 minutes, the at rest voltage dropped from 4.2v to 4.194v at 70 seconds then at 90 seconds it dropped to 4.191v and at 4m50s to 4.190 and discharge starts again at 5 minute mark.

999zip999   100 GW

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Re: 40T cycle test

Post by 999zip999 » Jun 08 2020 7:43am

I'm getting a pack 20s 6p triangle pack. 120 cells just paid. Now the waiting game.

goatman   10 MW

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Re: 40T cycle test

Post by goatman » Jun 08 2020 10:06am

999zip999 wrote:
Jun 08 2020 7:43am
I'm getting a pack 20s 6p triangle pack. 120 cells just paid. Now the waiting game.
how many amps is your controller?

999zip999   100 GW

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Re: 40T cycle test

Post by 999zip999 » Jun 08 2020 4:05pm

90amps powervelocity 18 get with a muxus 3,000 4t v3 or it fits my Kona kukapu triangle. So thinking of cyclone 3,000 or a lr long block frist gen so 7 yrs old or what motor you suggest ? Buying now as my muxus 150mm wouldn't fit frame. So the battery sould be extra large for it's needs plus copper series buss bars wrapped in nickle.
Ok 90amp BMS continuous and 180 amp peak.

goatman   10 MW

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Re: 40T cycle test

Post by goatman » Jun 08 2020 6:54pm

im just looking at running a phaserunner at 60 amps with 4p of 40T and a 15amp charger for fast 1 hour charging.
I was looking at the mxus v3 4t to go with it but the hs3540 that im running seems about the same on grins simulator only lighter. haven't decided which one yet. I like the silence of a DD

I bought a molicel p42a 21700 to test when im done this at same settings.

999zip999   100 GW

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Re: 40T cycle test

Post by 999zip999 » Jun 09 2020 8:06pm

Cycltye hubs I had a 3525 junk and a 3525 hanging in the rafters. It runs but it goes thump thump thump thump thump. You can come by a pick it up no shipping. Small trade.
Last edited by 999zip999 on Jun 13 2020 2:12pm, edited 1 time in total.

goatman   10 MW

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Re: 40T cycle test

Post by goatman » Jun 10 2020 1:37am

I made more changes to increase battery temperature, it was also rainy today so I turned on the furnace to warm up the house.

that increased the battery temperatures and the battery seemed to like it. heres the temperatures.
start of discharge 80f/26c, 10/7switch 94f/34c, 7.5/5 switch 100f/38c, 5/1.5 switch 97f/36c, end of discharge 89f/32c, start of charge 86f/30c, 2/3.75 switch 82f/28c, 3.75/cut off amp 90f/32c, end of charge 80f

after 100 cycles 3176 mah
after 149 cycles 3184mah

im trying to get the battery to run as close to 10 amps as I can without getting it too hot, im just going to let it cycle for awhile at these settings, its been putting out a steady number.

goatman   10 MW

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Re: 40T cycle test

Post by goatman » Jun 14 2020 5:27pm

the 200th cycle numbers are posted, I need to adjust the 1-d-cc and 2-d-cc voltages lower about 0.02v to raise peak temperatures to 100f to increase capacity again. peak temperature had dropped to 97f.

goatman   10 MW

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Re: 40T cycle test

Post by goatman » Jun 17 2020 10:30pm

house was warm last night and checked the battery, temp was at 104f peak and the capacity had dropped. I was running the cycle settings so the battery temp would peak at 100f and after a few cycles the capacity would level out with steady numbers. im going to change peak temperatures to 99f on cycle #231.
edit to add pictures.
never saw these glitches in the discharge chart before, but this is #231 with new settings for 99f

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goatman   10 MW

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Re: 40T cycle test

Post by goatman » Jun 20 2020 12:30pm

im doing the 4.2v-2.5v at 0.8 discharge test for 250 cycles thought id share the capacity at different voltages. battery temp is 73f
*edit* im going to add some numbers from cycle #375 for comparison

3.9v, 1012mah cycle #375
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3.8v, 1460mah
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3.6v, 2324mah
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#375-3.6v, 2299mah
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3.5v, 2712mah
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3.4v, 3043mah
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3.3v, 3144mah
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#375-3.3v, 3086mah
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3.2v, 3220mah
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#375-3.2v, 3166mah
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Last edited by goatman on Jul 01 2020 6:53pm, edited 1 time in total.

goatman   10 MW

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Re: 40T cycle test

Post by goatman » Jun 24 2020 12:54am

finished cycle #290 discharge 3062mah, charge 3023mah

discharge #2 was 3191mah, that's 95% after 290 cycles. you really cant go with the cycle numbers because its too easy to manipulate the capacity numbers with temperature and I have been, at cycle #149 I was using closer to the temperatures im using now and the capacity was 3184mah.

the 4.2vto2.5v capacity test will have to be the reference

im running the battery a little hotter where it peaks at 101/102f and only lose about 0.3mah/cycle right now

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goatman   10 MW

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Re: 40T cycle test

Post by goatman » Jun 25 2020 12:15am

the cycle time has been increasing and its the charge cycle that is taking longer. I might have to drop the charge amps so I can make the charge faster, might try 3.25amps

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I changed to 3.7a charge no real change except the curve

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tried 3.65

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3.85 is a little faster

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4.0, a little slower

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4.25a is faster,

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the charging mah was 5mah higher than the previous 5 cycles but the problem was the battery temperature at end of charge, it was 77f/78f and took 7 minutes for temp to reach 76f/75f. I need the battery cycle test to start at 75f/76f or else peak discharge temps get too high

3.82amps

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goatman   10 MW

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Re: 40T cycle test

Post by goatman » Jun 27 2020 1:06am

quite a bit more volt sag

#127
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#323
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I saw fully charged voltage had dropped to 3.184v, I put charge amps back to 3.75a from 3.82a
#330
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when cycling, normally start of discharge voltage is 4.191v, ive increased the 10amp discharge time, im still within peak temperatures, to speed up cycle time and will play with lower charge amps to see if I can increase the 4.191v at Start of discharge.

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tried 3.5a and 3.0a with no observable change to voltage or mah, tried 2.5amp charge and again, no change so put charge amps back to 3.75amps

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goatman   10 MW

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Re: 40T cycle test

Post by goatman » Jun 29 2020 9:08pm

#300 was 3055mah, discharge #351 was 3039mah. averaging a loss of 0.3mah/cycle

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goatman   10 MW

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Re: 40T cycle test

Post by goatman » Jul 01 2020 7:56pm

4.2v-2.5v capacity test is done after 375 cycles, 3818mah. 90% of initial 4216mah

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goatman   10 MW

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Re: 40T cycle test

Post by goatman » Jul 06 2020 12:30am

#400 discharge was 3016mah, #100 discharge was when i had figured out the charge/discharge settings and that was 3176mah.

the battery lost 160mah over the last 300 cycles.

going to put this test on hold after discharge #450 to test another cell

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Re: 40T cycle test

Post by Dak77 » Jul 06 2020 5:17am

nice. Not too shabby for such a high amp cell

goatman   10 MW

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Re: 40T cycle test

Post by goatman » Jul 06 2020 1:38pm

the cell was getting damaged by the 3.6amp charge and was losing about 2mah per cycle over the first 100 cycles until i switched to starting charge at 2amps and finishing with 3.75a-0.10c/o, you could see the damage at the 4.2-2.5 capacity chart at cycle 125 and then the damage stopped.

makes me think if you kept the charge to 2amps this cell would do 1000cycles. i had to change the 2a/3.75a switch to 3.62v because the cell still suffers loss where it was switching at 3.6v, that was 150/200? cycles ago and it needs to be moved again to 3.64v.

the other thing is temperature, max temp is about 102f and if you keep battery temp between 102f and 95f it gives its best consistent capacity.

im going to be testing a molicel p42a and mnke 26650 20amp 5000mah at the same settings.

goatman   10 MW

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Re: 40T cycle test

Post by goatman » Aug 06 2020 5:25pm

p42a and mnke liked longer wait times than the 40T, instead of 5minutes and 2minutes they like 30min and 5min so im trying these settings to compare mah loss per cycle

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battery has been sitting on the shelf for 30 days, voltage dropped by 0.07 volts, its last discharge was 3016mah. charged to 4.2v to start test

cycle #422 battery discharge starting voltage was 4.2v, #423 was 4.191v

#422 d-3040mah, c-2965mah
#423 d-3016mah, c-2975mah
#424 d-3021mah, c-2979mah
#425 d-3022mah, c-2981mah
#426 d-3024mah, c-2982mah
#427 d-3024mah, c-2982mah
#428 d-3023mah, c-2982mah
#429 d-3024mah, c-2983mah
#430 d-3021mah, c-2979mah- the box the battery is in was open and peak temp dropped. closed lid again
#431 d-3020mah, c-2979mah
#432 d-3021mah, c-2980mah
#433 d-3021mah, c-2980mah- aug7, 7pm done for now.

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