Idea collection for full suspension build

Help me out ES-Gurus!
So i just bought a used 2014 GIANT Reign SX for a bargain (600€ in almost new condition).


(hope the picture isn't too large)

Now I am on a search for ideas what to do with this beautiful bike.
Target power will be around 5kw (more is better ).

First decision I am already struggling with: Hub or mid drive?
I have used a HT3525 on my current build, however I am dissatisfied with the reliability of the halls, heat management (havent drilled it yet..) and (upgraded) phase wires with ground isolation.
I am aware of the distinct advantages of both, however I have some conflicting demands:
It needs to have serious climbing power, because around here theres lots of steep hills and mountains to explore on a bike. However, I do not like any kind of noises from the drive train, because thats the reason I'm going electric.
Another thing to consider is that I really don't have the resources to manufacture custom complex mechanical parts with a lathe/mill/etc.

Battery box mounting places
Even though its one hell of a work, I really would like to make a custom fiberglass box (boxes?) for the batteries, just because it looks so good and works so well on the bike.

Controller
I have an Adaptto Mini-e/Max-e in mind.

What else is there to consider going from hardtail to FS?
Any suggestions and ideas are welcome!

Edit: Failed to mention that the bike has a through axle, which would be a plus for the mid drive, as I don't have to cut it open and install proper dropouts/clamps.

Nice bike bro!!
I''m pretty much stuck on middrives, and although tangentdave's middrive kits aren't setup yet for more than 4kw, I'd be really tempted to try one for a really light and powerful build. I really wonder how that would compare with my heavier single speed mid.

The new mac also looks interesting- i'm surprised we don't have some pirate footage of it from interbike testrides!

Thanks dude.
The thing I'm concerned about with running so much power through the drivetrain, doesn't it wear down very fast? Can't imagine the sprockets and chain lasting very long under 4kw of power..
Whats your experience with that? I haven't really found conclusive results on ES about this.

Apart from the noise I'm very interested in a mid drive. Does anyone have a video where the sound is captured like in real life? Because when i can be heard from hundreds of meters away I can use a ICE to power my bike as well
We got enough mopeds around here that blow your eardrums out when they pass by on their stinky two strokes.

Got a link to the new mac DD?

I'm concerned about with running so much power through the drivetrain, doesn't it wear down very fast? Can't imagine the sprockets and chain lasting very long under 4kw of power...

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Once you get the system dialed in so that nothing is breaking, the chains and sprockets will (of course) wear out much faster than you are used to. However, for an off-road E-bike, many builders have found that the benefits of giving the motor the usage of several gears far outweighs the drawbacks of using a heavy hubmotor in the rear wheel.

Of course there is also the option of getting a Lightning Rods big block motor and running it as a one-speed which drives the left side of the rear wheel. There might still be accelerated wear on the drive sprocket and chainring (located on the rear wheel hub), but the #219 chain would definitely be very durable.

spinningmagnets said:

Once you get the system dialed in so that nothing is breaking, the chains and sprockets will (of course) wear out much faster than you are used to.

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So what replacement intervals do you mid drive guys have for your chains/sprockets? Just to get a feel for the cost, work etc.

Great bike. Mid drive could use a jack shaft just in front of the lower shock mount or move the lower shock mount just a bit and mount it behind it and may not need a tensioner at all. Left side Chain would clear the swing also most likely. I looked at a giant model with same kind of suspension setup and it put the virtual pivot right near the top of the chainring which would be very close to where you could easily mount the drive sprocket. Tie a wire or string to the axle and pop one of the shock mounts off and you can see / measure the chain growth at the various possible positions if you entertain a mid drive with a reduction stage. Great find.

I've read the thread on the tangent drive and it seems very interesting. It would eliminate the need for a seperate jack shaft between the front chainring and the motor, if I have read that correctly.
However, the bend in the downtube will cause the motor to be mounted very low, don't want to hit obstacles with it...

Maybe you could fit it inside the triangle? The kit's reversible like that by design. And for more power you can always drop on a 3220 instead of the stock 3210.

I think the shock reservoir would be in the way :/

Hmm, looked to me like the rear axle was a regular QR. If so, putting a large hub motor on it would be simple enough.

But to my mind, that bike would make a beautiful handling 750w mid drive. Not a flyweight motorcycle, if that is what you wanted though. But a custom bag or box would fit 500wh or more real nice in the frame, and then you'd have a great handling bike for singletracks.

In my area, I'm welcome on the MTB trails despite the no motor signs, as long as I am riding assist style. If I brought my faster rear hub flyweight motorcycle to the trails and started cutting ruts with my rear tire, I'd be kicked out of there if caught.

So that's my solution, low power on my best riding bike for singletracks shared with MTB's. Then my fast bike runs on dirt roads where any motorcycle or ATV is legal.

If you really want big power, there is always the option of limiting power for some rides. But big power means big battery, and that affects handling on very technical trail rides.

Sadly it is a through axle and not a QR, can't easily fit a rear hub axle into it without modifying and cutting the frame open. And since I got used to the power of my Adaptto Mini-E and up to 5kw on tap, its hard to imagine less power, although the low weight is a big plus.
I've ridden a friends 800w (peak) rear hub mountain bike, and it feels very weak where I can blast uphill on my bike with no effort.
Is the difference from hub to mid drive very much, at the same power?

Hi,

Nice bike, am a big fan of the Reign. Used to do a bit of mountain biking and these things are a blast on the single track and come into there own when the speed gets up. i own a 2011 myself. I've mounted my lipos on the inside of the downtube in angled aluminium using a lot of kevler felt to protect the down tube. Basically have protected the bike as best as possible with the option of removing it if need be. Once ive solved my acceleration problem (see topic in this sub forum) i'll post a picture. Nothing out of this world just simple and effective. I decided against a box but I was after a light weight / low capactiy setup. I just couldnt bare to mark or scratch the frame as they're a work of art - besides the paint where the nut from the hub bolts onto the dropouts . Best of luck.

Mike

Hey Mike,
It's just such a nice frame, i couldn't ever cut it open, the only thing i might have to do if I used a rear hub, is to modify the through axle so they are dropouts and I can fit a hub axle in there..
Maybe I can build adapters to fit onto the through axle holes/disk brake mounts?
That would probably screw up the whole rear geometry, and I would have to move the whole derailleur/brakes etc. as well...
My Idea was to make a box out of fiberglass and fix it on the frame with metal strips, just as I did with my current bike.
This saves the frame from any drilling/cutting/welding.

Maybe somebody can tell from experience how the weight from a heavy rear hub affects the suspension? I am coming from a rear hub hardtail, so any suspension is better than my current bike.

If your priority is steep tight hilly paths that your forced to come to near stops often, I would not go the hub motor route. The down tube shape makes something like a LR kit a bit of a challenge but would explore that further. Also the new 1kw BBS may be something you may enjoy and either would be a clean easy builds if you can tolerate the loss of a bit of ground clearance for jumping logs and big rocks. Messing with the rear will be a bunch of work and if you don't have machine tools a nightmare I would avoid.

MurderousFrog said:

Hey Mike,
It's just such a nice frame, i couldn't ever cut it open, the only thing i might have to do if I used a rear hub, is to modify the through axle so they are dropouts and I can fit a hub axle in there..
Maybe I can build adapters to fit onto the through axle holes/disk brake mounts?
That would probably screw up the whole rear geometry, and I would have to move the whole derailleur/brakes etc. as well...
My Idea was to make a box out of fiberglass and fix it on the frame with metal strips, just as I did with my current bike.
This saves the frame from any drilling/cutting/welding.

Maybe somebody can tell from experience how the weight from a heavy rear hub affects the suspension? I am coming from a rear hub hardtail, so any suspension is better than my current bike.

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Didn't realise this model has a through axel on the rear . Agreed with the post above it'll be a nightmare to do right!!! I do plenty of jumps - smallish/medium but with a 4.5kg geared hub and 2.8kg of lipos so it's balanced nice . ATF mid drive? He has a kit for the giant glory so I'm sure itll fit the reign. Digging that Nice coiled shock - checked out your other thread. Best of luck

Mike

MurderousFrog said:

I think the shock reservoir would be in the way :/

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Take some measurements and see!