First bike build.

I purchased a norco scrambler this week for my ebike. It has an aluminium frame. I looked at the store bought bikes and they looked very cheap in comparison when I told him what it was for he knocked off a lot it was 499.00+tax and I paid 400 out the door. Im installing a 5304 rear motor with disk brake and plan on using torque arms and maybe reinforcing the rear part of the frame. I want everything to look clean and am thinking some sort of scooter trunk for the batteries. I want to hide the wiring and make it look like a normal bike. I would appreciate any insight and what not to do's etc.. I will have over 2000.00 invested when im done. I have a 72v 48a controler coming from ebikes.ca with the 4110 mosfets. I will try to get everything from ebikes they are very nice to deal with. I ordered 2 low resistance tires and am going to use heavy duty tubes.

Sounds like you're on the right track to a good build. what batteries are you planning to use?

I will try to get lifepo4's from ebikes.ca. He just wants to make sure the bms will keep the cells balanced. I should hear from them this week hopefully, if not I will go with 2 36v nimh nexcell packs. I have about a 30km trip to work and would like a battery setup that can be charged quickly and last a long time. I don't see a problem using an aluminium frame as long as it has good torque arms.

If thats the case, I'd skip the hard scooter case, and get a triangle bag for in the frame. your bike will be tail heavy, putting the batteries in the frame will help keep it balanced better.

If thats not an option, I'd look for a regualr soft sided cycling bag for the back rack. hard case looks "too" diffrent, and if you're going for a clean look, might as well go for something that looks normal on a bike. Crystalyte makes a bag for SLA batteries that is basicly a short version of a normal rack bag. its about 6 inches tall with an expandable top compartment. it fits my batterys perfectly and looks stealth.

huskydave said:

I will try to get lifepo4's from ebikes.ca. He just wants to make sure the bms will keep the cells balanced. I should hear from them this week hopefully, if not I will go with 2 36v nimh nexcell packs. I have about a 30km trip to work and would like a battery setup that can be charged quickly and last a long time. I don't see a problem using an aluminium frame as long as it has good torque arms.

Click to expand...

I just bought two 20Ah 36V NiMH Nexcell packs from Justin, but I don't have my bike yet to try them out.

I'm planning on running mine in series @ 72V, but 40Ah at 36V would allow you to travel really far.

Let me know how it works out for you. I would like the lipo more for the fast charging capabilities and high continuous current draw but the extra ah on those nexcell packs makes them very attractive to me. I have not made up my mind where to mount the batteries and I will have to sort that out when I get the batteries.

Hi Huskydave,


do you have any pics f the bike?


Cheers

D

Ok here is where I am at. I have the motor analyst bike and controller. I have some work to do to figure out the disk brake location. The kit supplied is great and you can adjust the spacers and put the disk anywhere you like but the caliper needs 1/2" more than where your disk is and I only have 3/4" total to play with. The disk has to sit about 1/8" away from where the frame bends to work properly. I am thinking a bigger dia disk and I will make a new caliper bracket. but I have to think about it and see what I can come up with. I need to get the disk working and then I can focus on the torque arms. It is evident that a small freewheel is a must with this motor I have only 1 1/4 inch on that side to work with. I would rather have two or three higher speeds in the rear so I may just take the 7sp stock freewheel and face it to 1 1/4" wide in a lathe and thread it on the motor.










Here is the parts I have: controller modded by ebikes, disk brake and threaded adapter plate and three spacers along with the wiring.
http://s174.photobucket.com/albums/w120/davidbrennan4/?action=view&current=IMG_2034.jpg

Pic of the bike.
http://s174.photobucket.com/albums/w120/davidbrennan4/?action=view&current=IMG_2030.jpg

Hub sitting in frame.
http://s174.photobucket.com/albums/w120/davidbrennan4/?action=view&current=IMG_2029.jpg

Freewheel side.

http://s174.photobucket.com/albums/w120/davidbrennan4/?action=view&current=IMG_2031.jpg

Here is a major problem the disk brake won't work because of how large this motor is I need to mod it somehow.
http://s174.photobucket.com/albums/w120/davidbrennan4/?action=view&current=IMG_2032.jpg

Steveo flipped his wheel over and was able to get it to fit.

X-lite 5304 Disk brake fix...

Greg

Ok that is the only way It will work with my frame but I don't have a reverse switch or a key switch just an on/off switch on the controller. What do I need to do to get it to turn in reverse?

Did some digging and found this in case anyone else needs to do it.

Crystalyte changed to a new circuit design with these
> > 72V controllers. You can indeed still reverse the direction, by
> > opening it up, removing the circuitboard, and shorting the pad
> > labelled DSP to ground.

I'd consult Justin at ebikes.ca on that one.

That info came from justin in another thread the only other way to do it is to reverse the phase wires and hall effect wires. I will talk to him today and see what I can do.

Ok I ordered the 36v lithium packs twist throttle two chargers a five sp freewheel and enough battery ends to make up a series and a parellel connection to the batts all ordered from ebikes. I asked about running in reverse and he is going to email me the data. I think im going to just install a vee brake system and that way I can have the 5sp freewheel but we will see.

If your front discs are good ones, you'll be fine. You can use the motor as an extremely effective brake, especially at high speeds. There are threads on the subject in the technical forum. You'll need your torque arm to be able to secure the axle in both directions for that, in case you want to investigate that.

Regarding 36v versus 72v, remember you'll have the same range either way. You still have the same total watt-hours, and there is no practical efficiency difference.

Good choices on the parts and the seller. I cannot recommend them enough.

I'll echo what was said on battery placement. If you have the open front triangle, use it!

With a hardtail, you might find it worthwhile to invest in a suspended seatpost.

Looks like everything major is as it should be. If you ever have any questions, feel free to ask.

If you can run V brakes then I would use Shimano XT (the XTR costs much more and are lighter but not as sturdy as the steel XT) If the 'motor brake' refered to by Lazarus is 'Fetcher's Regen' in the tech threads it is a new invention that has yet to be used or proven -- great idea but in embryonic beta stage as far as I know.

Keep us posted on the whole project with pics and the Lithium packs please.

I'm referring to both regenerative and plug braking, but mostly the latter. Shorting the motor windings through a resistive coil is far from untested, my friend. Many folks here are using 'em. In the same thread, the regenerative setup is embryonic, and not tested. I'm going to guinea pig that myself when I get back on the road, but... another thread. Another thread.

Plug brakes work. No mystery involved ... short the outer two lines on the three pronged green anderson connector coming out of the hub with a coil of wire. Less coil equals more extreme braking.

As for the freewheel ... I have not used the tall gears on my 'bent since I got it powered up. No need of them. If going to a single speed will help you mount the brake disks, consider it.

kbarrett said:

More coil equals more extreme braking.

Click to expand...

Other way around. Less resistance in the coil means more braking. Unless you mean how much power the coil can dissipate?

Link said:

kbarrett said:

More coil equals more extreme braking.

Click to expand...

Other way around. Less resistance in the coil means more braking. Unless you mean how much power the coil can dissipate?

Click to expand...

Ooops. I'll edit my post in case someone does a search later ... dangerous advice needs to go.

Update: I purchased a rear rack and setup the lights back red blinker and small led headlight. I bought downhill tubes but they are super wide and I am worried they won't work. The bikeshop only recieved one tire so I am using the stock tubes/tires for now. I bought two 10mm wrenches and will fabricate two torque arms this week. I should get my batteries tomorrow 2x36v lifepo4 packs from ebikes my 5sp freewheel and the throttle. I ordered 2 chargers and I will figure out where to put the batts and controller/chargers when I get to see what I am dealing with. There is no clearance for the diskbrake unless I mount the wheel backwards the problem is the frame tapers inward and there is no way to get the caliper to work otherwise as the hub is too close to the caliper. I am going to just use the front disk for now and I had them measure a 5sp freewheel it will work fine. I am thinking two nuts on each side of the dropouts with the torque arms secured to the axle and frame are the best way to avoid a failure. If I connect the batts in series will I need a diode for the bms? I might have to call them to get that answer. I will post more pics tomorrow. Im over $3000 so far but I did not want to have to rebuy components and I want the extra power/speed only the x5 series can deliver. I can't mount vbrakes unless I drill and tap the frame so the rear brake setup is still in the air. Thanks in advance for your help guys Im in it up to my eyeballs now lol.

Hang in there Dave, it's a great project. It's kinda like the Wright Bros building their first plane. Actually we have it much easier as they hand made all parts and we only need to assemble components. At any rate it is cutting edge inventing and you can tell your grand kids about it. They will be able to buy a much better ebike off the shelf in the future and your story will sound like 'when I was a boy we had to walk 20 miles to school and build our own ebikes...'

Can you tell us the specs, waranty and price of your Lithium packs? Remember you can test your bike at 36 volts to shake it down before going balistic at 72v.

Good luck and please keep us updated.

well the price on the packs was $700 each. Warranty im not sure but after many hours of reading I knew I wanted lithium polimer batteries and after finding out about each supplier from people who bought batteries I knew I wanted a quality cell and wanted to make sure the cells are charged and most importantly balanced when they are charged. It sounds like a lot of money but if I can get even 1000 cycles that will end up paying it off in the end and I can reap the benifits of the lithium batteries. I like the guys at ebikes and they are very helpful the biggest plus for me was the 40amp continuous rating and I will have 12ah but that translates into a lot more range when your motor can suck that exta amperage for longer. I have a feeling this bike is going to fly I can lift the frame with two fingers without the hub in it. Pics comming later today.

Well I recieved the batteries today and bought a plactic toolbox for the rear rack. The batteries weigh 30 pounds. I had to put two extra aluminum straps on the rack to take the weight. First ride 36v I was getting a feel for it and it accelerated smoothly and does 40km/h in about 9 seconds. I did not even try to adjust cycle analist. Second ride 72v it inatantly wheelied and almost flipped over I only weigh 135 pounds and all the weight on the back is not good. My rack is too weak it wobbles side to side and I need some foam for the toolbox as well. I hit 72kmh in about 9 seconds. This is scary and the handling is not the best. I rode it up to the mall and was trying to do controlled wheelies. I did 6-7 and then The hubaxle spun. I had two 10mm wrenches on each side and had them hose clamped to the rack and the frame and the torque still forced the wrenches up and I now need to rewire the motor. I am hoping that I did not do too much damage but I now need to rewire the motor and I "need" a machined torque arm made of steel for each side and I cannot mash the throttle from a dead stop at 72v anymore it is too hard on everything. Oh my packs read 40v each on aylist so I am technicly running 80v it fluctuates between 74-81v. Oh and I can't pedal this thing it is like pedaling with the brake on there is a tonne of resistance because of the magnets and I had to push it 5km and I could barely pedal it even in lowest gear.

Damn. Very suprised to hear the wrenches popped on ya. I never would have expected that.

All racers spend time in the pits. Welcome.