Help choosing a kit for 36mph+

consumer-unit

consumer-unit

10 mW
Joined
Apr 2, 2014
Messages
28
Greetings from England.

My first post so here's a little info about me. I have had experience with petrol bicycles and electric bicycles before. I modified an electric bike as it was given to me with a broken controller; it was a 250w 24v SLA bike, I modified it to 48v. didn't last five minutes though. :lol: The petrol bike was a 80cc (66cc) kit, got rid of it because it was noisy ect ect.

Anyway I'm looking for a kit that could give me 36mph+ I would like a hub motor as I would imagine they are generally more reliable, discreet and quiet. I want about 15+ miles range, I'm keen on using lifepo4. I'd be converting a Claudbutler, I forget what the model is but its a 26 incher well built, aliminium frame, the brakes are fantastic as they are hydraulic disc. I weigh about 80KG (176lbs), my total budget will be max: £1250 (2079USD).
EDIT: model is a Claud Butler Cape Wrath D27

Hope you can help me out.

Cheers,
Alex.
 
Hi Alex, there are lots of places you can order parts from but very few suppliers here in the uk. I have bought motors controllers and cycle analysts from Justin at ebikes.ca http://www.ebikes.ca/
Batteries, I have either built my own packs from Hobby king lipo, they have a uk warehouse now! or ordered Lifepo4 packs from Ping which have been brilliant, good service and products, their packs meet their claims!
Elipse bikes in the uk stock the Cyclone kits, I have used one of these and was pleased with it, a little noisy compared to a hub motor but for a modest kit it worked well.

http://eclipsebikes.com/

http://www.pingbattery.com/servlet/StoreFront

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_customerAuthenticateForm.asp?redirect=&idProduct=

If ordering from Hobby King make sure you have selected the UK warehouse, being in the UK does not automatically place your order there! The uk prices are slightly higher but no import duty or vat to add!

Where abouts in Derby are you?
 
EM3ev is a very good reliable seller that ships from china. Grin cyclery is the best kit vendor in the world, but is not located in china so he has higher overhead. The Crystalyte dd motor he sells would work for you very well.

36 mph is quite possible, but I would recommend that you either A get a larger direct drive hubmotor, or B, get a similar hubmotor to that sold at EM3ev, and limit yourself to cruising at 30 mph for a 15 mile run.

You will need at least a 72v 30 amps controller, for speeds in the 35mph range, 40 amps for 40 mph max speed.

If you go for 40 amps, limit wide open throttle rides to about 10 miles, if you buy the muxus dd motor.

The battery is a tough one. A123 lifepo4 would work, but the pouch cells are no longer common, and counterfeits abound.

For that kind of hot rod ebike, many of us risk fire, and use the RC batteries.
 
Thanks for the replies,

I've had a good look around all the website you both provided. I'm really unsure about what to get; I don't really like the idea of putting 30 odd amps @ 72V through a 500W motor because there are some big hills in my commute. I'm unsure about mid drive kits, I would imagine it eats away at the derailleur and cassette? Though I like the idea of multiple gear ratios.

I'm not fussed about noise too much, from what I've heard on youtube the cyclone/mid drive kits sound really good while going through the gears. I understand the risks with li-po are quite high if overdischarged/overcharged although they have a good wh per kg. I would be riding the bike to work (about 10miles total) and on pleasure rides. In reality though my ideal cruise speed would be around 30+mph but 40mph bursts would be great.

Tench, I am near the Marketon/Esso roundabout.
Thank you both for your help and suggestions.
 
A 1000w kit can do 30mph crusing, but can burst pass 40mph+ as well. My motor is rated for 1000w and can cruise at 30mph for 10miles at 20amps easily, but I can burst past 40mph for a few minutes but the motor will heat up rapidly.

[youtube]OMq6ZZJIfZU[/youtube]
 
consumer-unit said:
Thanks for the replies,

Tench, I am near the Marketon/Esso roundabout.
Thank you both for your help and suggestions.
Click to expand...

I am only a stones throw away then, you can tell cos all the windows are broken!

I am Near the Markeaton pub in Allestree.

I have a cromotor going spare if you want to build something wild!

Where do you commute to?

Have a look at my previous builds in the links in my posts, if you need any help just ask. You really need to have a good look around on here to try and help you decide what would be right for you, then tell us what your thoughts are to get some advice to fine tune all the parts to help you create a balanced setup that will work well together. There are far too many options for someone to say you should have this this and this. Narrow it down a bit with some research then we can help you put a good system together.
 
The cheap 28mm motor in typical direct drive kits melts when you run it 40 mph, but it takes 10 miles.

As for the hills, well, it just all depends on the hill and it's length. Stock kits easily get up 3 mile long 8% grades, but do it better at 48v. I did not include 72v tests when I did my motor melt off years ago. But if a hill is less than a mile long, and your 72v bike is going up it faster than 25 mph, you won't be having any problems.

If you were wanting to climb very steep hills but not wanting more than 30 mph, then a slower winding motor on 72v works very very well.

But, you want fast, so I think you would be happiest with a monster motor, one you can flog to your hearts content.
 
Well I've been looking at batteries and it seems that whichever route I take I'm going to be using 72v I was thinking of using 10 7.4v li-po cells or perhaps 2 of these in series:

If I could achieve the same performance as shown in evolutiongts's video I'd be more than pleased.
I'm thinking of getting a cheap 1500w 48v rear hub from alibaba and running it with this controller @72v

Tench, I've been looking around the forum since before I registered; I've looked at your builds both of which are very impressive, especially the 2nd one. I may consider the cromotor, is it fitted to a rim? I sometimes commute to the far end of friar gate other times to the pride park roundhouse collage.

Forgot to add I'm not 100% bone idle :lol: and don't mind peddling sometimes.

Thank you all for your info and help.
 
So I've been looking at batteries and I'm thinking these will be best
either 10 of these or these.
What do you guys think? is "nano-tech" any good or just a marketing pun?
I understand 10x7.4v is going to produce 74v is this suitable for a 72v controller?
What do you think about my setup with the 1500w 48v motor and the 72v controller?
Also how would I go about charging all 10 of batteries at a time?

Any advise appreciated,
Cheers.
 
Re the motor link, 145mm wide axle, that seems to be one of the larger motors I was talking about. Regular bike width is 135 mm, so you have some welding to do on a steel frame, or need a bike with bolt on droputs. Worth the effort I'd say.

Battery discussion is another story. Hauling ass, for 15 miles, you will be packing a dang huge battery. At least 15 ah. That means you will be able to get away with cheaper 20c packs if you like. You must run them at 5c or less though, they sag bad at 10c. But 15 ah at 5 c is 75 amps. So the cheap RC packs will do. For some reason, the 4s packs seem to be the cheapest per wh.
 
Thanks for your advise.

I'm thinking 10 of these for my battery pack giving me 16ah @ 74v.
You pointed out the bike may need modification because its a 145mm wide axle, that may be and issue as the bike is aliminium, I don't have the facility's to weld ali so I may end up getting a steel frame.
 
There are lots of motors you can choose that will fit into your 135mm frame without modification, except for the addition of torque arms but you would need these with any frame not just an alloy one.
With that size wheel and 72v I would suggest a slow wind motor, it will be plenty fast enough in a wheel that big but will take off better and climb better.

What about the Crystalyte HT3525, one of the few motors I have had experience of and would be great for this voltage and wheel size. On that voltage with a 40a controller it will put out 3kw.
 
The upper limit for most 72V controllers is 100V. That's the maximum voltage rating of the electronic components they're typically made with. A few controlls may be programmed to cut off at a lesser voltage as a safety feature so worth checking when you finalise your battery choice (so you know the maximum voltage you will see).
 
This will get you what you want and a lot more. Free shipping to UK. Don't know your duty structure. Probably your best buy with this kind of power.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/3000W-100KM-Hour-Electric-Motorcycle-Motor-Extreme-power-and-Extreme-speed-/390799423711
A cheap 48V 1000W hub motor on 15s lipo would get you close too, but is best cruised under 35mph. On 24s (88.8V) I cna go over 40mph, but I'm sure it would overheat after not too many miles. I never go over 35mph for many miles. If you want to cruise at 40mph or more, then a 1000W motor just won't cut it for the long haul. Anything 2000W (rated, not peak) or higher should work fine.
 
I had a look at the 3000w 100kph jobby but it would require a DH bike which would cost about £450 as its a DH wheel. Sadly with all parts that would be out of my budget.
I am certainly thinking about the Crystalyte HT3525, as it would be a straight drop into my bike (I think) and would be within my budget.
So far this is what I have came up with:
£370 Crystalyte HT3525
£390 Battery 16ah 74v (10x 14.8v 8000mah li-po)
£29 controller 72v 45a
=total £789 (budget is £1250 max)
Obviously I'll still need more bits including a charging system, cycle analyst ect.
Would the HT3525 definitely give me 36+mph @74v? it states "Max speed : 25km/h @36V-26" rim" would 72v be 3x 25km/h?

Thanks for your help
 
None of the 35xx clyte motors will cruise above 36mph for long without overheating. look at the 40xx series if want a clyte, but they'll probably cost you more than the 3000W kit. If you could live with ~30mph cruise speed, then any of the 48V 1000W kits would work.
 
What about the Crystalyte H4065 with this controller
Although it costs more than the 3000w kit the overall cost would be less as I wouldn't need to buy a downhill bike.
Can anyone recommend a cycle analyst?

Thanks.
 
40 = 40mm magnet width. 65 = 65kph max speed on 72V battery pack. The 24fet controller is overkill @80A, but it would certainly work as long as you don't throw 8KW to the motor for long. BTW, you don't need a DH bike for the 300W motor. Just file your dropouts 1mm on each side or file the axle 1mm on each side or split the difference. You should use torque plates anyway with either of these if you have aluminum dropouts, and wouldn't hurt even if you have steel dropouts with these motors.
 
So many motors, I only really know the 28mm types. Looking at one ad for that clyte motor, it says you can get a 3 speed freewheel on it, and still fit 135mm width. Looks like the top speed is about what you want in 72v. Looks like a good choice to me, without going to a 50 mph monster motor.
 
This is what I've come up with after research:
£670 for clyte 4065, cycle analyst from crystalyte-europe, inc shipping.
£180 for 88v 10ah pack x12 14.8v 5000mah 20c from hobbyking, inc shipping.
£145 for Lyen 18FET low RDS controller with twist grip, usb, excluding shipping.
£Unknown for charger balance charger assy.
Any thoughts on this setup?

Got ideas from this build and the video below:
[youtube]39-LCLJwASA[/youtube]
 
That will certainly work. I've run the same battery pack (10ah 24s2p) for almost 2 years now. Should get you a top speed ~50mph on 26" wheels.
 
Thanks for you info.
If you don't mind me asking, how do you charge your batteries and with what charger?
 
Also does anyone recommend enabling regen while using li-po's I assume it's not a good idea due to the nature of li-po's?
If anyone is interested checked the model of my bike, it's a: Claud Butler Cape Wrath D27
 
I do 36Mph with a 3525 @ 80v 47amp 24s lifepo4 battery A123. I think I could get 15 miles wot as that the way I ride as the spring in the throttle is broken. It barly gets warm.
 
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