I recently discovered Revolt Motors out of Israel.
I'm really tired of the Alien Power BS and pathetic customer support!!!
I've been using Alien Power for a good while for EV grade outrunners, but my experience with them has been less than wonderful. Getting a reply back is usually 2 or 3 days of waiting and I rarely get a complete answer so I have to ask over and over again to finally get the information I want. Never mind the delays of many days between responses! I'll number my questions 1 to 5 to make them each UBER CLEAR. if I'm lucky, one or two will get a partial answer. Communicating with AP is frustrating on a good day! Then my last order was for a 80100 and 12090. I specifically talked about getting complete motors, hall boards and parts kits. AP outrunners include kits for mounting the motor and propeller. The C80100 kit was completely missing and the 12090 was not even a complete motor...never mind including the kit! I contacted AP for the missing parts. Sever days later I was told they were shipped to me with the motors. Uhhhh NO THEY WEREN'T!!!! I would have noticed!!! So... several more emails later with long delays from AP and finally I was told replacement parts were shipped. A month passes...no parts. GRRRR!
I contact AP again and by now they have forgotten all about me so I have to explain multiple times all over again what I was missing. This time I insisted they ship with tracking so I had proof they actually shipped. Weeks pass...no shipping information. I'm thoroughly MAD with AP by now and express it in my email. Finally a week later I get tracking information showing the parts shipped that day. All I can say is WTF is wrong with Alien Power?!!! Obviously they want to piss off their customers! I think I'm thoroughly done with Alien Power ever seeing another dollar of mine! See below for motor quality pictures. This is yet another reason to NOT use Alien Power again.
Thanks to pathetically horrible customer service from AP, I was looking for some place NOT AP to buy motors from and found Revolt. I wanted to interview them to see how they performed. I wanted to see their customer service in action. OMG!!! What a HUGE improvement over Alien Power! I asked them all sorts of questions about random motors of theirs. There were times when it took several tries to get the information I wanted, but they always answered within an hour or 2. Overall, I'd have to say Revolt is helpful, informative, patient and friendly. AND it was another week before I even bought a motor yet!
As a test of Revolt, I bought an RV-100-regular outrunner. Shipping by ship from Israel to the USA took 45 days. China by ship is more like 15-20 days. If you need it faster than that, expect to pay a heavy shipping cost to get it quickly. The motor was $45 by ship or $105 by air. I was not expecting that steep of a price in either case! Alien Power charges $30 to ship the C80100 to me and it takes less than 2 weeks. Shipping from Revolt is prohibitive to say the least! Then how sloooow it is...makes that $45 downright expensive! This is my single biggest complaint about Revolt. Slow shipping and exorbitantly expensive. I've ordered items from Israel before and they did NOT take 45 days to arrive and shipping was not outrageously high. I totally get paying more for shipping over seas, but honestly, this was the MOST EVER I've paid for shipping from any country. I buy from Europe, UK, China, Isreal and the USA pretty regularly. Shipping from Revolt eclipsed everything else by 30-50% more cost.
I figured what better way to get to know Revolt than to buy a random motor that's on sale. If I found the motor was garbage I'd be out $190 and at worst, I'd put it up for sale. I've spent lots more than that over the years on EV stuff that I'll never use so I saw it as a reasonably worth while risk to take if it eliminated sucky Alien Power from my life. Over all, I'd say it was a worthwhile risk and while shipping is exorbitant, the motor quality is MUCH better and customer service is MUCH MUCH better. Good riddance Alien Power!!!
Onto the motor stuff...
This is the exact motor I bought.
Complaints about the motor:
1. The phase wires are 12 awg silicon. I wish they were 10 awg silicon, but 12 awg is sufficient.
2. The motor comes with shielded bearings, but this is pretty typical. I've never seen an outrunner come any other way.
3. There's no universal mounting kit or prop adapter. It's not even an option as a separate item to buy.
4. Set screws are used in the bell end caps as small weights for balancing the motor. They are not secured with locktite.
Things I REALLY like:
Most of my comparisons are between the RV-100-regular and the Alien Power C80100. This "low end" Revolt motor is a much better product than the C80100 in many ways.
1. The stator is bigger. The Revolt specs say 80mm. Alien Power does not say, but it's 68mm.
2. Bigger magnets. These magnets look to be about 16mmx50mmx3mm. I believe the C80100 magnets are 11mm wide. Length and thickness look about the same. There's no gaps between the magnets like the C80100 has. This is actually less than optimal. You want gaps between the magnets.
3. Bigger stator teeth. The C80100 has about 6mm gaps between the teeth. The RV-100 has 1mm gaps.
4. The stator is wound with 18 awg wire. The C80100 with 32 awg. The windings are tight and even and the stator teeth are 100% full.
5. The wound stator looks like it's soaked in epoxy.
6. The outer bell shielding is better. I used an allen key. The C80100 grabs steel objects quite strongly. The RV-100 attracts steel, but not as much as a C80100.
7. The C80100 is rated for 7kw which is silly. 68mm stators typically max out at 5kw. My C80100 does a bit less than that. The RV-100 is rated for 2kw continuous and 5kw peak. Bigger magnets, bigger stator, 100% full stator windings...I bet 6500 watts continuous is likely.
8. Same sized shaft (12mm), but this one has 3mm key ways on both ends. Supposedly the shaft to bell union also has a 3mm key in it.
9. The motor is a good bit heavier than a C80100. I won't know for sure until I actually hold both motors in my hands, but I'll give it an extra 2 pounds of mass. That's probably 80% from a larger and fuller stator and bigger magnets.
10. Motor height is very close to the same, but diameter of the armature is a good bit larger on the RV-100.
As will be seen further on in this thread, there is some debate about eddy currents in the magnets and what causes them. These eddy currents are waste heat and reduce motor efficiency. I have found a few articles on the subject of gaps between the magnets helping with this issue, but nothing about electrical conduction between the magnets or the armature back iron. Very LOW ohms resistance between the magnets and armature back iron is extremely common in motors. What I said above about the magnets filling the armature space is actually not optimal or the best design. There really should be gaps between the magnets to reduce eddy current losses in the magnets.
https://www.motioncontroltips.com/motor ... ariations/
https://www.edn.com/design/sensors/4406 ... Principles
https://www.jmag-international.com/cata ... tLoss.html
A few pictures...more will come later when I take the motor apart and use a better camera.
The holes tapped around the perimeter of the bell top and bottom have small set screws in various places for balancing. Alien uses globs of JB weld epoxy between the magnets inside the bell for balancing. This is much better! I think they tap M2 holes around the perimeter and then if needed redril/retap them to M6 if they need to add more weight. 90% of the threaded holes are M3 and only 3 are M6.
This is the motor base. Before I mount the motor to anything, I'll have to pull off the spacer and make a plate so that my mounting screws to the EV frame are further away from the shaft. The M6 screws are just long enough to bottom out in the 12mm deep threaded holes when passing though the spacer. The actual bottom of the motor stands about 1mm longer than the bottom of the motor bell. This is pretty useless as is. Revolt...PLEASE make a motor base we can actually use!!!! See my comments about the C80100.
I'm not sure why it was done this way, but the bell top has 6 8mm holes and 6 15mm holes for air passage, but the bottom only has 8mm holes. Ventilation will be limited here.
Those stators are 100% full of 18awg copper.
Lets look at the C80100 for comparison. I still like this motor a lot, but by comparison to the RV-100-regular (base model shown above)...well it's just not as good.
Much less copper fill per tooth. I'm going to estimate 75% full and it's wound with 32awg strands. The gaps between the teeth is about 6mm.
The stator looks like it's coated in epoxy, but the tiny wire strands are not. They can be easily damaged.
Smallish magnets with large gaps between them. I think they are 11mmx50mmx3mm. The gaps between magnets are important, but they don't need to be this large. 1mm is sufficient. The lack of gaps between the magnets in the RV-100 is actually less optimal than these large gaps.
This is what I do to the AP C80100 to make the stator hold up to the weather...give it a good dose of electrical paint!
I do wish the RV-100 had 4 screw holes in the top like the C80100 does. There's a good chance that people will want to use the motor with a propeller or reinforce the shaft to bell union.
The base of the C80100 can be mounted directly to things which is VERY convenient. The 4 M6 screws mounting the base to the motor are about 40mm apart. The ones for mounting the motor are about 60mm apart. The entire RV motor series needs you to make your own custom motor mount. A universal base that comes with the motor would be brilliant!
I want a kit like this with the RV-100 and there's nothing at all. I did strongly recommend adding something like it to the entire motor lineup from Revolt, but Revolt claimed that people were using their motors in far too many differing ways to make a universal kit. I disagree. They should make it at least as an add-on kit that you buy separately. I sure want one! The factory motor base can't be used IMHO for anything
My Currie scooter is very strong, accelerates well and it tops out at 45 mph on the C80100. It could go faster if I geared a little closer to 1:1. The motor has plenty of torque to get me to 45 mph and up steep slopes from a dead stop. It's geared at 4.1:1 or 74:18. If I dropped that to 70:18 or 3.9:1, I'm very confident that 50mph would be doable with only a small reduction in torque at the wheel. With the RV-100-regular motor on the Currie, it would be MUCH faster and stronger than it already is. I suspect I'd deliberately turn down the phase amps just to tame the motor. It would literally be too powerful for the 75 pound scooter. This motor can drive a much larger EV without trouble. What's more is this is the weakest model in the RV-100 line-up! I think I'll seriously look at getting an RV-100E soon...just for comparison. I really want a universal kit!!! Otherwise, I'm very pleased with the motor. it's a way better motor than the competing C80100 and this is just the base model RV-100.