Project death trap

So..

I've owned a kmx for over a year now, and i truely love the electrified kmx experience

The kmx as a simple none electrified trike is great, but other owners here on the fourms that have a electrified version know that there is room for plenty of improvement, from my experience here are some areas..

- battery compartment
- solid torque ams
- stronger front wheels
- keeping the center of gravity as low as possible
- better braking system
- steering dampaner for easy steering at high speed
- a nice strong motor that wont overheat

So lets get started, ill update this thread as i go along

So i went with something out of the ordinary for the motor, markcycles famous x6 motorcycle class hub motor from my trusty old x5 hub

Why did i go this route?

Well... Yea the motor is expensive, but it will be worth it!!

The x54 & Greyborg motor are in 6-700$ range + ship

I figured if im spending that kind of dough, might as well go x6 right!

I purchase the x6 hub (motor only) from mark, and i was impresssed!

The motor come with a
-very solid torque arm (none disc brake version)
-Aluminum center axle ( need to get a center axel to mount the hub)
-air cooled side covers
-8 gauge teflon wires
-thermal sensor

Not to shabby out of the box!

So i used a freebe motorcycle 17" rim with rubber in near new shape, and laced her up..

Now some photos... Showing the frame extension.. About 8"... Custom rear arm... Widening the frame and reinforcing it to come

Ill be usin some ideas from matts famous dual astro motor trike

Reserved

Reserved

When can we decrypt that RESERVED area to get these great pics ?

DOc

Hi Steveo,

BTW Happy New Year... Wowww! That is way to begin the new year isn't it

I am not a very advanced engineer in structure design... but do you think that since you are changing the wheelbase lenght on your frame... you will need also some rectification on the overall symetrical triangulation design... meaning that you should increase as well the width for the front wheels. (may be the perfect time to build an indepedent front suspension like the German Pirol Trike http://www.fahrrad-marquardt.de/images/bikes/pirol/pirol_technik_1.jpg with an anti-roll bar http://www.pirol-trikes.de/cms/images/stories/fruit/produktneuheiten/stabi_003.jpg)

On-Line hints:
http://www.jetrike.com/tadpole-or-delta.html (scroll down)
http://www.jetrike.com/ergonomics.html

I noticed that there was no more chain, sproket and pedals on your new project... are you planning to re-install them accordingly to your provincial regulations
http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/dandv/vehicle/emerging/e-bike-faq.shtml#a3 or if you are simply going to use it for off-road purpose only.

Bye...

Bison_69 said:

Hi Steveo,

BTW Happy New Year... Wowww! That is way to begin the new year isn't it

I am not a very advanced engineer in structure design... but do you think that since you are changing the wheelbase lenght on your frame... you will need also some rectification on the overall symetrical triangulation design... meaning that you should increase as well the width for the front wheels. (may be the perfect time to build an indepedent front suspension like the German Pirol Trike http://www.fahrrad-marquardt.de/images/bikes/pirol/pirol_technik_1.jpg with an anti-roll bar http://www.pirol-trikes.de/cms/images/stories/fruit/produktneuheiten/stabi_003.jpg)

On-Line hints:
http://www.jetrike.com/tadpole-or-delta.html (scroll down)
http://www.jetrike.com/ergonomics.html

I noticed that there was no more chain, sproket and pedals on your new project... are you planning to re-install them accordingly to your provincial regulations
http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/dandv/vehicle/emerging/e-bike-faq.shtml#a3 or if you are simply going to use it for off-road purpose only.

Bye...

Click to expand...

The frame will be reinforced, have not reached that point yet

Ill be using a similar design to matt rc motor trike, since it will stiffen up the entire frame

Suspension would be nice, but im not set on going that exteme, and simply dont have that kind of fund for the project

It will be chain driven eventually, ill need to think of something... Prob need to use a jackshaft

This will be the last thing i work on ..

-Steveo

[accent=crocodile_dundee] That's not a deathtrap.



THAT's a deathtrap [/accent]

is that a bianchi-factory-built trike? it looks...odd. not wide enough rear track? (esp for it's height)

(and now somethign i don't like to do)
btw, if you haven't peekd at it yet, could i ask you to tell me how bad my present trike idea is?
http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=681469#p681469
before i start building stuff.

amberwolf said:

is that a bianchi-factory-built trike? it looks...odd. not wide enough rear track? (esp for it's height)

Click to expand...

It's a Longstaff trike from England. I don't know why it has Bianchi decals.

You go around a corner on a Longstaff trike by hanging way off the inside to keep the thing from turning over.

Note the two separate brakes on the front wheel (because there are zero brakes on the rear wheels).

Very cool steveo, I look forward to seeing the evolution.

Subscribed

Any goals in mind? Or just building it and want to be surprised? :lol:

iovaykind said:

Subscribed

Any goals in mind? Or just building it and want to be surprised? :lol:

Click to expand...

Lots of toque
Deadly fast
Best stability possible
Great braking capability

OMG Steveo !!!

That is promissing!!

I've been thinging about a project like that!...

That will be really nice build!!

I have 3x Agni 95R in my lab and one of them could fit really nicely on my Typhoon!..

Your project is tempting me alot to begin an upgrade from 5304 to a Agni 95R motor

Btw.. enlarging the 2 front rim IS something you want to consider!!!

It make a huge difference!!!

Doc

Doctorbass said:

OMG Steveo !!!

That is promissing!!

I've been thinging about a project like that!...

That will be really nice build!!

I have 3x Agni 95R in my lab and one of them could fit really nicely on my Typhoon!..

Your project is tempting me alot to begin an upgrade from 5304 to a Agni 95R motor

Btw.. enlarging the 2 front rim IS something you want to consider!!!

It make a huge difference!!!

Doc

Click to expand...

Hey doc

Agni 95r would be a great motor to try, pleanty of power for sure

I went x6 for a simple install and being able to use the monster 36 fet infinion @ 400 amps

We just build a go kart at shop with a small dc motor and 72v @ 450 amps

Its is the most insane thing i ever try, lots of wheel spin...

Check my youtube, im gona upload a video of phill at rosspar trying it out



I agree with your wide rims idea, however nobody makes a wide 16" rim as far as i know... The ones on that yellow rc trike you probably saw video of uses 2 custom 16" rims!

Steveo

steveo said:

I agree with your wide rims idea, however nobody makes a wide 16" rim as far as i know...

Click to expand...

Biketony007 on eBay usually has wide 16" wheels available. They come from kids' bikes and they are built up on coaster brakes, but the price is right enough to make them worth unlacing:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/230727337926


Those rims are 28 hole, but J&B Importers sells steel cart hubs and trike hubs in 28 hole, cheap, that just about any bike shop can get for you.


If I remember correctly, the trike hubs are intended to be fitted with 15mm bearings, but in this case they'd need significant machine work to make them accept brake rotors anyway.

so here is a quick video i did.. showing what i've done so far on the death trap...


so far .. i've been successfull at running 18s1p lipo @ 150 amps... with sag hitting 60-55v under full load...

acceleration is very good for only about 11kw output...

brakes work really well... dispite there being 2 brake levers for left & right...

so far.... brakes.. steering dampaner... regen... motor .. are solid

still need to figure out...

-chain & jackshaft ...
-rear fender..
-controller mount point..

video

http://youtu.be/wlxeVmgZR8Y



-steveo

If you decide to let someone else take it for a spin, make sure they're wearing Depends.

[youtube]Tj3IqgGaUGE[/youtube]

Chalo said:

steveo said:

I agree with your wide rims idea, however nobody makes a wide 16" rim as far as i know...

Click to expand...

Biketony007 on eBay usually has wide 16" wheels available. They come from kids' bikes and they are built up on coaster brakes, but the price is right enough to make them worth unlacing:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/230727337926

Those rims are 28 hole, but J&B Importers sells steel cart hubs and trike hubs in 28 hole, cheap, that just about any bike shop can get for you.

If I remember correctly, the trike hubs are intended to be fitted with 15mm bearings, but in this case they'd need significant machine work to make them accept brake rotors anyway.

Click to expand...

I went with 32 hole hubs to accomidate the rims and i changed the rims to the best i could sorce...

I will have to make custom axles... They will go from 20m and taper down to 12m to fit into the oem steering arms

I will post some pics soon

Thanks
Steveo

Love the Tesla! How do you like it?
The KMX is dang sweet also! Looks like fun.

wildharemtbkr said:

Love the Tesla! How do you like it?
The KMX is dang sweet also! Looks like fun.

Click to expand...

Tesla has unbelieveable torque, neck snapping

I chased it around for fun cause he said wana race lol

Obviously couldnt stand a chance, we see when i have the proper battery and controller hehe

-steveo

Sand blaste and painted!

Almost ready for the new season

Really professional work Steveo!! Congrat for your new KMX upgrade!! 8)

I see you have been inspired by Recumense with his yellow trike :wink:

That frame will rock solid!

btw, even if you decide to install the battery under your legs ( between the two wheels, i found it really improoving the handling and cornering response.. without flip issue.

Also it's something that make your legs confortable to sit on and help to not have your legs squeezed under the trike front frame in case of your foots fall of the pedal during bump..

I did 95km on my trike today with my 2kWh A123 in 16s2p. the top speed is not the same as with my 28s but the max speed is like 45km/h wich is pretty confortable for all the path i made and alsop the motor is spining at max rpm ( full throttle) so it's efficient. I had about 8Ah left out of 40Ah.

Wil try my 5403 soon, but i'll have to install some DC-DC to boost the voltage of that 16s by about 20V with few serie parallel 5V 30A dc-dc.

what is great is that i can also charge that battery with my Zero quick charger ( the DeltaQ).. it'S teh same voltage as the 14s LiMn of teh Zero :wink:

Please Steveo continu to keep us updated on the mods you make on that beautifull trike!

Doc

Hey doc

I agree the battery isnt in the best spot for getting best balance

I will give it a go like this and see how i like it, i have steering dampaner, front end is 6" wider, trike is about 12" longer, and any part i cut/welded to have thicker stronger metal, not to mention the reinforcement bar i added to the frame and seat tubbing

I think your series parrallel contactor idea you came up with long ago is the way to go to give you good range/efficency or high speed and greater power output, just as you did on the mongoose bike

The dc to dc converters seem like alot of work, and you would need many to achieve the power you need from the battery

I can always add a battery compartment to the front of my kmx and use the rear plate for charger or storage

Its to late now ... Frame cut/welded/painted.. No going back.. I prefer the battery out of the way..

Steveo

Doctorbass said:

Really professional work Steveo!! Congrat for your new KMX upgrade!! 8)

I see you have been inspired by Recumense with his yellow trike :wink:

That frame will rock solid!

btw, even if you decide to install the battery under your legs ( between the two wheels, i found it really improoving the handling and cornering response.. without flip issue.

Also it's something that make your legs confortable to sit on and help to not have your legs squeezed under the trike front frame in case of your foots fall of the pedal during bump..

I did 95km on my trike today with my 2kWh A123 in 16s2p. the top speed is not the same as with my 28s but the max speed is like 45km/h wich is pretty confortable for all the path i made and alsop the motor is spining at max rpm ( full throttle) so it's efficient. I had about 8Ah left out of 40Ah.

Wil try my 5403 soon, but i'll have to install some DC-DC to boost the voltage of that 16s by about 20V with few serie parallel 5V 30A dc-dc.

what is great is that i can also charge that battery with my Zero quick charger ( the DeltaQ).. it'S teh same voltage as the 14s LiMn of teh Zero :wink:

Please Steveo continu to keep us updated on the mods you make on that beautifull trike!

Doc

Click to expand...