'lightest.bike' 1.7kg 1000w mid drive

Thanks for your advice!

With the mid mount, I'm a couple millimeters away from clearing the head tube.
If i managed to clear the head tube, it would look incredibly goofy because it'd look like the front of the bike has a motor boner. :LOL:

It is true that with the inframe or hybrid mount, there's some possibility to use the slots to adjust chain tension on dual chainring system?

If so, we have a 'slam dunk' for these strange frames. The only thing i'm not sure about, is what ratio gearing we need.
I'm guessing we want 2 chainrings with the same tooth count.. one for the lightest drive, the other for the chain that goes to the back wheel.
 
neptronix said:
With the mid mount, I'm a couple millimeters away from clearing the head tube.
If i managed to clear the head tube, it would look incredibly goofy because it'd look like the front of the bike has a motor boner. :LOL:
Click to expand...

LOL, that would be something unique. Putting a motorbike front fairing ( such as this one: https://www.moto-vision.com/it/articolo/20197-black-front-headlight-fairing-for-harley-sportster-dyna-fx-xl-fork ) can be an original way to cover the motor in that position.

neptronix said:
It is true that with the inframe or hybrid mount, there's some possibility to use the slots to adjust chain tension on dual chainring system?

If so, we have a 'slam dunk' for these strange frames. The only thing i'm not sure about, is what ratio gearing we need.
I'm guessing we want 2 chainrings with the same tooth count.. one for the lightest drive, the other for the chain that goes to the back wheel.
Click to expand...

Long Mount and Hybrid Mount allows you to adjust the distance between the motor and the BB. Also Inframe does the same but the first ones are probably more suitable for your bike.

About the gearing: the max motor pinion rpms under load are approx 300 rpm ( that obviously depends on the load). So let's say that you want them to match with you max cadence of 100rpm. There's a ratio of 3:1. So a 32T chainring for the motor chain should be OK. Then you can figure out the second chainring depending on your current gearing, as in a normal bike.

Remeber that you'll be able to use the bike only with the throttle.
 
Looked at the mounts on your website.

in-frame looks like you can adjust it to almost any goofy situation one can dream of. And my recumbents are goofy. Also, it seems to have enough adjustment

1706936289782.png


On the hybrid mount, i don't see where you have sliding adjustment.. unless this means you move the motor to the bottom area i highlighted? what am i missing?

1706936850746.png

The long mount diagram confused me because there was no sliding areas... the bike shows it though. This looks like enough adjustment to adjust a chain, but it is a little too long for the recumbents.

1706937256376.png

I think in-frame is the way to go unless i'm not seeing something on the hybrid mount.
 
Hi Neptronix,
you can adjust the inframe mount as long as you're going to install the motor upside down. How would you place that in your recumbent?

For the Long Mount, correct, that's an ond revision. We're about the receive the new version, which is herein attached. I'm posting the single plate files so that you can see what are your options. We'll get those by the end of the month.

About the Hybrid mount: we use that in fix position most of the times. We've been able to install the motor on very difficult frames by finding the right position and then drilling and tapping holes where needed on the plates. The sliding area that you highlighted is for the rear chain tensioner ( after the chainring).

Hope this helps.

Matteo
 

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Still waiting for my kit. The 250W Germany legal version.
Ordered exactly 1 year ago.
For this bike.
Would sell the Rocky Mountain Altitude Powerplay after this, it proved that the lightest kit system (powering the chain instead of the bottom bracket) suits my needs best.
The Altitude Pplay is a great descender but the Bionicon is the best climber I ever had. Still ride it for the shorter rides with steep climbs, but for longer rides my power just isn't enough any more. Speedig downhill is at my age no priority any more.
1707245301065.png
 
Last edited:
Thanks matteo;

I think i will order a hybrid mount. I wanted to avoid having to machine anything but it has the extra metal needed to do so and get at least 1 chain link worth of adjustment.

As to how to fit that recumbent, i want to try this on my other semi recumbent because it has two bottom brackets and this means i have a lot of options on where to place it.

I probably have to use dual chainring because the chain angles might not work in my favor.

1706581749355-png.346761


My upright bike is about to come back from the shop getting it's original BB removed.
Plan to try it in that bike first.

I wish it was easier to do dual chainring. Some modification of the mid or hybrid mount would allow for tensioning. Would help it fit a much wider range of bikes.
 
Last edited:
Atos62 said:
Still waiting for my kit. The 250W Germany legal version.
Ordered exactly 1 year ago.
For this bike.
Would sell the Rocky Mountain Altitude Powerplay after this, it proved that the lightest kit system (powering the chain instead of the bottom bracket) suits my needs best.
The Altitude Pplay is a great descender but the Bionicon is the best climber I ever had. Still ride it for the shorter rides with steep climbs, but for longer rides my power just isn't enough any more. Speedig downhill is at my age no priority any more.
View attachment 347182
Click to expand...
Hi Atos, please send me a PM with your name so that I can double check. Thanks
 
So i just got my regular mountain bike back.
Should be bike season here in my part of the US in a week or wo. Time to get moving on trying this motor!

Sent an email to order a replacement bb and hybrid mount!
 
endless-sphere.com

**Not Available** Lightest.bike 750W High Torque Mid Drive Kit

Over $1,172 value for only $450 USD! Bikee and I... we are like milk and vegetable oil... we just don't mix. Hopefully this little motor can find a home where it will be loved. Does not have the "superhero" unlock code! You will need to purchase the unlock direct from Bikee to get the full...
endless-sphere.com endless-sphere.com

Edit: listed as NOT AVAILABLE until further notice.
 
Last edited:
neptronix said:
So i just got my regular mountain bike back.
Should be bike season here in my part of the US in a week or wo. Time to get moving on trying this motor!

Sent an email to order a replacement bb and hybrid mount!
Click to expand...
Hi Neptronix, are you going to put the Lightest on a regular MTB? That would be awesome!. Please post some pictures so that we can better suggest the best mounting options.

I saw your request for the shorter shaft: what's the bike chainline?

Thanks
Matteo
 
@Pilot Engineer : Thanks !
Sent my bottom bracket details.

Battery question: is there anything special to regard about the BMS ?
Planned is 36V.
Max. Amps protection setting ? Minumum voltage setting ?
 
Atos62 said:
@Pilot Engineer : Thanks !
Sent my bottom bracket details.

Battery question: is there anything special to regard about the BMS ?
Planned is 36V.
Max. Amps protection setting ? Minumum voltage setting ?
Click to expand...

@Atos62 : you're very welcome.

About BMS: it should be able to give 25Amp continuously. Max Amp protection setting: 35A should be fine.
Min voltage: that depends on the cells you're going to use. Usually we set that to 28V.
 
We hear you...

Starting from to the requests of @nervagon , and seeing the impossible installation of @neptronix on the recumbents, we finally developed the dual chain configuration.

20240219_113106.jpg


20240219_113056.jpg

This configuration has several advantages:
1) MORE FLEXIBILITY WITH THE INSTALLATION: you don't need anymore that the motor sprocket keeps the chain above the chainring. So you'll be able to install the motor even if the sprocket is very low
2) PERFECT FOR FOLDABLE BIKES: with chainrings up to 52T, you'll have no problem installing the Lightest on your #FoldableBike
3) LOWER REDUCTION = HIGHER SPEED.
By using a smaller chainring than the pedal chainring, you'll multiply the motor's RPM, which is perfect for foldable bikes with small wheels.

Please note that, in this configuration, the torque sensor operating mode will not work.

IMPORTANT NOTE: Please note that for the already delivered motors, this configuration requires a longer BB shaft, the PAS sensor, an additional chainring with longer bolts and a firmware modification. The motor firmware update is currently only possible in Bikee Bike factory.
 
That's very good news. You just made it fit 3x the bicycles it could fit before (y)

For any bike with a smaller than 29"/700c wheel, it seems like 42t with the 1000w motor is not adequate to hit the top speed ( even with a 10t in the cassette ), and sometimes challenging to even get to 42T.

Really, you don't want 1000w of mid drive power going to a 10t sprocket anyway. It will probably wear very quickly. Better would be 12t to 48t, or something like that.


Of course this is from a USA perspective where, we can use higher power motors, and need to travel longer distances, so most of us want a high speed configuration.

Maybe it could be the standard choice for the 1000w model to be dual chainring unless the customer has a bike with 29" wheels.

The only alternative to this difficult chainring size limitation is to redesign the motor case so the drive sprocket is more outward and we can be guaranteed 42T chainring fitment almost all the time with a mid mount. But that's a lot of work for a small benefit.
 
Thank you @Pilot Engineer !

That's great that this is an option for me if I'm dissatisfied with the 36T setup I'm building now.

Doesn't the motor have an external port for torque sensing bottom brackets?

Screenshot 2024-02-23 122842.png

零部件

Bafang description
bafang-e.com bafang-e.com

This torque sensor from Bafang looks like a nice match, but you might run into the same problem I had with my external BB bearings... the countersunk cup part of the mounting brackets is too narrow in diameter for large cups to sit down in... so I had to machine mine down on a mill.
endless-sphere.com

Nervagon's Directionless, and Doomed Build

endless-sphere.com endless-sphere.com

Because I faced my BB down to 67mm, I am at exactly 73mm with the motor brackets... which means any 73mm bottom bracket will fit my bike off-the-shelf. So if there is support for torque sensing bottom brackets, that would be awesome.
 
I think they would not work that well. The motor torque would feed back into the bottom bracket i think.
 
Vbruun said:
I think they would not work that well. The motor torque would feed back into the bottom bracket i think.
Click to expand...
How do they make it work with the CYC Stealth?
www.cycmotor.com

Torque Sensing BSA Threaded Bottom Bracket | cycmotor

Total delivery time is 2 - 3 weeks after confirmed order. Tax not included.Torque Sensing BSA Threaded Bottom BracketCompatible with ASI BAC855 & BAC2000 controllers onlyAvailable options include 68/73/83, 100mm, & 120mm100mm & 120mm version not compatible with X1 Stealth ebike conversion...
www.cycmotor.com www.cycmotor.com
 
Pilot Engineer said:
Please note that, in this configuration, the torque sensor operating mode will not work.
Click to expand...
Why does the torque sensor not work with the dual chain config? It looks like pedal pressure will still deflect the torque sensor arm, will it not?
 
Last edited:
rivers said:
Why does the torque sensor not work with the dual chain config? It looks like pedal pressure will still deflect the torque sensor arm, will it not?
Click to expand...
Maybe it has to do with chain tension which the torque arm is very sensitive to. For instance, in the manual, it states that it is incompatible with non-derailleur drive trains like a Rohloff on a bike with sliding dropouts… or a single speed. I sold the bike this motor was going to be installed on during the long wait, but that bike apparently would not have been compatible. It was a single speed frame with a Rohloff. No derailleur.
 
nervagon said:
How do they make it work with the CYC Stealth?
www.cycmotor.com

Torque Sensing BSA Threaded Bottom Bracket | cycmotor

Total delivery time is 2 - 3 weeks after confirmed order. Tax not included.Torque Sensing BSA Threaded Bottom BracketCompatible with ASI BAC855 & BAC2000 controllers onlyAvailable options include 68/73/83, 100mm, & 120mm100mm & 120mm version not compatible with X1 Stealth ebike conversion...
www.cycmotor.com www.cycmotor.com
Click to expand...
Perhaps they only measure torque on the opposite pedal side without the chainring so they don't get the motor contribution? Pedal Assist Systems - Learn This page mentions sensors that don't pick up both pedal torques.
 
You could computationally subtract the contribution of the motor using an extremely accurate model of what the motor's torque per given amp/volt. You could also use a temperature sensor to accurately model the changes in resistance to the copper. (y)
ebikes.ca motor simulator is proof you can do this with close to perfect accuracy.

But this involves some genius programming and it's unlikely we'd see this in an ebike controller. I'm just saying there's a means to do it. :)
 
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