'lightest.bike' 1.7kg 1000w mid drive

[rhauff]

Why does the torque sensor not work with the dual chain config? It looks like pedal pressure will still deflect the torque sensor arm, will it not?

I was wondering the same thing & it took a while to think it through. In the dual chain config, as soon as the motor applies torque, the top side slack will be gone and the torque sensor will be at zero deflection. The torque sensor seems to act as only a chain tensioner in this situation. Since the motor is now pulling the top of the crank sprocket instead of pulling the wheel sprocket, the torque arm does not feel the difference in force between motor torque and pedal torque.

 

[rivers]

I think rhauff's analysis of the dual chain config is convincingly correct, although I would approach the visualization a bit differently: Note; my approach focusses on pedal torque and ignores motor torque to simplify the analysis.

There are two chainrings, inner and outer, and they are bolted together. The chain on the inner ring goes to the bike's rear wheel. When pedal pressure is applied both rings try to rotate causing the inner chain to go tight and pull on the grounded rear wheel. At the same time the top of the outer chain goes slightly slack. As pedal pressure is increased The inner chain pulls harder on the rear wheel, but the top of the outer chain continues to be slack in the absence of motor torque. The torque sensor arm does not move because there is no tension in the outer chain.

Conclusion: the torque sensor mode does not work with the dual chain config because pedal torque is not detected.

 

[neptronix]

FYI looks like i'm getting that hybrid mount and replacement BB next week.
We'll find out if the drive needs to go back to Italy ( dang ) to fit my recumbent afterwards.

 

[nervagon]

My huck-to-flat-proof install finally came together. The motor is completely locked in. The primary support structure is right at the drive gear, and neither torque from the motor or gravity can move the motor at all. It really feels bomb-proof which matches this old police bike well. Now onto replacing the rest of the drive train, brakes, etc.

The hard stuff is done. Finally.

 

[rhauff]

@nervagon Did you provide that upper frame clamp? It looks great, I don't remember seeing another install that looks so solidly mounted

 

[nervagon]

@nervagon Did you provide that upper frame clamp? It looks great, I don't remember seeing another install that looks so solidly mounted

I took the in-frame mounts, milled off most of the material to make it mate up nicely with an ATV roll bar accessory mount clamped to the downtube. The cut-down inframe mount then bolts to the front motor through-hole with an M6 bolt, and then to the downtube clamp with an M10. It's all very custom. I don't think Bikee understood what I was planning, but now they will.

 

[neptronix]

Looking good!

 

[nervagon]

So sick. OK, further updates will be in my build thread.

 

[neptronix]

Parts arrived!
Well packed and smells fresh from machining

This time we have metal BB cups and 123mm measured width instead of the 135mm w/some kind of plastic cups sent to me in the original kit. I like it.



It's pretty tempting to just install this on the 26er for testing purposes and take the easy path

 

[nervagon]

Update: Drive train all done. Box three prime 9. Conveniently Box sells a 144 link 9 speed chain, and it is long enough. Brakes and wiring/soldering is pretty much all that remains. Need to bleed the rear maguras after cutting and routing. Need to install the front maguras.

If I received a throttle I cant seem to find it. I asked Bikee if bafang throttles will work and they don't know. I'll have to test that. They use the same Higo connector.

 

[nervagon]

Little milestone: motor wired, and routed.

 

[Zambam]

What is the gap between the chain and at 12 o'clock of the chainring? Will they touch going over big potholes and does it matter?

https://endless-sphere.com/sphere/attachments/img_6750-jpeg.348764/

 

[nervagon]

What is the gap between the chain and at 12 o'clock of the chainring? Will they touch going over big potholes and does it matter?

https://endless-sphere.com/sphere/attachments/img_6750-jpeg.348764/

It’s a big enough gap that I think my clutched derailleur is will keep the chain off the ring. Nothing bad will happen if there is a touch. The chain and ring are moving together at the same rate.

But 36T is absolutely the largest possible ring for this bike with the short mounts.

 

[nervagon]

I attempted a test ride before dark but immediately following calibration I am locked out of the system with the display demanding a pin number to unlock. A quick search reveals that I must ask Bikee for this number? No mention of this whatsoever in the manual. I guess the 1st ride wont be happening today.

Also noticed during calibration that my chain is rubbing on the torque arm, causing it to jump while I ride and making unpleasant sounds. I guess I will need to take a file to the torque arm.

Edit: Bikee is likely closed for the weekend... so I might not be able test ride it all weekend.

 

[neptronix]

Ugh, that PIN thing..
I swear i heard somewhere it was 1111 or 1234 somewhere.

Looking forward to the results of your test ride when it happens.

ps do you have a 52v battery and the unit is not programmed for that voltage? i think the difference in cadence is small for that situation but i'm curious on how it works out.

 

[nervagon]

Ugh, that PIN thing..
I swear i heard somewhere it was 1111 or 1234 somewhere.

Looking forward to the results of your test ride when it happens.

ps do you have a 52v battery and the unit is not programmed for that voltage? i think the difference in cadence is small for that situation but i'm curious on how it works out.

Negative. Neither 1111 or 1234 unlock the screen. Lost weekend.

Once the torque arm is under tension with the chain it can be tightened down a little further, and it looks like that gave me a little bit of daylight between the chain and the alloy arm.

 

[nervagon]

Dusted off my old Galaxy S8 to install the app. Android app is also locked out. Bike boots into anti-theft mode right out of the box (after allowing you to calibrate), and they don't give you the code, and the manual make zero mention of this. Just wonderful. Because my system has been booting into calibration mode, I had no idea I would be locked out of my bike this weekend.

Bummer, this was the weekend I was finally going to see what this motor can do.

 

[neptronix]

Paging @Pilot Engineer

 

[nervagon]

Paging @Pilot Engineer

It's no use. They are long gone for the weekend. It's Saturday already in Italy.

 

[neptronix]

0000? 9999? damn bruh..

 

[amberwolf]

Another reason for me to recommend against this company and system for anyone inquiring about it.

I can't imagine relying on any system of any kind that can just randomly require you get an unlock code from the manufacturer.

Any company with such a system *must* be available 24/7 to get back to a customer about this kind of thing in minutes, at most.

Need to ride? Nope, sorry, you'll have to wait (days or longer) till they get back to you...and if they go out of business or stop responding to communications, you get to throw the whole system away and buy something else.

Yeah...no.

 

[nervagon]

Another reason for me to recommend against this company and system for anyone inquiring about it.

I can't imagine relying on any system of any kind that can just randomly require you get an unlock code from the manufacturer.

Any company with such a system *must* be available 24/7 to get back to a customer about this kind of thing in minutes, at most.

Need to ride? Nope, sorry, you'll have to wait (days or longer) till they get back to you...and if they go out of business or stop responding to communications, you get to throw the whole system away and buy something else.

Yeah...no.

There were way worse decisions made than this pin code thing. Firmware updates can only be done at their factory in Italy. Every configuration change requires at least a firmware update and sometimes a hardware update. Examples: If I wanted to mount my motor in-frame, I would have to send it all the way back to Italy to get a new torque sensor mechanism and firmware, and if I wanted to switch to dual chain ring I would also have to send it back to Italy. At first it seems like a motor with endless possibilities, but then you realize that it needs to be set up at the factory for your specific install plans. And if you change your bike and install orientation, you will need the company to modify it for you.

The firmware thing is especially confusing, because this kit is not for beginner DIYers. You get a box full of loose parts and screws and a massive manual. If you can get this kit installed by yourself, then you can certainly be trusted with flashing the firmware.

This could be somewhat improved with a North American authorized dealer/service center. But none exist ATM.

 

[nervagon]

0000? 9999? damn bruh..

negative.

 

[raylo32]

negative.

1234?

Edit: sorry, I didn't see earlier that you had already tried that.

 

[DaLanMan]

I once waited 3 years for the start of a race. It was unilaterally decided by the people involved that the idiot who had issued the challenge had to cede defeat since his vehicle was unable to compete.
First chap had a vehicle that he had munged together in his garage and was pushing towards breaking a 10s 1/4 (Ten second quarter mile) he was at 10.8 iirc and really proud of what he had done with a shoestring budget and a lot of sweat equity. Chap 2, swore his vehicle was better in every way and designed to not only handle the hard goal, but addionally was an efficient commute vehicle and could do long track events. Thing is with the NSX he was rolling with, it was entirely feasible he might be the first triple threat car ever brought to the track.

However now on like 5 years later. That NSX has managed to drive itself in and out of the garage like 2/5 times and the rest requires pushing. The potential for the infinite is far outweighed by the actual odds of success.

ANY vehicle that has an anti theft solution (btw, there is no anti-theft in the world that works, it is all an impediment to everyone except the honest folks) that causes more issues for the legal owners than it ever would for a thief is the product of a flawed mind.

And for the record. Chap #1..... yeah, certified at a consistent 7.7s 1/4 out of a 1970s era Datsun... He also drives the car ever weekend to just have fun.

The reason for the lengthy story is you have Amber who has created success out of things that astonish me. And uses the pile of discordant unusual parts as a daily commuter. Vs what is looking like it will be an awesome ride.. if it ever works.

I think the drive solution you are using is an amazing option. But one better suited to corporate thinking. Meaning it would be good if it was designed and eventually produced a working proto-type where the goal was a production bike. You have the goal of a never ending proto-type. This requires you have complete control over every aspect of your build because you are changing things daily. As opposed to changes made during concept, and applied either never, or not until you are at "solving manufacturing issues" stage of events.