Has anyone actually used a 3x3 Nine or Revolute IGH (with or without a mid-motor)?

krusty

1 mW
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Jun 12, 2021
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I've gotten so sick of derailleurs I'm ready to pull the trigger on an IGH for my main BBSHD iron steed. The wise thing would be to try something cheap first like a Sturmey Archer or Alfine, but I know I won't like the gear range and in any case these don't really have enough torque-handling capability for a BBSHD. Also I build my own wheels, which is a bit of a PITA, and my workroom is overflowing with old parts I don't need. So I figure I'd rather just skip straight to what I actually want and hopefully buy once, cry once.

At the high end there's obviously Rohloff but its a little low on torque capability and 14 speeds seems ridiculous: I have 9 on all my derailleurs and that's way too many (I only use 9 speed parts because there isn't anything simpler out there that can handle 11->50 cassettes.) And of course Rohloff is the most $$$, and their thru-axle option is kind of fake--which doesn't matter since they won't even sell it to people anyway. Enviolo is cheaper, but not cheap enough considering its heavy, lower efficiency and it, too, is a bit short on torque capability. Plus infinite gears actually seems like it would be annoying.

So that brings up some "new" product announcements I found from 2022: high power hubs from 3x3 and Revolute. They both look interesting but the 3x3 seems to really hit all the marks: 250Nm torque, >500% gear range and a little bit cheaper than Rohloff. Revolute is basically the same price and power but with a somewhat narrower gear range and sales only direct from Germany, which isn't ideal.

The catch is that I can find no sign that anyone has ever used either of these hubs! There's hardly any info on the internet about them except from the initial news announcements and the company webpages, plus a couple of no-information Youtube marketing videos. For 3x3 there seem to be at least two US resellers but they don't tell me much more besides the pricing. Worst of all I can find almost no trace on bike forums or Reddit of any regular Joe who has obtained, installed and reviewed either one of their hubs (this goes for both 3x3 and Revolute.)

So what's the deal? Should I be the first test monkey blasted into space? Do these hubs really even exist? Help!
 
i was also interested when i first heard of them but then i saw the price of over 1000€ i stopped thinking about it...
im currently in a discord called High voltage, just search on YouTube and you'll find the invite link... some guy is running a BBSHD with a enviolo extreme IGH which is definitely lower quality than a 3x3 hub but "only" costs around 400€
 
Hi @krusty, you might want to read this IGH thread, especially at/near the bottom.

P.S. I have a small, personal fleet of BBS-powered IGH bikes, most of which have $100-150 used-off-eBay Shimano Alfine SG-S501 8-speed hubs - all have succeeded. IMO, careful & patient shifting is the key.
I saw that thread and a few others: seem there are lots of people curious like me, but nobody seems to have any direct experience with the hubs yet. Which I think is pretty weird since its been 2 years since the product launch.
 
That G500A is pretty close but its 4cm too wide for me. Torque handling looks good and I'd certainly give it a try if they made a non-fatbike version.
 
some guy is running a BBSHD with a enviolo extreme IGH which is definitely lower quality than a 3x3 hub but "only" costs around 400€

Enviolo is a totally different animal than other gearhubs. It doesn't contain any gears, for starters. And it can never be out of adjustment or "between" correct shifts, because there aren't any increments to be between. I think the always-fully-engaged nature of the NuVinci/Enviolo makes it a great choice for a crank drive e-bike, and electric power makes the hub's relative dragginess much less of a drag.
 
Enviolo/NuVinci is interesting to be sure; I could overlook the slight efficiency loss and probably get used to infinite gear selection, too. But it still suffers from a torque limit of 100Nm and a decent, but less than I'd like gear range of 380%. Its also not clear what happens when pushed too far: my guess is the torque balls may go out of round from deformation or grinding. The Rohloff has those shear pins, which are better than nothing though I haven't read of anyone actually getting them to shear.

Thing is, I'm really trying to make no compromises on this wheel build so I can just use it for the next 10 years without regret. The 3x3 Nine seems to promise that, and I'd be happy to try one even for the ~$1200 or so it looks like it would cost. But first I'd like to see just some tiny evidence that it actually exists and works anywhere close to specifications!
 
@krusty, did you read the posting from @Merlinscave that I linked to, above?
I have a Bafang Ultimate M620 with 2300 watts, Innotrace controller, Gates belt drive, and a 3x3 Nine IGH. I started with a Kindernay hub that failed at 350 miles. Tried a Revolute Hub I, and it didn’t shift properly. I the went to a derailleur and was extremely cautious about applying power. Now I have a 3x3 Nine and love it. It is rated for 250 nm, sealed with grease (no maintenance), and supports a Gates belt (no chain breaks or mess.) I can shift to any gear immediately, skipping any amount of gears I wish (after stopping the peddling.) Gears 1 and 2 are very low, useful for hill climbs, cargo bikes, and walking speed. Gears 8 and 9 for speeds greater than 25 mph. IMO3x3 nine dealer, the 3x3 Nine is the only option at this time for high powered Bafang mid dive motors.
Vapor Propulsion Labs LLC. is a Colorado-based U.S. dealer
 
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@krusty, did you read the posting from @Merlinscave that I linked to, above?

Vapor Propulsion Labs LLC. is a Colorado-based U.S. dealer
No, sorry somehow I missed that! That's just what I was looking for. I'm like 90% of the way convinced to try it now and if I do I'll post a detailed report.

Edit: Now I feel like an idiot; I actually read that thread months ago and didn't notice the good stuff that showed just up in the last week. Incidentally @Merlinscave's bike with the 3x3 looks fantastic!
 
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I don't have any experience with them but have heard and seen a number of gas powered (2 stroke higher power 1-5hp) bikes built with Sturmey Archer hubs and a free coast crankset (equivalent to a BB drive electric)

Apparently the 3 speed is slightly more robust. May not be enough for good range with an electric. The torque from a electric could be a problem for a Sturmey.

Just thought I'd throw that out there for consideration.
 
No, sorry somehow I missed that! That's just what I was looking for. I'm like 90% of the way convinced to try it now and if I do I'll post a detailed report.

Edit: Now I feel like an idiot; I actually read that thread months ago and didn't notice the good stuff that showed just up in the last week. Incidentally @Merlinscave's bike with the 3x3 looks fantastic!
Krusty - I'm curious if you pulled the trigger? I've had the same feeling you had, i.e. why is it so hard to find someone writing about firsthand experience with this IGH? Would love to hear your opinion if/when you go for it.
 
Krusty - I'm curious if you pulled the trigger? I've had the same feeling you had, i.e. why is it so hard to find someone writing about firsthand experience with this IGH? Would love to hear your opinion if/when you go for it.
I assume because they don't sell direct to consumers? At least last year they didn't
 
Krusty - I'm curious if you pulled the trigger? I've had the same feeling you had, i.e. why is it so hard to find someone writing about firsthand experience with this IGH? Would love to hear your opinion if/when you go for it.
No, not yet at least. I was really close to it but at the last minute I miraculously fixed the shifting problem that had been plaguing my new ebike build (it turned out it was just a tiny misalignment in the adjustable rear dropouts.) I had just bought a new ebike groupset from Box Components on clearance and now that its working smoothly I figured I'll stick with it for a while.

I'm definitely going to try it though; just not quite yet!
 
I researching now and will probably replace my current Shimano 3 speed with the 3x3 later this year. I have been running BBSHD and the N3 for about 3000 miles and surprisingly it has not failed. (mostly rail trails) The issue I will have to deal with is the same problem I had when I put my BBSHD on my momentum ux3. The belt-line is crucial and will more then likely have to offset the cog some how; as I did here: Belt drive for a BBSHD - Electricbike.com Ebike Forum
I will update as I go forward.
 
I looked into using IGHs for mid drives.
You will always add more weight and friction and cost for the benefit of a wider gear spread.

If you are looking for strength, supposedly the shimano linkglide chains are 3x more durable, along with the cassette teeth.
Would be the next best thing to an expensive IGH!
 
If you are looking for strength, supposedly the shimano linkglide chains are 3x more durable, along with the cassette teeth.

I have heard similar claims made for belt drives. Those were lies. I'm going to wait and see about Linkglide. Given Shimano's recent record of making garbage that lasts shorter and works worse (and costs much more in adjusted dollars) than their products from 30 years ago, I'm skeptical.

Who knows, maybe they'll get back to '90s performance and durability. Maybe.
 
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