Long time no visit, new project, tips andinfo on motor needed.

Hello,
Its been a while since i was here with Escooters etcetera, but now i'm working on a new project.

I bought 2 stand up e-scooters (kickbike fatmax) and want to upgrade these.
Sprocket width: 135mm, no chain needed, so front motor will do.
Rim size 20x4" needed (fat tire)
Preferred a lot of torque, and a topspeed of 18-19mph. (this is due to regulation and insurance.)

I came across a topicof a leapmotor 1500w motor, but its a tad old topic.
I read about .35mm lamination, 4T 5T 6T etcetera.

Is this still a good candidate? or are there better options to be had nowadays?
What bothers me at leapmotors, is the spokes being straight spoked, not crossed, wich is quite unusual? (and less strong?)

Bafang has geared hub motors, and i thought this might be better suited as it delivers less RPM and more torque, just like i need. Pricey though, and i think less strong, more moving parts.

About the 4T 5T 6T, since i need less speed and more torque, would it be wise to go for the 6T?

Any recommended controllers? i prefer a controller behind the tube battery, like polly and Hilong, but maybe there are better options?

A lot of questions, i know.
Relocating to relevant topict is also highly appreciated, thank you.

Welcome back!

Leafmotor is still good, but surpassed by the Grin All Axle in power density, as far as DD motors go. But there is a big cost difference.

What kind of top speeds do you need and what's your terrain like? ( flat? steep? rollercoaster? )
If you don't have substantial hills, you might get away with a geared motor. If your power requirements are modest, i'd go with a Shengyi SX2 since it's the current power density/efficiency champ in the ~750w rated range. Bafang has some nice stuff today at higher power levels.

Hi there,

Intention is steep, hilly and forest terrain.
Top speed 18 - 19 Mph (30Kmh) Legally limited to 25kmh, and 30 is allowed. Beyond its a big fine or scrapped bike. I can do this with programming the controller, as long as its not possible.to easy set it different mode when you drive. Programming with PC at home is fine though. I rather have the limit in the motor, resulting in more torque instead, as it running closer and more efficient when its running at its top speed.

I will take a look at the grin all axle, thanks.
The bafang i looked at, were mostly 170-190mm, whereas i need 135mm

Im looking at the leafmotor due the attractive pricetag. Wheb i take a 6 turn, i understand it will make 336RPM, giving me a speed of 32KM/H (approx 20MPH)
How precice is this value under load?
is it safe to say that i loose about 10 percent under load, or will it just keep 336 rpm @ 1500W? (calculations by google state approx 200-250watts are needed to maintain 20mph).

i assume the motor is at its best efficiency then, feeding it with 48 Volts battery? 3T will draw less amps as a 4 5 or 6T i presume?

Looks like a fun ride. There's no fear of speed cameras in the forest, surely you'll want a hidden off-road mode. 25km/h will substantially reduce the fun. With those big fat tires you'll be able to tackle most terrain a lot quicker.

The long old leaf motor thread you found is the bible for those motors. Everything you could want to know will be covered.

You're better off with motor in the rear than the front, for various compelling reasons, including torque and traction.

For a battery <10kg, I think backpack is the way to go for kick bikes. Camelbak bags make a good starting point, nice light strong comfortable harness system, but you can use obviously use whatever you have laying around. Bag makes a big difference to the comfort though, and keeping the weight up high I find preferable, which the camelbak style hydration bags work well for.. You can test ride with bricks or beer in it to see how you'll get along with the weight on your back.

Hi, thanks for the reply.
Im looking for front wheel motors due the space of 135mm in the rear. (naturally it will be in the rear wheel, it is right now as well.) it currently has a 36 volts onframe battery with integrated hailong/polly controller.
Actually i prefer to keep it like that, just want to replace it for 48 volt and having more power less current. There are 22 fet models that would fit there, saves me a separate controller to install somewhere.

About the speed:
Its not that i'm afraid of camera's, but cops here dont like these kind of equipment and regular put you on a testbench. When it exeeds 30km/h you will lose the bike and they swap it for a fat fine. Not insured as well if something happens. Dont want to risk that.
I just figured with a lot of torque the woods will be superb going 30 through.

Theres a rental company in the netherlands that has the 500W models and they give you a track computer as well to ride several forest trackt and its magnificent. Done it a few times now and i love it. Just need a litttttle bit more torque, which is why i was aiming at 100W, but the leafmotor will do great with 1500W. Only downside is that with increased power, the speed increases as well and i dont want that. Unless its a programmable controller (not by display, thats illegal, must be by computer) that limits the legal speed, its no problem then.

ps. Its not that important if i have 5 or 10% less efficiency. i plan a dual battery anyway, and swap them if one is empty, to return home again. Also thinking about installing a frame battery and a slide-in battery at the rear as a return-home backup...

dutchlincoln said:

ps. Its not that important if i have 5 or 10% less efficiency. i plan a dual battery anyway, and swap them if one is empty, to return home again. Also thinking about installing a frame battery and a slide-in battery at the rear as a return-home backup...

Click to expand...

If we're using a direct drive motor, and you're going up hills, efficiency matters enormously so the motor survives.
The 22" effective wheel size on your vehicle ensures it won't be too stressed when climbing.

At the low speeds you want to run, you not really using the capabilities of this motor.
Motor Simulator - Web Tools - Resources

Efficiency goes up as you add more voltage and go higher speed. A DD hub is much less efficient at low RPM.

A geared motor makes sense for this use case, but if it's offroad, you should know that this beats up the gears inside. So you want a motor you know you can get replacement gears for.

Geared motors shed heat poorly. During extended hill climbing, they are great at dishing out the power... until they overheat much faster than a DD

However if you use a pair of smaller geared motors, splitting the load between them works out really well:

Motor Simulator - Web Tools - Resources

You probably want a motor with a higher power rating where most of your weight is, if the split isn't 50/50.
You mainly want a stronger motor than this so that it has stronger gears to take the offroad bashing better.

Yes, i actually stepped away from the geared motors.

Now, i've been reading and youtubing further around grin motors, and i think i'm in love...
The 45Max motor, providing very wide magnets of 45mm, ensuring heaps of torque are really great. When configured in 6T, it has a power of 7.2rpm/volt, so giving me a RPM of 345 with a full battery. 345Rpm gives 38KM/h as a speed. A bit too much, but i can program it to 30Km/h, being 20% below max. speed. Positive side is that it will remain this speed when battery gets drained.

Now, i read about their baserunner controllers, and this is exactly what i'm looking for actually. Combining it with a very nice color display, and a regen capable throttle, bike lights output, its really fantastic, exactly fits my needs actually.
It has a 12V output on which i can connect my motorcycle navigation on to be powered as well. Its hidden behind the battery mount having less cable clutter and disgarding extra controller housing, it really checks all boxes.

If they can provide it well spoked into a rim, it would be a really complete drop-in-place set.

Whats your opinion on this combo in my setup?

Can someone explain?

I have put in the data in the motor calculator for the standard version of the slow 45max motor with statorade vs the std version.
The version with statorade runs cooler, but uses more power and gives less range and efficiency???

A lower speed of 6-7km/h degrades range with 80% ???
Been playing with the calculator, but the results are stunning tbh.
Is it possible to limit current, or do something different when not running max. rpm?

You said you were trying to compare different motor windings, but I see different controllers selected:

Maybe you should only vary one thing at a time?

Personally, I have a Baserunner controller on a fat bike and consider it very underpowered. Max amps and max voltage are very limited. I like to go 30mph, though. If your speed limitation is true, I suppose it might be enough.