1,000w Leafmotor No power.

H

h.h.

100 µW
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Jun 15, 2010
Messages
9
48v 1,000 watts front hub on 20" wheel Workman trike. BMX tires. 6 months new.

Used around the property. The tire would occasionally spin in the sand resulting in a blown circuit breaker. Eventually getting worst to the point simply turning it on blew the circuit. Now it just won't turn on at all. Changing out the the breaker makes no difference. My thoughts are that the controller couldn't handle the amperage drawn when in sandy situations and failed.
Am I correct in my assumptions? Would a higher wattage controller possibly be the answer to my problem?
Thanks in advance.
tS2YevC.jpg
 
I'd say higher amperage, to keep the same voltage then drives up the watts. But I don't know how high it would need to go, I guess you're talking some serious surge. You should figure out if the controller really is what's dead instead of assuming.
 
What is your battery? Troubleshoots go like this.

Check battery with voltmeter.

Look hard at all plugs, start with the battery plug, that can erode with the connection spark.

Then look at all plugs, make sure none have worked loose. some types of plug can allow the contact to back out.

Often, a blown controller shows up as a very hard resistance to hand turning the wheel. Unplug the wheel and it goes away, the controller fets have blown.


I'm betting your high power use was hard on the battery. Or a bad plug has resulted in a failure to fully charge.
 
Thanks guys.
I found that it will turn on when attached to the charger, but if I give it throttle, it dies.
I guess that I need to get a dc voltmeter to check the charger output. I know the battery is holding some charge so perhaps it's just not being charged fully.
 
You've been here since 2010 do you know about these troubleshooting guides?

http://www.ebikes.ca/learn/troubleshooting.html
 
Ykick said:
You've been here since 2010 do you know about these troubleshooting guides?

http://www.ebikes.ca/learn/troubleshooting.html
Click to expand...
I was here in 2010. Thanks for the link.
 
What is this circuit breaker? is it the battery management system shutting off on the battery? If so, your problem is entirely the battery.

You will be pulling a lot of power with that motor dug into sand. I have overheated motors that way faster than any other way, riding in deep sand.

Put fatter tires on the bike, if possible. Looks like you have a fairly wide tire already, but if they are 2.3", try some 2.5"s, at least in the back.

if you do replace the battery, consider a larger one, that can tolerate the big surges caused by the deep sand with less strain to each individual cell.
 
DZ47=63 A regular circuit breaker on the hot line between the battery and the controller. I believe it's a 32 amp breaker.
The battery is 48v 20ah, the biggest that Leaf sells.
No burnt smells. The motor does start to spin with the charger attached. Not enough juice to stay on though.
Voltmeter should arrive today. Hoping that it's just a faulty charger. The system is only a couple months old. If I fried my battery just by riding in sand...
I don't know if I can get any fatter tires on the existing rims. I think the back ones may be more of a hindrance unless I'm pedaling hard to keep up with the front wheel. I'd like to design a mid drive to give a boost to the rear hub. I think it would be pretty easy to do. The drive gear from my old Currie bolts directly on to the hub. I just need a custom motor bracket that will hold a freewheel. But... If I'm frying batteries this easily.
I don't think I am. I'll see when my voltmeter arrives. I'm thinking now that my charger isn't putting out like it should.
If that fixes it, I'd still like to fix the blown circuit breaker problem. It's that initial surge from spinning in the sand. I believe it's blowing too easily.
 
Try measuring the axle/spacing in the rear to see if you could mount a couple of wheelbarrow wheels/ flotation style idea. Many years ago, my first gasoline scooter was something I built, and used wheelbarrow wheels. Not a big deal to bolt sprockets on or whatever it takes to connect to the axle.
 
I don't get why the circuit breaker would pop if your battery is weak. ( I mean now,, with the wheel on pavement) I think it's the bms inside the battery popping. The boost the charger gives making it work again sort of proves something. It could be as simple as a bad connection,, like that circuit breaker is cooked. or a plug. I'd try bypassing it all with some new wire, like jumping it past all the battery plugs and the breaker, see if that helps. Before jumping to the conclusion its the battery. But you did change the breaker,, it did not help,, that's not a good sign.

Then, look hard at your battery. test the voltage at each cell group, see if its got a weak cell group, or just unbalanced, etc. Just unbalanced would make your bms trip very easily because voltage on that low charged cell group is sagging under load. As for when the breaker pops,, that proves how hard that sand is working your battery. HUGE amps surge to get going in sand.

Why couldn't you kill a battery in a month? You're flogging it hard enough to. The sand man.

Ive rode the racetrack, I've rode the stone staircases, I've rode the big mountain passes in the rockies, but nothing works a hub motor like some good deep sand does.

The deeper your tires dig in to it, the harder you are on the system. Looks like anything fatter on the front wheel may not be possible, but if you can go fatter on the rear tires it will help the trike float. Don't worry about the rim, just if the rubber rubs the frame.

If you are heavy as I am, 190 pounds, you are digging those rims into the sand pretty deep. If you weight more, then you need fatter tires even more.

Ideally, you want a fat trike for sand. Eventually you might want to look seriously into a fat tire conversion. expensive though,,A fat trike.jpg
 
Problem 1: I'm only reading a charger output of around 20 some volts DC at the peak. On it's AC setting the voltmeter reads a steady 24 volts. It's displaying a green light showing a fully charged battery. The battery is holding 43 volts DC.

Problem 2: I'm also around 190#. I see your point on fatter tires. The weight is on the back, I think more so than a regular bicycle, My thinking may be reversed in thinking in terms of drag rather than float. I have a 2" BMX tire on the front with 2.2" on the back. Without weight on the front, it doesn't dig in, it just spins and throws the breaker. Nothing has really gotten hot in the process. I don't really know that it hasn't effected the battery, maybe just wishful thinking, but in my uneducated opinion, the breaker is doing it's job. Just maybe too well. I think it's the surge from the spinning tire that throws it.
I never had a problem with my old Currie running through much deeper sand. At least as long as I didn't let off of the throttle, which would tend to try and throw me over the handlebars as I came to a complete halt.

First, I think a new charger is in order. I'm looking at this one with a 54.6 voltage setting: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B...3-1ba4-4f4e-bdcc-0febe090b8ed&pf_rd_i=desktop.

Second, I'll look for some wider rear rims.

Third ($$$) I'm going to try and power the rear wheels with a mid drive as noted. Though it seems to be fairly simple,I haven't seen this done. Any links/sources would be greatly appreciated. That may be another thread if and when I get the money.
Thank you all for the input so far. It helped to channel my thinking. While I joined the forums a long time ago, I'm very much a novice.
 
The vast majority of trikes only power one rear wheel when you pedal, and the other just spins freely. Just something to factor into the mid drive plans...
 
New charger isn't doing it. Reading the literature that came with it, apparently I can't check the charger output accurately. I probably got the wrong reading off my old charger when I thought it was bad. Reading low voltage on the battery itself, everything else seems to be fine.
I just paid $500 for this battery. I really don't want to buy another. Can this one be rebuilt? Never had this trouble with lead/acid.
 
Be sure your digital volt meter is on Vdc not Vac, LOL I made that mistake a few days ago. But the writing on my Mastercraft DVM is dark blue against a black background and my eye's arent the best.

Where did you buy your battery from?
Do you know what cells were used?
What is the make up of the battery, number of serial strings and number of parallel strings.
Whats the voltage of the battery nominal and off the charger?
Whats the Ah rating of the battery?

Charge up the battery and read the voltage and see if it matches what you bought. If it doesnt then something is wrong, a loose or broken connection. If its shrink wrapped you may have to cut it open CAREFULLY, to get a good visual on the condition of the connections. This is the reason some people go with LiPo.
 
markz said:
Be sure your digital volt meter is on Vdc not Vac, LOL I made that mistake a few days ago. But the writing on my Mastercraft DVM is dark blue against a black background and my eye's arent the best.

Where did you buy your battery from?
Leaf Bike http://www.leafbike.com/products/lithium-battery/48v-li-battery/the-newest-48v-20ah-lithium-battery-1007.html
Do you know what cells were used?
Not sure.

What is the make up of the battery, number of serial strings and number of parallel strings.
Don't know
Whats the voltage of the battery nominal and off the charger?
48 VDC/54.6VDC
Whats the Ah rating of the battery?
20AH

Charge up the battery and read the voltage and see if it matches what you bought.
Green light shows on charger. Battery reads 47.3 VDC

If it doesnt then something is wrong, a loose or broken connection. If its shrink wrapped you may have to cut it open CAREFULLY, to get a good visual on the condition of the connections. This is the reason some people go with LiPo.
Click to expand...
 
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=85951&p=1257829#p1257829

Doing some reading there might help. Some past topics where problems with batteries were diagnosed and or fixed. The info will help you learn to check for various problems with batteries.

Its possible it's as easy to fix as a loose wire inside, but the other possibility is the battery is bricked. (its now a doorstop)
 
Where are you located? There might be a member nearby who wouldn't mind helping with troubleshooting your problem. I would be willing if you are near me. Currently wintering in Desert Hot Springs CA.
 
Hwy89 said:
Where are you located? There might be a member nearby who wouldn't mind helping with troubleshooting your problem. I would be willing if you are near me. Currently wintering in Desert Hot Springs CA.
Click to expand...
You got a lot of rain didn't you? I lived in Morongo Valley for some time. I'm in Peyton, Colorado now.
 
Update your profile with location and you might be surprised to find help isn't too far away.
Yep lots of rain. 2.9 inches in an area where the average annual precipitation is only 2. Not much damage though. The roads across Whitewater Wash were closed for a couple of days. This sand can soak up a lot of water.
 
They put a bunch of trailer homes along the banks of Whitewater (Palm Desert) one year. Guess what happened to them...It does rain in the desert.
If you haven't been to Pioneertown, it's worth the drive.
I'll update. Thank you.
 
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