# 1 reason I don't "Buy" and electric car.

[Arlo1]

TAX. So in our world of people for the most part the ones in control of our countries are either not as intelligent as most us on ES or just plain lazy. At what point do we say hey WTF? http://inhabitat.com/washington-state-legislators-pass-100-electric-vehicle-tax/
100$ per car?? What so if I don't drive my electric car its going to need to cover 100$ of road maintenance...? 15$ fee to register an Ev ( ICE doesn't have to pay) and then 100$ a year in virginia http://jalopnik.com/5978229/is-virginias-governor-waging-war-on-electric-car-owners
Texas... http://www.bizjournals.com/dallas/blog/morning_call/2013/01/texas-lawmakers-considering-fees-on.html

“I think we need to make sure that electric vehicles that tear up our roads pay their fair share,” state Rep. Drew Darby, R-San Angelo, told the Tribune. “Should we have the same registration fee for fuel-burning vehicles as electric vehicles?”

EVs tearing up the roads.....

Ok so how do we go about getting a proper study done to show there is less road maintenance needed for a EV. I mean we don't have big trucks hauling our fuel and they "Tear up the roads" more the a small car. What about all the parking stalls with oil patches under the front of the vehicle where the ICE is electrics will not have that. I spilt gasoline on the pavement once it was on a hill in the rain but the pavement turned to gravel (proly a shitty job paving but...) shows how nasty gasoline can be.

The thing is I burn ~$300 a month of gasoline now. If I look at a quick guess I would use ~43.3$ a month of electricity and that's 500km a week. with $.1 kilowatt hour and a car using average of 200wh/km So in one year I will use $519.16 of electricity.... And if BC uses the same bull shit as your dumb American leaders I will have to pay basically an equal amount in TAX for a vehicle that puts way less harm on the roads.
But my fiance will most likely be paying well over 50% in tax money because she drives far far less. She could use an e-bike... but she leaves at any wares from 3-6 am and works long days in the cooler so having shelter is a must 6-8 months a year.

 

[dnmun]

i wonder if the ZAP cars will be subject to the electric car tax. they are classified as a motorcycle so they might slip under the radar. this is more criminal behavior from our politicians just like the tax on bicycles regularly scheduled for vote in the legislature here. rednecks who hate anything that smacks of liberals. bicyclists are liberals by definition.

 

[neptronix]

You have to pay for road maintenance somehow.
You pay for road maintenance with when you purchase gasoline here in the USA. Taxes are usually 10-30 cents a gallon.
If you fill up a 15 gallon gas tank and gas tax is 20 cents, then you've paid $3 right there.
That adds up.

 

[Arlo1]

You have to pay for road maintenance somehow.
You pay for road maintenance with when you purchase gasoline here in the USA. Taxes are usually 10-30 cents a gallon.
If you fill up a 15 gallon gas tank and gas tax is 20 cents, then you've paid $3 right there.
That adds up.

You missed my point. 1 a blanket tax (100$ for everyone) is wrong what if you only put 20km on a car in the year.
2 if you don't use gas then all the trucking (which wrecks the roads more then the car it self) is no longer needed so why cant we have a fair study on how much damage an ev puts on the road vs a gas car. And then a tax per km which this early in the game is still stupid.

 

[Dauntless]

Politics is about two things:

1) Money is POWER

2) Whose Sacred Cow are we going to gore?

Oh, you don't like that they will make you pay a YOU tax? Why you little antiObamatist, you. They have laws to punish you for that. (And they do, they DO.) As Barbara Boxer cackled leading into Obamacare, another tax on being YOU, the great bun of political office is making people do things they don't want to do. Why do you think the government has so many ineffective programs? If they worked, people might want to do it afterall?

It's going to cost more to drive electric cars than gas, ultimately. The various Federal, state and local agencies will line up with taxes they say you can afford because you're not buying gas. Tax on electricity, tax on batteries, tax on registration. That'll total more than the gas would.

Just look at the estate tax on the late Howard Hughes. The government wanted 101.5% of the estate for taxes. Over $5 million more than the assessed $361 million he left behind. And that was just the beginning. . . .

 

[Arlo1]

If they make electric cars cost more then gasoline powered cars I will just stay home on strike. On welfare or what ever it takes. Imagine if everyone just quit working.... didn't buy gas or much food. If they run out of money to bully us then they will crumble. How many enforcement employees will keep working if their cheques bounce because the bank is dry.

They can try to bully all of us all they want but they cant change our own thoughts and they can't force us to believe in what is 100% wrong.

 

[parajared]

Also because electric isn't as cheap as everyone wants to believe:
Lets compare e-bikes to gas bikes for a sec. 1320watt hours (44v 30ah) of the cheapest lipo out there: hobbyking lipo costs about $500: it lasts about 500 cycles so you pay about $1 per cycle. 1320 watt hours will get you about 35 miles. A two stroke bicycle of similar "watt draw" will get about 120mpg. Gas is $3 per gallon so 35 miles divided by 120mpg equals .29 gallons of gas times three dollars per gallon or about $1 per 35 mile "cycle": the same damn price as electric.

 

[jonescg]

... the same damn price as electric.

Yeah, but a damn shade quieter

I was telling a young guy who wanted to do an electric go-kart series how much it would cost. His eyes bugged out. "It's not cheap going green!" he said.

Ironically, being as 'green' as possible doesn't cost much at all. In fact, stop spending money for a while - does more good for the environment than an EV ever will. I told him don't go down the 'green' road as there is ALWAYS some reason why it's not green. Do it cause EVs are fun, and you will never have a moral dilemma

 

[bigmoose]

If they make electric cars cost more then gasoline powered cars I will just stay home on strike. On welfare or what ever it takes. Imagine if everyone just quit working.... didn't buy gas or much food. If they run out of money to bully us then they will crumble. How many enforcement employees will keep working if their cheques bounce because the bank is dry.

They can try to bully all of us all they want but they cant change our own thoughts and they can't force us to believe in what is 100% wrong.

Quoted For Truth... and there you have it. The reason every socialist regime starts with a utopian "dream" and ends in iron fist enforcement of slavery of the masses for their labor...

"Those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it" comes to mind...

 

[hydro-one]

Im all for a general strike. Makes me proud to be a winnipegger...

Winnipeg General Strike

The Winnipeg General Strike of 1919 was one of the most influential strikes in Canadian history, and became the platform for future labour reforms.

Although many Canadian companies had enjoyed enormous profits on World War I contracts, wages and working conditions were dismal and labour regulations were mostly non-existent.

In Winnipeg, workers within the building and metal industries attempted to strengthen their bargaining ability by creating umbrella unions, the Building Trade Council and Metal Trade Council respectively, to encompass all metal and building unions. Although employers were willing to negotiate with each union separately, they refused to bargain with the Building and Metal Trade Councils, disapproving of the constituent unions that had joined the umbrella organization, and citing employers' inability to meet proposed wage demands. Restrictive labour policy in the 1900s meant that a union could be recognized voluntarily by employers, or through strike action, but in no other way. Workers from both industrial groupings therefore struck to gain union recognition and to compel recognition of their collective bargaining rights.

At 11:00 a.m. on Thursday May 15, 1919, virtually the entire working population of Winnipeg had gone on strike. Somewhere around 30,000 workers in the public and private sectors walked off their jobs.[38] Even essential public employees such as firefighters went on strike, but returned midway through the strike with the approval of the Strike Committee. Although relations with the police and City Council were tense, the strike was non-violent in its beginning stages until the confrontation on Bloody Saturday.

On June 10 the federal government ordered the arrest of eight strike leaders (including J.S. Woodsworth and Abraham Albert Heaps). A week later, about 25,000 strikers assembled for a demonstration at Market Square, where Winnipeg Mayor Charles Frederick Gray read the Riot Act. Troubled by the growing number of protestors and fearing violence, Mayor Gray called in the Royal Northwest Mounted Police who rode in on horseback charging into the crowd of strikers, beating them with clubs and firing weapons.[38] This violent action resulted in many people injured, numerous arrests and the death of two strikers. Four eastern European immigrants were also rounded up at this time and eventually two were deported, one voluntarily to the United States and the other to Eastern Europe. This day, which came to be known as “Bloody Saturday”,[39] ended with Winnipeg virtually under military occupation.


and thats what would happen again. Military would step in in.

I really want to know what these guys are really scared of. I want them to feel fear.

Vive le revolution, Im game but i know 99% of the people out there are totally clueless ..

Drive EVs
Break LaWs
dont pay tax
dont work for money- money is thier tool. they will never run out. you will run out of life before they run out of money. dont be bought.

They are afraid of people who cannot be bought

 

[Arlo1]

"Those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it" comes to mind...

Is this directed at me or the big machine? I did pay attention in social class but just enough to pass.
The reality is like hydro-one said 99% of people out there are clueless so a world wide or even country or state/province wide strike will never happen.
Its just really frustrating to know we are feeding a monster and the more it takes from us the more it demands.....

 

[bigmoose]

No, not directed at you Arlin, Quoting you for Truth! Meant to be complimentary.

I fully support what you said, but it appears a large number of our continent mates don't seem to see history repeating itself in the confiscatory taxation rates that we are headed towards. Instead of the state serving the people, I firmly believe we are in the process of a change in North America, where the state is now viewing the people as fodder to serve "it." That change troubles me deeply.

The end result will be the best, brightest and most talented either shutting down, or leaving. As that happens, the state will tighten it's grip to demand labor stay and produce for "it." That will then be history repeating...

 

[Arlo1]

Thanks Dave.

The one thing or catch phrase that comes to mind is the cops add on our local radio and tv "We are stepping up ENFORCEMENT in your area" what the hell that's something I'd expect from Hitler!

 

[Arlo1]

One of the things Jeremiah Pointed out on a facebook discussion we were having is "they are dropping the gasoline tax, and adding the EV tax"
I think this was referred to Virgina but non the less WTF.
Its sad that the government is acting like a little spoiled child and thinking they are not getting their fair share of our money when we drive an EV to save money or go green or what ever motivates us. They just assume they are missing out when they are already taxing electricity. Not to repeat but the amount of road repair needed for most EVs is very small compared to ICE. If you work the math with an estimated 254.4 million cars registered in the USA and around an average of 15,000 miles traveled a year. With about an average of 600 gallons of fuel used per year. That's 1,47,240,000,000 gallons of gas used in America in 1 year. With an average of 48.8 cents of tax on a gallon that's $71,853,000,000 of income! This is just numbers I gathered from googling wikipedia. So tell me did the US government Spend $71,853,000,000 or road work last year?

 

[Chalo]

Petroleum (and car use generally) are both heavily subsidized. While it is wrong for EVs to have to pay a $100 tax that stinking gas car drivers don't, it still does not cover the magnitude of the subsidy for anyone who actually uses their car regularly.

I just can't work up any tears for any car drivers, to be honest. They ruin everything and then they want to be treated fairly. Alright, so that's what y'all want. What I want is to live without cars' noise, pollution, danger, road bullying, and the ridiculous urban development patterns made to serve cars instead of people. To me, that's fair treatment. Can y'all do something about that?

 

[Arlo1]

Don't know where you live but some sort of multi person sheltered vehical is a must where I live. For one I would jot want to haul my sick wife and 2 kids to the hospital on a motorcycle. For two I drive 70km a day in snow rain and wind and everything a motorcycle is not a good choice for the winter for this because I work in and out side and need to be dry when getting to work. I use a small car not a big truck or SUV. And I will be riding electric motorcycles as much as I can but a car is 100% needed.

 

[bigmoose]

I guess I am not so hard on the transportation sector. Without cars, trucks, trains, etc. We would not have the benefits that today's society displays. Sure there are many areas for improvement. ... but the sharing of knowledge, information, and manufactured goods has given the medical and other industries a giant push that has enriched many peoples lives.

I am a pragmatist I guess. Without all this infrastructure I would never have made it to 2 years old because of medical issues. My wife would have died bearing our first daughter, that I had the pleasure of giving away in marriage in December. That would have ended the chances for our second daughter also. Not to mention the "minor" heart problem that had me "dead on the table" in 2000. Thanks to aircraft travel, cars and taxis, I waited 7 hours "on the table" for a surgeon skilled enough to "fix me" to fly into town. I love rural life, I love living simply in the woods... but the lives of the 3 I love the most were made possible by our societal and corporate infrastructure.

I am simply a simple man, a coal miner's grandson, who tries to have a perspective on who we are, where we are and where we can go. Quest for the best, and leave no bruises along the way, I say!

 

[Chalo]

Trains, trucks, and buses do not ruin city life, or despoil the scale and texture of a city. And they are operated by trained professionals who have their jobs on the line.

Car drivers impose horrible blight not only on themselves and other drivers, but on everybody else. And the hegemony of the car here is so great that there is no feasible mechanism by which a place can say, "enough, get out." Electric cars are just another manifestation of the disease. Make them 20mph electric cars and then we have some progress.

Europeans have closed a few of their city centers to cars, with great benefits. Business owners who originally opposed the whole idea now wish to be included in the affected areas, because it turns out that what's good for human beings is good for business too. Bogotá closes something like 300 miles of their streets and freeways to cars every Sunday and holiday. But in the USA we can't even get to where we can discuss it. It's like a religious thing for stupid Americans, which is to say almost all of them.

I have an easy principle to live by: If you can't live somewhere without using a car regularly, just don't live there. If more people lived that way, we'd have a lot more good places to live.

 

[hydro-one]

I agree with Chalo, personal cars and the way we use them have ruined our society, especially our cities. No one blinks when they hear of multi car pileups and kids getting run over by speeders in residential neighborhoods. kids are unsafe anywhere near roads, parents are scared of letting thier kids play. our neighbors are disconnected, actually our whole society is . we are so desensitised to car violence, pumped up on truck manliness, and propagandized to hate cyclists. Its a real sad, multi faceted issue, that i can only help solve by showing people how much fun i have on my ebike.


I havent drove my car in 6 years. but i have been told that riding a bike is a very selfish form of transportation.

I would like to see very small, electric cars , all weather capable, and yeah why not limit speed to 20mph in the city. i like it .
that combined with very sensible public transport (electric bus, train, and ebike).

mabye just throw a box of screws on the road, , dump some sugar in them tanks.........

 

[John in CR]

They're going to try to screw everyone for sure, well everyone who works for a living and has something to steal. Even the care industry is fighting what needs to happen with those ridiculous 3000+lb electric cars. That's not a real change.

In the meantime we can still get around their crap by building our own 2 or 3 wheel EV's. Until they slam the door on that we can bide our time until their new ideas for stealing our money affect enough people for a strike to work. I'm afraid that it has to get a whole lot worse before it gets better though.

As far as the thread title goes, the #1 reason I don't buy an electric car is a tie between the fact that they cost too much and they weigh too much.

John

 

[veloman]

Also because electric isn't as cheap as everyone wants to believe:
Lets compare e-bikes to gas bikes for a sec. 1320watt hours (44v 30ah) of the cheapest lipo out there: hobbyking lipo costs about $500: it lasts about 500 cycles so you pay about $1 per cycle. 1320 watt hours will get you about 35 miles. A two stroke bicycle of similar "watt draw" will get about 120mpg. Gas is $3 per gallon so 35 miles divided by 120mpg equals .29 gallons of gas times three dollars per gallon or about $1 per 35 mile "cycle": the same damn price as electric.

Let's look at my example then.
$450 for 'barely used' a123 50v 9ah cellman pack and charger. "2000 100% dod cycles" to 80% capacity (don't forget it still can be useful after that).
That's about $0.25 per cycle. I get about 22 miles range on a cycle of 80% dod.

So, that's 0.9 pennies per mile. How far can $0.25 get a 120mpg bike? 10 miles. So my point is that it's realistic to cost half as much as an ICE bike overall in the end, if you get quality lifepo4 and don't ride too fast. (~23mph)

A quality ICE motorized bike is one of the cheapest transportation options too. But when you add in maintenance time, noise, pollution, the ebike really pulls ahead IMO, for what I want.

My battery and ebike parts for my main ride are now completely paid for in gas savings, over driving my 35mpg Civic. (near 8k miles)