13s 14s 16s 48v battery what is optimal?

[SniperGaulois]

I had a ping battery with 16s previously, it ranged from 60v to 49v, generally around 51... this seems optimal for a 48v battery...

I am going to build a battery with panasonic LiNiCOMnO2 cells, should i go with 16s to be the same battery specifications as with pings?

 

[wesnewell]

No, they are two different chemistries with different voltages per cell. Typically most commercial 48V packs are 13s for 54.6V charged, but you could go 14s for 58.8, or 15s for 63V. Assuming the Panasonic cells are 4.2V charged and not 4.1V

 

[riba2233]

I had a ping battery with 16s previously, it ranged from 60v to 49v, generally around 51... this seems optimal for a 48v battery...

I am going to build a battery with panasonic LiNiCOMnO2 cells, should i go with 16s to be the same battery specifications as with pings?

What panasonic cells are those?

I would suggest 14S, you will be closer to 51 V average with 14S.

 

[dogman dan]

13 or 14 s. I have both, and definitely like the 4v more 14s best. Less slow at the very end of a ride.

 

[dnmun]

if you go 14S lipo then you can use the standard 48V lifepo4 charger. my little 48V headway charger would put out 58.8V exactly and was perfect for that. of course i sold it to someone else!!

 

[SniperGaulois]

Oh cool, thanks. I understand.

I will have to divide the pack into two 10ah packs because it's less explosive and I doubt there are a lot of 40amps 14s BMS that will handle the 18650 peak current.

 

[dnmun]

i don't follow what you mean about dividing the pack so it is less explosive. there is no risk at all of the lipo packs exploding. this is just made up drivel that is continually propagated here. if you use a 14S BMS it will be rated to handle specific charge and discharge currents and you wanna use one that protects the cans from exceeding the rated discharge specs.

 

[999zip999]

You would buy a 40 amp bms 60 amp peak. They make bms's many different spec's many different bms's.
Read more lot's of info here. Start with Battery F.A.Q. at top of page.

 

[SniperGaulois]

i don't follow what you mean about dividing the pack so it is less explosive. there is no risk at all of the lipo packs exploding. this is just made up drivel that is continually propagated here. if you use a 14S BMS it will be rated to handle specific charge and discharge currents and you wanna use one that protects the cans from exceeding the rated discharge specs.

Deviding it is convenient for versatility and for balanced placement on the bike, perhaps cheaper BMS on each one, I just look at the BMS on ebay, there were only two results.

I'm quite apprehensive about buying 18650's, tesla has a fuse on every one, and on a rocky terrain mountain bike they can rattle alot and abrade over time, i'd be worried that something could short out after 1-2 years of use,,, Have there been catastrphic events wiht 18650's on here? If i had a garage i wouldnt mind but it's a timber building shared with others, I can't see myself recharging it same as a Ping battery because half the building would go if there was a battery fire.

 

[dnmun]

if you currently have a ping pack why not just repair it and use it then? they are easy to repair and last a long time in spite of what people say about them.

 

[dogman dan]

Lots of 40 amps bms options I'm sure. That's not high amps at all really.

Nor will splitting the pack make it less likely to explode. Splitting the pack to carry it better can be done easy, 7s in each section, then connect to one 14s bms.

 

[dnmun]

yep, putting the battery into two sections on opposite sides in panniers is ok but you have to use a very large wire to carry the current between the two sections of the battery. if you use small wire to connect the two sections in series then the voltage drop on the wire will cause the BMS to detect the LVC under load prematurely.

you will also have to locate the sense wire for the top of #7 in the middle of that wire connecting the two sides so the delta V is split between the two cells on each side, #7 and #8.

 

[999zip999]

You may be better off buying a plug and play and go riding. Battery building is not toys play. Read more.

 

[SniperGaulois]

You may be better off buying a plug and play and go riding. Battery building is not toys play. Read more.

On another thread it sais that 14s BMS are less common i.e. "rare", there isn't a wide choice of them.

The panasonic battery is mostly PnP, it's already soldered, as a 14s8p, i have to put on some monitor wires, that's all.

Dnmun, Ping batteries are not fun to fix, that's why i am not buying another one, until they are not all glued and taped and soldered into an inextricable blob. the small thin tabs are agglomerated into large blobs of solder, and the cells are glued to each other with a kind of sticky back plastic. even the act of seperating two cells seems like mistreating them, let alone heating that much solder enough to ease it off. buying 8 new ping cells probably costs 160 euros anyway. I prefer to recycle it into some 12v batteries for various uses.

 

[dnmun]

i find them relatively easy to work on. it is not hard to melt the solder off the top of the tabs and expose the tabs so you can stand them up and then cut the little pcb subconnecter along the slot to free up the pouches. you can look at all the pictures on my ping pack rebuild threads to see how easy.

i have freed about 300 separate pouches that way. almost all of them i reused.

you can do whatever they think is best for you.

 

[auraslip]

14s lipo is way more fun than a 16s ping. 8 4s5ah packs and 4 6s5ah packs is like $260. Bitch to wire up and keep maintained but not much harder than 12s. Still, plan to spend about $500 after wiring, chargers, and other lipo costs.

Another benefit of 14s is that you can use lower voltage equipment. Lots of controllers and chargers are sub 72v. I got sick of buying chinese junk chargers, so I found a meanwell LED power supply to use as a charger that chargers my 14s pack to 4.15v a cell. And with 14s you don't have to worry so much about toasting your motor like with 16s, but you still have enough power for wheelies and other fun stuff.

 

[dnmun]

only hard to wire up if you are still stuck using RC chargers. 14S lipo BMS is as common as 16S lifepo4 . no problem and there is no reason not to charge to full charge. again, i repeat, if you don't know by now, go look at the video lecture that mitch pulled down and listen to that lecture so you can understand that is not the final voltage you charge to but the LENGTH OF TIME the cells are charged up to either 4.15 or 4.20V, it makes no difference. it is only the length of time the battery is at high voltage that promotes the parasitic reactions on the anode. it is all there in the lecture. no need for people to remain uninformed.

 

[SniperGaulois]

13 or 14 s. I have both, and definitely like the 4v more 14s best. Less slow at the very end of a ride.

I couldn't find a 14s bms that can handle 40 amps continuous, i know that my controller was previously drawing 35 amps fairly easily and i figure with better batteries i should get 40a because otherwise i'll be tripping the bms all the time if i have a 30a... except i didnt find a 14s bms that can handle >40amps, does someone have seen one?

 

[riba2233]

This one:


http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/14S-lithium-battery-protection-board-48v-lithium-battery-pack-BMS-30A-continuous-60A-peak-Discharge/313864_1741119929.html


Also, em3ev had one in stock, but removed BMS's from his site. Maybe you can still ask him if he has them.

 

[auraslip]

I'd buy the aliexpress one linked above. That way when it breaks in 3 months you won't be out too much money. Pretty cheap lesson IMO.

 

[SniperGaulois]

Oh my gosh that website has changed... Awesome! nice BMS. i saw it for 115 on another website with optional upgrades to the amp rating... wonder if higher amps is a tweak of this or a different bms. Thanks alot.