2000amp, 300v brushed controller is $300 in parts?

Joined
Oct 28, 2008
Messages
14,539
Location
Manhattan Beach, CA, USA
I've been thinking about making a giant brushed controller for a performance EV conversion. However, controller cost in the $4000-5000 range seems like a lot of money I would rather put towards a custom motor and high C-rate LiPo.

This chip is $4.10 in a quanity of 100pcs.

http://ixdev.ixys.com/DataSheet/DS100127(IXFK-FX160N30T).pdf

They claim 160amps continuous each, but let's de-rate them to 100amps for our 2000amps build. This means we need 20 of them. That's $82 in FETs.

Photo-flash caps have pretty good properties for use in a 300v controller. 50pcs of the 330v 80mfd variety is $31 bucks. I would pick up a hundred of them. The overall quantity of capacitance makes no difference, just the ESR, and going with a group of little caps like this works out for best performance.

http://cgi.ebay.com/80uF-330V-Radial-Electrolytic-Capacitors-50-PCS_W0QQitemZ160370979733QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item2556daf395#ht_3019wt_1026


Now you need a shunt of course, and there are tons of them available for cheap. A pair of these 1000amp shunts would work pretty nicely, because you would definitely want to be having at least two big 000awg leads in and out of the of the controller, so running a pair of shunts would make that more convenient. Make the end of the shunts also serve as the positive input power lug/terminal. :)

http://cgi.ebay.com/Weston-Current-Shunt-1000Amp-50Mv_W0QQitemZ320433788953QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item4a9b579819#ht_1618wt_950


Now it's a matter of some 000awg welding leads, some copper buss bars, scrap industrial heat sinks, solder, a pair of the $5 -7amp N-channel fet driver chips on flea-bay, and any old brushed E-bike controller to use as the brain (throttle input, switching signal, current limiting from the external shunt). I would guess another $100-150 for these parts.

Combine these parts with a lazy weekend of soldering with a 200w iron (big buss bars are tough to solder!), and you've got yourself a controller that will pump 800hp into motor and still have 38% current overhead left in the FET stage.


For those folks out there thinking about doing a performance EV, but budget limited, it seems very possible to DIY a controller for a lot of personal labor and a little bit of expense.


For something lower powered, pricing out the parts in an Alltrax controller, it looks like you could DIY the biggest Alltrax model for under $100 if you were willing to do some labor to save some cheddar.


Best Wishes,
-Luke
 
I'm in on this

i'm looking to do a car ev conversion when i have the funds avaliable!!

-steveo
 
Whats this :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: ....Luke considering a BRUSHED motor!!! did i read this correctly :: re-reads Lukes post ::
I DID :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: Luke...mate...you been out in the sun too long today OR have you fallen and hit your head again?
It's ok mate, we will get you well again, sit back relax stay still paramedics are on route :p :p :p :p

KiM
 
AussieJester said:
Whats this :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: ....Luke considering a BRUSHED motor!!! did i read this correctly :: re-reads Lukes post ::
I DID :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: Luke...mate...you been out in the sun too long today OR have you fallen and hit your head again?
It's ok mate, we will get you well again, sit back relax stay still paramedics are on route :p :p :p :p

KiM


LOL!, for a commuter application I wouldn't go brushed, but for a toy that just gets beat-on once in a while, and only for ~7 seconds at a time, I think brushed is an OK way to go for a lazy man trying to do it cheap :) It's not particularly good at anything, but it sure does make things simple :)
 
regmeister said:
I see Paul has released some directions for building his controller.

http://www.paulandsabrinasevstuff.com/EVstuff%20info/Kit%20Assembly%20Directions.pdf

http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthread.php/paul-sabrinas-cheap-144v-motor-controller-6404.html

http://www.paulandsabrinasevstuff.com/evmotorcontrollers.html


Thank you for the links, I checked them out, and that is a pretty nice baby version of what I'm planning to build. :) It gave me some good ideas on some of the nitty-gritty details that always take the most time on projects. Thank you for sharing those.
 
liveforphysics said:
LOL!, for a commuter application I wouldn't go brushed, but for a toy that just gets beat-on once in a while, and only for ~7 seconds at a time, I think brushed is an OK way to go for a lazy man trying to do it cheap :) It's not particularly good at anything, but it sure does make things simple :)

haha yeah... i realised that buddy i was just hassling you out i dont get too do it often LoL...Makes perfect sense Luke as your ideas always do.
Im no genious when it comes to things of an electrical nature as you know Luke, but even i know the brushed controller is a much simpler unit than a brushless controller...My guess is a brushless controller with the specs you outlined would be far far greater cost wise to?

KiM
 
I wish there were cheap(ish) available brushless motors for car sized EV conversions *sigh*

I'm also not a fan of brushed motors.
 
The same power controller in a brushless format would require roughly 6 times the parts, much more elaborate designs, and I wouldn't personally feel comfortable with just fudging everything together, because timing events to avoid a FET "pass-through" event would be critical. Brushed is so simple. You can make a brushed controller from a pot, a 555, a few resistors and a fet in 10 minutes. Making a brushless controller actually requires some skills :)
 
So whats the go then Luke, its feasible but you think you will take it on? Personally i would prefer to see
you finish your bicycle off and take that down the 1/4 mile, anything under 18 seconds will do for now Luke :: wink ::

ooooooor...you could sell your Turnigys too me so i can :p :p :p :p

oooh actually Matt emailed me yeaterday he got mail from HobbyCity they have the Turnigy 130kvs BACK IN STOCK again after
months of waiting!!! AND they will be the improved larger bearing jobs too im guessing!? LOOK OUT LOOKOUT Luke
Aussie dollar is strong and I have enough of them HAHAHA... :: wink wink :: I really just wont to
go one up on Methy to annoyz him LoL


KiM
 
Yep, they have skirt bearings now :) Very cool! I wish they had those when I got mine. It would have saved me a lot of work and expense.

I don't think I will be selling mine. I'm going to play with using them to power an electric supercharger and see how that goes.

That will be after I've replaced them with something monsterous of course ;)

It's good to have Methy on here to drive us to always stay 2-steps (huge steps) ahead of him :p It drives us to work harder and build bigger and better than we would on our own :) LOL!
 
Let's say you have a giant brushed controller. Now where are you going to find a practical brushed motor that sources the required power you want with a weight and size that you find acceptable?

I thought because a brushed motor is lower in efficiency than a brushless motor, that an equivalently powerful motor must be larger. I also thought they tended to be heavier, so I'm thinking....

a 2000 amp brushed motor + your bike = :shock:

Where's it going to fall off?

Joking aside, I really wonder how you plan to maneuver with the motor on a bike since I preconceive of something huge and heavy.

Also, are brushless sensored controllers really that much more hellacious? I wasn't aware pass-through/shoot-through events were a common problem with sensors.
 
swbluto said:
Let's say you have a giant brushed controller. Now where are you going to find a practical brushed motor that sources the required power you want with a weight and size that you find acceptable?

I thought because a brushed motor is lower in efficiency than a brushless motor, that an equivalently powerful motor must be larger. I also thought they tended to be heavier, so I'm thinking....

a 2000 amp brushed motor + your bike = :shock:

Where's it going to fall off?

Joking aside, I really wonder how you plan to maneuver with the motor on a bike since I preconceive of something huge and heavy.

Also, are brushless sensored controllers really that much more hellacious? I wasn't aware pass-through/shoot-through events were a common problem with sensors.

Lol! Not for my bike, for a 4 wheeled dragster. Brushed motors blow in about everyway, and would need to be much bigger and heavier of course if you wanted continous 800hp operation. I would be doing a custom motor, and just making it be able to take 7 seconds of operation before it gets to cool down and get new brushes. Kilacycle has a pair of little 6.7" diameter motors, and they manage to make 500+hp for for 7 seconds. My motor would be something along similar lines, except custom from the ground up rather than re-wound re-fitted forklift motors like kilacycle and the "warp" series motors use. They aren't bad motors, just kinda qwerky geometery for something that you want to reach high RPM.
 
you mentioned 100$ in parts for a 300-500amp alltrax replica controller. I AM DYING TO KNOW HOW TO BUILD THIS. I would appreciate links to how to build this and instructions on what components to buy.

thank you.
 
okay.

I now know how to do without your help Liveforphysics :p :p

http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthread.php/paul-sabrinas-cheap-diy-144v-motor-controller-6404.html
50 MHz two channel oscilloscope
Ten IRFB4110 mosfets
IXDD414PI mosfet gate driver
Five STTH6002CW freewheel diodes
Atmel STK500
ATMega8 microcontroller
7.5 to 76V in, 5V out DC-DC
7.5 to 76v in, 12v out DC-DC
Twelve TS-ED 200v 470uF Panasonic Capacitors
 
Back
Top