24v+20ah+500w conhis motor=100 mile range *55 mile tested

[bionicdan]

* I did 55 miles on this in blowy conditions and started hitting 3.v a cell and took almost the full packs capacity. I guess it did less than I expected as I got tired and the wind slowed me down but still a good range

Iv been googling electric conversions for months and keep finding myself here. I finnally ordered some bits and am now 80 percent through my build. I was adamant that I would not lose my 9 gears and rear disc and wanted a cheap conversion for small commutes and fun. Well I did 30 miles on this the other day to get a before conversion time lol. Nearly 2 bloomin hours.

I have a really fast racing bike too but after a getting knocked off my motorbike at 70mph and went into a car bonnet I cant manage the riding position or saddle,,,ouch. Here is my parts list I used to convert my bike

all prices inc delivery
MY1016 24V motor 19.99 new

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/24-VOLT-250-WATT-ELECTRIC-E-SCOOTER-MOTOR-24v-250w-/140491503816?pt=UK_Sporting_Goods_Scooters_LE&hash=item20b5f238c8#ht_1105wt_1031

350w 24v contoller £11

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220661663512&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT#ht_6765wt_1392

7kg each 12v 24ah deep cycle lucas gel x2 best offer £48 delivered

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=180591575923&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT#ht_2203wt_782

Throttle cut down to grip shift size £7

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=130425281953&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT#ht_5969wt_1928

£10 for a 90t minimoto sprocket, £3 for a chain. All that for £100 but I spent around a further £20 on convertings my rare 20mm axle forks to accept quick release wheels, aluminium plates,clamps and bolts etc. Once my forks are back on il take another picture but its looking fairly tidy so far after 2 days build time. I got a 16t freewheel to fit my 54mm holed sprocket perfectly and line up with the bolts like it grew there but didnt want to spend £30 on a cheap wheel with disc mount on one side and screw on the other just incase it didnt fit in my forks. Rear bmx hubs or track hubs (110MM O.L.N) are perfect for any other front forks but not mine as I have super fat legs that rub on the freewheel So for now I settled with no freewheel as my motor draws 9amp hours and I easily have two hours run time plus a backup lithium-ion to keep it spinning, I have left it a direct constantly engaged drive bolted to my disc brake.

Im new to this so one question if anyone is bored enough or knows the answer. My motor barely drags (when I run around the garden with a pair of forks going wooo it works) BUT if the wires to the motor are held together the motor almost jams like someone threw on a brake. If I run out of battery will I need to unplug the motor for any chance of getting home or without blowing my electrics with the power generated. Iv heard people complain that the bikes with hub motors drags bad when your out of battery, could this be an easy way to reduce the drag by simply unplugging it from the controller? I just wondered if anyone has experienced this or whether its just common knowledge that a newbie has not read about yet or that its not a problem once the circuits are powered down/throttle released.

All above has been mandatory but optionals include £50 charger/balancer imax b8, £15 7ah li-ion 12v, £10 indicators, £10 motorcycle generic handlebar switch (horn, lights,indicators and motor kill switch), £15 40w leds 1600 lumens. The charger runs from a 12v source or mains adaptor meaning i can charge at my destination or top the batteries up with 3.5ah each to stop sulphation.

I also got a 9 tooth sprocket to hit the magic 10/1 ratio. I figured that at 20mph 26 inchers wheels do 250rpm x10= 2500rpm at the motor, but due to my massive tyre Im still stuck at around 2000rpm not closer to 2500 as has been sugested is good for a my1016. Untill I find a better wheel il use vbrakes while the disc is otherwise occupied lol. I havnt got this up and running untill I find a batery box so if anyone has some helpful tips or things iv overlooked let me know Cheers for everyone posting on here its inspired many a nights head scratching to pick all my parts so far.

 

[Jeremy Harris]

The motor will have a lot of drag when not being powered, unless you disconnect it from the controller. What's happening is that the motor is acting as a generator when driven but not powered and the controller power FET has an internal diode that will be shorting it to ground.

The spark on connecting up is caused by the capacitors in the controller charging up. It shouldn't normally do any damage, other than to the connector/switch as you apply power. In this case I think something in the controller chose the moment of power-on to blow. The controller is almost certainly repairable, but to be honest it would probably be cheaper to get a new one.

We might be able to talk you through a repair, but would need some info to go on, like some photos of the wiring and the inside of the controller. My guess is you may be able to see the damaged parts whenyou open the case.

BTW, you are unlikely to get anything like 2 hours run time from that set up, I'm afraid. Those SLA batteries have a usable capacity of around 1/2 to 2/3rds the 1/20th C rated capacity when used at high discharge rates, so they will only deliver around 12 to 16Ah at best. This means your battery pack has a capacity of around 24V x 12Ah = 288 Wh, maybe as much as 24V x 16Ah = 384Wh. You probably need around 250W to 300W or so average power, so your run time is likely to be around 1 hour, maybe just a bit over if you take it gently.

Jeremy

 

[bionicdan]

Hi thanks for taking the time to reply. I think my first newbie no-no was to wire the small red ignition wire permanently on as I dont have a key switch yet. So the system wanted to be primed ready to go before the caps had even charged up. I have heard a switch is best after charging the circuit and also heard a resistor inline is good especially for big voltage systems. It looks like the circuit is coated in wax (yiyung yk40 thingy 350w 24v) and as I traced back from the ignition wire the first stressed out looking item was a G1 3 legged transistor/fet/diode in between the ignition wire and then the second 3 legged transistor finally going on to the caps which now dont charge. Its paired with a similar item that conducts (rectifies/flipflops) when tested with a digital multi meter but this one now fails any conductivity tests so il find one of those at some point. In the mean time I have two spare yk-40s on the way (one for the ladies bike).

As for the batteries I had put my details into a calculator (http://bikecalculator.com/veloUS.html)
that included frontal area, rider input etc etc and had only concluded 2 hrs run time due to being able to manage 1hr 40 mins (200w ish i think it was) leg input without help. I did 30 miles in 1 hours 40 on my racer but then looked like a drowned donkey. My aim is to half my input with a motor so I turn up to meetings in a fairly human state.

I understand the constraints of an sla battery by the battery makers online graphs but as my legs can do 2 hours at 15 mph on a nasty heavy bike I was only hoping to reduce my effort over that time. http://www.csb-battery.com/upfiles/dow01283933327.pdf
This said id get around 200w/18ah for an hour out of a cheaper branded 24ah battery and was hoping for 100w assistance over two hours without killing them entirely and then immediately hooking up my 7ah lithium to boost back up at my destination. My batteries are extreme deep cycle lucas 24ah range but stupidly bought them off ebay and turned up doa 12.1 volts My imax b8 revived them to 16-20 ah and I got a partial refund on half the cost.

I decided as my build went so well with drilling and shaping bits of aluminium with hand tools, with hands that now contain fused bones instead of joints....aggghhhh he he That I deserved a test run. I hooked up a 12v 40ah erm whats it called....ps iv had heavy brain damage and go blank from time to time...RELAY thats it, to one battery and then to my handle bar switch. 14kgs of battery in a laptop bag in the wind and rain I got to the road self powered pushing what felt like the wind on a bad day (or the geared down motor in reality). Got to 10mph pushed the button and god or an imaginary father pushed his hand gently into my back like the day I lost my stabilisers and hit around 17mph and stopped pedalling asap. Before I knew it I was 1 mile down the road at tesco express but felt voltage sag very fast. I pulled up waited for the traffic god knows how long to wobble out into the road again with one leg feeling like it had elephantitus with the batteries rubbing on and set off with almost as much vigor as the first mile. So far id done 2 miles with pretty much no effort but knew with my sulphated batteries 5 miles at this sort of current would be the most id get. Id love to have seen these at full 24ah in new condition over a full 30 miles fixed to the bike but alas I got ebay bitten.

The gell cells where only a test to make sure my design worked and am now designing a battery from ping that incorporates a 9 wire jst-xh connector to fix to my imax b8 charger which in turn runs from solar power (11 to 18v). As much as I wanted help covering 30 miles I also wanted to be zero-ish carbon. I have a 40w panel that runs all my chargers and lights in one room and the lights in my summer house with a 55 ah agm battery as a reserve. Once My battery arrives I can now use this to charge my 20ah ping battery with out the need for 12v 240v invertors or such. Iv heard so many bad issues with bms systems and postal times for replacing bad ones Ping kindly agreed to add on a second bms 9 pin wire to a 20 ah 24v pack so this anxiety can be no more. He also agreed my balance charger will work very well with his system and would guess his BMS only as complicated as it needs to be to get the job done. Plus I can charge up at a mates house, on peoples cars or even when me and the girlfriend go camping for the weekend with 12v only supply. http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/store/uh_viewitem.asp?idproduct=5606

I wonder how many of you are solar enthusiasts as well as get to work with less effort and sweat enthusiasts? Maybe Ping should offer this service as standard as its a great feeling to have solar powered devices even if they are only nokia N8's and torches lol. My girls bike is now getting the gell cells and we can have long rides through the woods without her moaning at me for going too fast as we will both be speed limited by our motors what bliss Dammit now I canT race off cos the motor holds me back I need a freewheel system quick he he Hope you all have fun on your machines, Dan

 

[etard]

I like your bike, but I was wondering why you opted to keep the rear disc brake over mounting everything to the rear and being able to use the front brake. As you know, most of the brake force can be applied to the front wheel on a bicycle (or motorbike) and very little can be used on the rear without loss of traction. A unique approach and on the cheap, bravo!

 

[bionicdan]

Changing my back wheel seemed to mean getting an 8 speed freewheel if I was lucky enough to make it fit in the gap. As my frame wont spread I was worried id end up with 6 or 7 gears. Now that would be fine but id then need a 7 speed chain and a 7 speed gear changer plus deraillier. Also my frame has no Vbrake mounts and finding an adaptor to fit seemed fruitless for uk 6 bolt spacing. Plus on conhis.com (or ebay maybe) it mentions in broken english that if you use the space to wedge 7 gears on the wheel you will not have room for a disc too. So I thought right il put it on the front.

It became clear half way through that my forks are so big in diameter that they get in the way reducing space for a disc and cog. For now while im new to this and testing Iv put Vbrake mounts back on. I can get my bike up on its front wheel at 30mph on v brakes so 15mph with added weight might be a similar situation. I might now consider a 500w conhis motor when I hear back from him as to whether he can supply a rear wheel with the threads on one side only to mount a screw on disc and then fit to my forks. It looks like it will only fit with one thread mount on, not both like he now supplies them as its just too wide. *the rear hub fitted fine in my front forks with some space to spare as my 20mm axle is 110mm oln not 100mm oln as normal bikes. Plus a disc might fit but I cant find the right sized screw on adaptor for my 203mm 6 bolt disc

I wanted to see how much power 24v 250w motors could really give so it can all be charged off my solar system at home. Now im happy with the speed/performance My girlfriends bike will get the my1016 and sla's for the one ride a month we go on in the winter so she can keep up lol. My 20ah ping battery is on its way and new controllers

 

[bionicdan]

Here is me on fresh batteries. Well as fresh as they get when they have been sat dead for over 2 years and not cycled at all yet. Is my ping here yet...is it now? now? now?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m74_8twRiLk

 

[bionicdan]

Just to let you know the riding experience of a cheapo conversion like this. On sla batteries I did 15 miles at w.o.t. at around 18-20mph taking around 45 mins. It does 13 to 16 mph without pedalling depending on the winds direction and 18-23 if you match the motor with your legs. I live on the coast and 24mph head winds feel like it will stop you if you didnt pedal too. Also it only feels happy in nearly the hardest gear (26) spinning hard and fast, try and cruise at 15 or less and it feels like your fighting the motor. It doesnt like uphills and quickly runs out of steam up steep ones meaning you just put it in an easy gear and half throttle it to keep the motor turning as I have no freewheel incorporated yet. I really think my motors 9 tooth sprocket should be around 7 as I overheated one of the my1016 motor bearings after 7 miles fighting the winds. It freed up after 3 mins rest and are only roller skate bearings anyway so I have some abec 9's lined up for it. When I got home my 24v pack took 16ah to get fully charged again after it dropped to around 24.4v.

I have my ping battery (2 weeks from order to delivery!!) and now it does 16mph to 21 without pedalling and 19 to 24mph if you do pedal. I did the same 15 miles but not quite at w.o.t. as it pulled more than the slas and used around 12ah. I was unfortunate enough to get caught up at the local shops in the middle of some vosa/police force camera giving people tickets right next to where id locked my bike thinking they were getting lunch. They never looked twice at my bike and even people stood next to it havnt worked out its electric but do look confused trying to work out whats not quite right so hopefully I wont get spotted doing over 15mph and get in trouble.

Mr ping is the man. He did me a bit of a custom wire job and answered all 16 of my questions within 14 hours before and after id received my battery. My bike went from 39kg with sla 24ah to 29kg with the ping. The forks were always half compressed with 14kgs sat on the crossbar and made the steering response really slow.

Be warned that a week after delivery a TNT tax bill came for £23. This was never mentioned by the website or the tnt delivery guy. You should factor this cost into your budget when choosing battery vendors.

Next I might try a hub motor as I feel it wont fight me like a small motor doing 2100rpm does but as a starting point the original set up has been real fun and would be fine for 10 miles with good condition 18ah gel cells. Dont get 24ah 14kgs worth of battery as it will upset your bike and balance especially if your bike is like mine and has no low down rear rack fixing areas. If anyone wants some ideas how this might be incorporated onto their bike let me know and il see if i can suggest some ideas as this seemed really easy to work out as im mechanically minded after rebuilding bikes and motor bike engines since I was 14. Happy biking Dan

 

[bionicdan]

Still waiting for my 500w conhis motor after a gale force wind over many miles set my motor on fire lol. So the spare zy1016 and kit has been transfered to my other halfs shopper and does twice the milage due to smaller wheels and a three speed sturmey archer hub tied to the motor mounted on the front. Finally it seems I have the motor in its preferred rpm range and am getting well over 2 hours run time

http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=25765

 

[AussieJester]

That front wheel chain drive made me shudder, what would happen if
you threw a chain or broke a chain and it wrapped itself around the front hub
jamming things up...at speed :-|

Front hub is definitely a better setup, when compared to front wheel chain drive IMO

KiM

 

[bionicdan]

I had planned to have a freewheel but the whole project with the chain was just to test if I liked assistance and to see how far it would go etc. My gf has the old system on her shopper now and if the chain goes wrong the freewheel will just cut in. I used to keep the chain very tight and perfectly aligned as this was not ideal for a long term solution as our bum clenching indicates when you see minimal clearance between a 5mm alloy plate and 90t chainwheel.

Funny enough in a way I prefer my girls shopper with chain drive as it has a freewheel that lets you just ride as a normal bike without pushing a big bugger of a hub motor when you feel like poodling along leg powered for a bit. I often feel like im fighting my hub motor especially at top end (it runs out of torque at 18mph) but also if the battery ever ran out. Oh yeah the old my1016 was also geared to do 24mph but thats illegal anyway doh.

Just like cars each model seems to have its merits but one doesnt have them all. I think they do internal freewheel motors but I didnt want gear wizzy noises or things to go wrong or spend god knows how much cash lol.

£280 on a 20ah lifepo4 £112 for hub etc and im a happy man doing 15mph up the steepest hills silently that I used to do 9mph up and a so far unmeasurable range as it just wont run out

 

[John in CR]

If you do that much pedaling and pedalist speeds are acceptable, then the motor you need is a geared hubmotor that freewheels with very nearly the low spinning resistance of a regular bike wheel. Because they freewheel it also gives you a risk free option for a front hubmotor. They are much smaller and lighter than a direct drive hubbie like you have now, and at low power like you are running they will be nearly as silent, so other than the batteries and some extra cables it will be hard to tell that your bike is electric. The Cute motors, Bafang, MAC, BMC, and others are examples of geared hubbies.

Get that chain off of your GF's bike. Even with the freewheel the chain can get wrapped up and lock that front wheel. Pick up 2 geared hubs and another brushless controller. Then sell your direct drive hub, and the change to something suiting your needs and better safety would be very low cost.

 

[bionicdan]

Well its done plenty of miles and I really think I can manage as my bike goes miles and hers is a nice slow creation for her job. Geared motors are well over £112 and waste energy so think I prefer the simplistic reliability and efficiency of direct drive.

Just stop and think about the physics of what would happen if the chain broke and wrapped around the front cog and/or motor. The cog is attached to a freewheel so even if you jam a crow bar across the fork into the cog it just starts spinning and does not slow the drive wheel what so ever. So if the chain wasnt just flung off, which is most likely, it would either go between the fork leg and cog = freewheel just starts turning or goes down the spokes side = the cog will be forced to rotate with the wheel but as its not attached to the motor anymore again wont slow the wheel.

Im the only one silly enough to do 30mph on it and feel that iv put it through double the force and double the speed she will ever do so I feel its fit for going door to door collecting info for the government on her job and never takes it out of 1st gear which sees her never going over 14mph, half what iv taken it too without incident.