48 volt upgrade to 60 volt help

[ppbandit]

Hi all,

Can anyone help, i currently have a papa motor kit comprising of a 26 inch wheel, with 48 volt 1000 watt 9 c motor and a 48 volt 30 amp controller with a 48 volt 15 amp ping battery. It currently hits about 30 mph i have contacted Ping battery to purchase a 12 volt 15 amp battery to take it to 60 volts, which i am hoping will allow me to hit a speed of 37-38 mph. I was wondering if i need to upgrade my controller and throttle and how to wire the batteries up. Any help will be appreciated sorry if this has already been covered i have had a little look through the forums but could not find anything.
Thanks in advance Pete.

 

[skeetab5780]

You will need to upgrade your controller. You more than likely have 63v caps that will get cooked with the full charge voltage of both pings in series. You can keep your throttle if you like but the battery gauge on it will not be correct after the swap.

 

[ppbandit]

Hi, could you recommend a controller that would be suitable and where from, battery gauge is not a problem as i have a cycle analyst. Cheers Pete.

 

[dnmun]

why did you not just buy a 60V lifepo4 pack instead? do you understand that the nominal voltage is not the same as the actual pack voltage?

a 60V lifepo4 pack is 20S and charges to 72V with 3.60V for balancing and to 73.5V for full charge.

your controller can be upgraded by replacing the 63V input caps with 100V caps and the power resistor that drops the voltage to the regulator needs to be increased also.

you can take the two batteries apart and recombine them into one pack of 20S and then use a 20S BMS to balance and protect the 60V pack.

 

[ppbandit]

Hi had the bike 2 years on 48 volt and now feel ready to upgrade and the cheapest way to do that is buy the 12 volt battery. Not sure i have the skill to change the caps where can i get a controller from anyone.

 

[dnmun]

did ping already send you the 12V battery or can you still change the order to buy a 60V pack instead?

if you are not familiar with batteries or able to do work on these things it would be best to just buy it already built.

your 48V pack is 2 years old already so it will not have the same behavior as the newer 12V pack when in series. plus then you have two sets of mosfets to push the current through.

 

[ppbandit]

Hi,
No i have not got the 12 volt battery yet, so conclusion is that if i do this it is better to just get a new 60 volt ping battery, ok no probs.
Thanks.
I still need help with what speed controller to get for the 60 volt 15 amp or 20 amp ping battery, ie what make what amps and where from?

Cheers Pete.

 

[dnmun]

no, it is a problem because it costs money. alotta money and i do understand that, but using batteries in series is difficult to manage.

each battery has it's own BMS to protect and balance it so they will not always be in sync so you will end up frustrated by it until you learn more about batteries.

each one would have a separate charger, and all the current flows through both BMS output mosfets so you have extra loss of energy in discharge too.

there are lotsa 100V controllers around but then you would have to figure out the correct wiring of the phase wires and the hall sensors to make the new controller work on your current motor.

do you have a cycle analyst or wattmeter or voltmeter on the battery during the discharge? you may have a lotta voltage sag from trying to make your present battery push more current than it is capable of and it may be easier to add a second 48V pack in parallel so you can get enuff current without the voltage sag so that would give you a higher top speed which seems to be what you are after.

if you spend more time learning how batteries are built and how controllers are built it may be easier for you to see a way to get there without extreme costs.

so maybe start out learning to use a voltmeter and soldering iron and developing a few skills that will serve you well later when the bike has problems you need to solve yourself. they always fail when you are the longest distance from home too so having a solid knowledge base will give you the best chance of fixing it on the road. jmho

i will look for my 72V infineon controller upgrade thread too so you have something to read about how to upgrade your present controller to high voltage, and i am about to post up a thread on my current battery build which may make it easier for you to see how to add cells to your current 16S pack to get to the 20S you wanna try out.

 

[ppbandit]

Hi yes i do have a cycle analyst on current system.Ok thanks for the info looks like i need to read a lot more about how batterys work, if you could link my to your controller page that would be appreciated thanks everyone.
Cheers Pete.

 

[dnmun]

how much sag do you now have a full speed? how many amps are you drawing from the ping at this point? pings get saggy with age as the internal resistance builds up so that may be a lot of the problem now that could be solved by getting wider. or you could add some Hobby King lipo in parallel with it's own BMS and isolate them during charging but run them in parallel during discharge. 14S lipo would work there.

my upgrade thread from long ago:

http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=10222

 

[dogman dan]

You will still need to limit your amps to about 25 amps when you add 12v.

The cheapest way to do it might have not been the easiest. Ideally, you'd have bought a 20s bms and charger to go with your ping pack. Then you'd have a one plug 60v battery.

Because you will need to limit amps, you won't see 40 mph. But 35 mph might be there. You won't get what you really wanted, the zip of 72v 40 amps. The ping will never tolerate that amps. This is why we risk it, and use lico.

Grin has some real nice controllers that do 36-72v. But you should be able to find a cheap 72v controller on ebay that will work fine, once you sort out the wire order.

 

[ppbandit]

mmmmmmm Might be time to start again and get a new system, can any one recomend best bits motor battery and controller to get to 40mph then, or send me some links, i am slowly going through the forum myself.
Cheers Pete.

 

[999zip999]

? Where do you live ?

 

[wesnewell]

Welcome to ES****Do this before your first post or now (it's retroactive)*****
Please go to the User Control Panel, select Profile, and then enter your city, state/province, and country into the Location field (country minimum) and save it. Once done, your location will appear in every post so you won't have people asking where you are ever again. This will help people help you. Example: Wylie, TX, USA. or just USA, but country as a minimum, and country is the most important. There are many cities with the same name all over the world. Without knowing what country you are in it's hard to make any recommendations. Thank you.

 

[dogman dan]

The cheapest way to get into the 40 mph club is just about any direct drive bike hubmotor, 72v 40 amps controller, and whatever battery will take the 40 amps for more than a few cycles.

20s RC lico batteries from hobby king are often the choice, because of low initial cost and high c rate.

But if you use the cheaper motor, stop by 10 miles. 12 miles at 40 mph will melt er down.

For now, if you can limit amps with your CA, then you could take your 48v ping, then add 6s lico in series, to get to about 72v. Limit amps to 25 or 30 amps, and go easy on the throttle. At cruise, you should be pulling amps the ping can stand, and be going very close to 40 mph. There is no problem with stringing some no bms battery in series with your ping. Connect the lico to your red discharge wire, so the current is not 72v flowing out of the bms.

Then later with mo money, get more strong battery.

 

[m4s73r]

Wow it only took Dogman to answer about controllers.

Op here is where you want to go for controllers
http://www.lyen.com./
the one you want is proly this one
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=17683

 

[dogman dan]

My favorite lyens controller is actually the small 20 amps 72v one. It works great, it's thrifty, and any battery can handle it. But it only gets you 35 mph, and take off is quite sluggish compared to 40 amps. What I really like about it though, is it won't melt the cheap dd motors. I can melt motors really easy in my climate, if I go off road. I just cannot run the 40 amps controller, and ride dirt in 110F temps.

Really cheap 72v 40 amps controllers abound on ebay. I have one in 48v on my cargo bike. I also have two of the lyens 12 fet controlers one in 72v, one in 100v. A very good choice if you have the cash for one. I got the feeling you didn't have a thou to get this done.

 

[ppbandit]

Thanks for all the replys, i have to be honest this is all a bit over my head which is why i opted for a kit version lol i will keep researching till i learn more, lyen controllers look good tho.

 

[wesnewell]

Any of the cheap 72V 1500W controllers will work fine up to 100V. Like this one.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Electric-Bicycle-Brushless-Speed-Motor-Controller-72V-1500W-For-E-bike-Scooter-/360643164862