48v 20ah Mr. Lau Chan / Lifepo4.hk pack arrived (May '09)

[needWheels]

My 48v 20ah pack just arrived via EMS from Mr. Lau Chan / Lifepo4.hk (Emma?)
It's the 18650 model with 224 cells inside.

Let's just say we are not starting off on the right foot.

EMS guy practically ran away after I signed for it, I figured maybe he was just busy.
Then I looked more carefully at what I had just gotten.

If this package was solid cardboard when it shipped, it had the living tar beaten out of it.

It's like a brown paper bag, ripped clean through in some places and held together by red string.

Fortunately I've just gotten a new cellphone with a halfway decent camera, so photos soon.

But here's the scary part - two of the edges of the package were soaked through with what was hopefully only water.

I can't tell if the insides got wet, they might have dried, the wetness can't be from local rain because we haven't had any for a couple weeks.

There was only a handful of foam buffer inside as you will see shortly but it is dry - would it dry faster than the cardboard?

I appear to have gotten an upgrade BMS compared to previous photos I have seen, it seems like the nicer one that CammyCC and Ping use with the board covering it to protect it, an inch or two in width.

Do duct tape packs normally feel "clammy" and cooler to the touch or is that wetness?

Should I proceed to test voltages or might it be compromised? Ugh.

 

[needWheels]

Outer box, or should I say paper bag at this point, it's barely holding together.

Oh and the dangling red string off the package - I didn't do that, it came like that.
The red string ON the package apparently are suppose to be handles of sorts - unless it unravels of course during transit

Just for laughs notice how the fragile sticker is torn through so you can't read it - again it came like that, I had not done anything at this point...

View attachment box1.jpg

View attachment box2.jpg

 

[dogman dan]

Hoo boy, I can't say ping wrapped mine any better, but that thing really does look like it bounced down the stadium steps. Delivered by the pet detective maybe?

 

[needWheels]

I'm really glad you are here dogman because you are the optimist to my pessimism so please find a silver lining for me

Inside shot, notice the wetness on only those two edges, not the whole box, but it's soaked completely through, I didn't even need a knife to open the box, I literally just used my hands to pull it apart.

Also note the somewhat dinged corner of the battery, but that edge was INSIDE the packaging and foam, so how did that happen:

 

[needWheels]

Oh guess what, the BMS apparently had a lot of force put on it because the vertical standoff is crushed and tilted a little.

The board on top and underneath is starting to crack at the screws for the standoff. But it's not going into a PCB so even if it does crack, it won't be fatal to the BMS, just annoying to me.

Note the little impressions into the pack tape on the left - I have no idea what that's from, there's nothing inside the box that could have made that kind of shape. It's like the nails in someone's workbench?

View attachment bms1.jpg

 

[needWheels]

I'll have to go back and take some more BMS photos, maybe I will unscrew the top too for a look at the board.

But meanwhile what really caught my eye is that he used to write 3C max on the side.

Now this one says 2C for the max. Interesting. So what was pictured on ebay has changed.
Normally that is immediately disputable via PayPal/ebay but if I did that, I'd have to ship it back and he would just sell it again.

(In fact it occurs to me, any of our packs could have been previously sold and returned and we'd never know.)

View attachment side1.jpg

 

[needWheels]

Okay I took more photos of the BMS and the charger, waiting for them to copy over and I will crop and post soon.

I put the 25 pound pack (yeah I weighed it, wow this puppy is heavy) onto paper towels to see if the clammy-ness of the duct tape was just my imagination or if the paper would get wet. So far the paper is completely dry. So it's just the duct tape feeling.

Notice in the photo just above, the red wire coming out of the pack at a sharp angle?
Well the insulation is pulled off the wire at that point and I don't think it happened in shipping.

Any chance that because the charger says 4806 that I got a 6amp charger?

I think he's upgraded the BMS and the charger on his packs!? That would be good right?
But he still uses the old photos on ebay which is a bad idea.

Oh and the red white and black wires are super thick. They say 8 gauge on them - BUT because I can see the copper in some areas, like coming out of the pack and soldered on the BMS, the copper doesn't look as thick as the insulation makes it seem.
What's the proper thickness in mm for 8 gauge wire?

 

[needWheels]

Charger is 7.5 x 4.5 x 2.5 inches and says PLC4806B on the outside(for future googlers)
LiFePO4 Battery Universal Smart Charger
and has the ultra fake CE symbol on it which really means "Chinese Export" (seriously)
instead of what it's really supposed to mean http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CE_mark
(meaning safety, health or environmental requirements have been met, but it's fake)

Inside board says JK4806C 2008.05.01

I will ask my landlord or one of my neighbors to translate the Chinese tomorrow.

It worries me it only says 220v / 50hz on the back, should I be worried?
(It does have the North American plug)

Also it's unlikely low quality 18650 cells can take a 6a charge regularly, what are the expert's feelings on that?

View attachment 2
View attachment charger2.jpg
View attachment charger3.jpg

 

[needWheels]

Fake 8 guage wire? Notice how thick the jacket is but copper strands are just not that thick, maybe 10 guage...

View attachment bms2.jpg

View attachment battery2.jpg

 

[needWheels]

There really is a decent heatsink on the (power transistors?) on this BMS.
I've read complaints about early BMS from Mr Lau but this one seems better.

I don't know if the numbers mean anything so I enhanced them for the pros to see.
IRF3710 814P

View attachment bms3.jpg

 

[needWheels]

It suddenly dawned on me where those impressions in the battery came from, it's the screwed in the bms pressing into it - but there was so much pressure during shipping at some point that it cracked the plastic near the top right screw.

View attachment bms4.jpg

 

[needWheels]

I have no idea - is this halfway decent quality? Why does it say A in one place and then B- / B- in another?
(and what does that mean about A grade vs B grade BMS anyway?)

BTW what are those ten long lines in parallel ?

There is also a very large version attached...

View attachment bms5.jpg

 

[needWheels]

The battery directly reads 53.2 volts.

I am uncertain how to test the individual groups? Can someone enlighten me exactly how to do it?

Positive goes where? Negative where?

 

[needWheels]

By the way, the senders signature is "Ray"

Also it shows 2194 yuan as the shipping charge - which if I read that correctly is $320 US ?!?!
Hopefully I missed a decimal place in there because that's a crazy amount of money.

Took a week to get here, 2 days in customs.

 

[needWheels]

I just test mounted it on my bike. LOL,
this thing is huge and heavy, well any pack this capacity would be but I just didn't have a grasp on how much mass it had.

I think my future holds a 12-15ah high C pack instead. Way too massive.

 

[needWheels]

I just noticed that the charger and the BMS look EXACTLY like CammyCC's:

http://www.superetrade.com/images/cammycc/bicycle battery/pic/cc1.jpg

Only thing different in the ebay photos is that CammyCC attached the female 3 prong while Mr. Lau shipped it separately


Which reminds me that I still don't understand exactly how to wire this, I don't understand why the charger plug can't be simultaneously connected while the battery is wired as long as the charger and the output are not running at the same time.

Can't I permanently connect #1 and #3 in this diagram?
http://lifepo4.hk/LiFePO4%20Guide.htm
(in my case the black wire is white for added confusion)

 

[jimw1960]

The shipping condition looks par for the course. If it is any consolation, I bought a 36v/15ah Mr. Lau (jimmywu) battery last fall and it is holding up OK after a couple hundred miles and a few dozen charge cycles. I get about 25 miles range off of it if I pedal along. The BMS on yours looks beefier. The voltage sounds right; that works to 3.3v per parallel group. You don't need to worry about the 220vac/50hz label; it should work fine.

 

[needWheels]

Thanks for the feedback jimw1960, that is good to hear.

I suspect your 36v 15ah is far lighter than this though, lol

Maybe I should look at 36v 15ah myself, what kind of motor you use I suspect brushless which is not my case unfortunately.

 

[pwbset]

It worries me it only says 220v / 50hz on the back, should I be worried?
(It does have the North American plug)

Also it's unlikely low quality 18650 cells can take a 6a charge regularly, what are the expert's feelings on that?

The two chargers I just got from ecitypower say the same thing, but are fine in my 110v outlets. 6a charging into 20ah isn't a big deal I would think any crap 18650 could handle that. Can you tell if they are Valence Saphion cells? I'm sure your fine.

 

[needWheels]

Can you tell if they are Valence Saphion cells? I'm sure your fine.

I'm not brave enough to cut it open at this time. Give me a month or so of break in.
I might even be reselling it after the summer so I probably should keep it intact.

If valence are higher quality then I highly suspect these would not be using them.

 

[needWheels]

Delivered by the pet detective maybe?

Call me slow but I *just* got that reference
Hmm, my dog is missing.... :wink:

 

[needWheels]

I have to leave for the night but if someone can please tell me how to test the voltage for each one of the 16s group of cells I would like to do that before I charge it and take it for a short break-in ride tomorrow.

I suspect it's done at the little leads to the BMS? Do I unplug the BMS?
Are those little wires all positive so my meter goes to the pack output negative?

I really am scared of frying 1. myself 2. the bms 3. my meter

 

[jimw1960]

Thanks for the feedback jimw1960, that is good to hear.

I suspect your 36v 15ah is far lighter than this though, lol

Maybe I should look at 36v 15ah myself, what kind of motor you use I suspect brushless which is not my case unfortunately.

Right now, I'm just using a crystalyte 408 brushless motor. I have a 48v Ping battery on the way for my commuter bike. Then I plan to move the 36v system to my chopper project, which I hope to post a thread on in the near future, and get a geared BMC or Ezee hub to go with that.

 

[jimw1960]

I have to leave for the night but if someone can please tell me how to test the voltage for each one of the 16s group of cells I would like to do that before I charge it and take it for a short break-in ride tomorrow.

I suspect it's done at the little leads to the BMS? Do I unplug the BMS?
Are those little wires all positive so my meter goes to the pack output negative?

I really am scared of frying 1. myself 2. the bms 3. my meter

Try putting the negative lead to main ground wire and positive to each of the 16 leads that go to the balancing plug on the bms. Voltmeters have such high impedance, there is not much chance of frying anything unless you accidentally short across something. Touching two balancing leads at the same time should not cause any kind of short since the potentials are nearly identical. I'll have to try the same thing on my Mr. Lau battery when I get home tonight.

 

[sangesf]

I've got a 24v 30ah pack from Mr. Lau.

I've got ~ 2500 miles in 6 months and it still has 100% of it's capacity. MAX distance I've EVER gotten out of it is 31 miles which is crazy good, considering its on a 250w motor and has to push almost 300lbs. (100lb bike) + (180lb me) + (20 or so pounds of other stuff)

Average ride usually gives me max 27 miles(by the way that's no pedaling). 99% of the time I do 90% DOD. I have (doing the math - 2500 miles / 25 miles per charge on avg) = 1000 Charges!

So far, so good. 1000 Charges 100% Capacity (Crosses Fingers)

LiFePo4 (in my mind) has lived up to it's hype.

GO LiFePo4!

I did have a 24v 20ah pack from Mr. Lau as well, and it gave me 18miles per charge.