4s hardpack vs 6s softpack?

[EdwardNY]

Did I make a huge mistake by buying 6s turnigy softpacks instead of the much cheaper 4s hard packs? I only bought the 6s packs because they were available at the time of purchase while the 4s packs were not.
Being that I now ordered 27 packs, I already lost close to $200 dollars.

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=18631

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=16207

6s price = 42.66
4s price = 23.65

4s per cell price = 5.91
6s per cell price = 7.11


First the hard packs are probably more robust in an ebike, being damaged less. I already damaged one pack due to a possible cell puncture.
The 4s give you more voltage configuration options.
With the 4s packs you could possibly combine them to an 8s pack and this would allow me to charge my packs at a higher voltage on RC hobby chargers.

It just bothers me that I'm stuck with the more expensive and less robust 6s packs now. I am hoping someone can maybe tell me of an advantage of a 6s soft case pack.

 

[ian.mich]

other than size, weight, simplicity (less paralleling) there isnt one.

 

[Ykick]

My concern about hardpacks - hard to tell when they go puffy until things are significantly distorted and poking through. Cell tabs can easily short when pouches swell so it's my opinion softpacks might be easier to detect puffers.

Other than that, fewer connections but really it comes down to price/performance and that can vary greatly depending on stock.

 

[wesnewell]

I run 4s packs at 24s and charge as 12s. I had to make adapter balance cables to turn 3 4s packs into 2 6s balance cables. So I run at 24s2p, but charge as 12s4p. No need to do that using 6s packs, but I really like the price of the 4s packs. I've also considered thermal runaway. Hoping that if it ever happened the extra spacing and plastic between packs might help. But I mainly did it because I'm a cheap sob and you can't beat the price of them. And cheaper to replace one if you have a cell failure.

 

[chroot]

I run 4s packs at 20s, and I am using Methods Complete Hobby King Lipo Protection Kit very worth investment and I haven't any trouble with 4s hardcase. None sign of puff ever since and I am a cheap! :lol:

I occasion hit LVC few times, some of 4s LiPo hit 3v cut off and the temperature felt COLD! *unbelievable* Seriously, MUST HAVE Methods HVC/LVC modules! I am speaking of my experience with 4s hardcase and I also have old 5s softpack in past and got bad puffed like balloon before I went to 4s hardcase.

 

[el_walto]

The 6s is better. Less wires to mess up. Hardpacks are just soft packs in a case.

 

[ian.mich]

I run 4s packs at 24s and charge as 12s. I had to make adapter balance cables to turn 3 4s packs into 2 6s balance cables. So I run at 24s2p, but charge as 12s4p. No need to do that using 6s packs, but I really like the price of the 4s packs. I've also considered thermal runaway. Hoping that if it ever happened the extra spacing and plastic between packs might help. But I mainly did it because I'm a cheap sob and you can't beat the price of them. And cheaper to replace one if you have a cell failure.

Currently i'm bulking charging to 100V w/ dual meanwells and balancing via 6x "4S" JST connectors and a few battery medics. How did you build the harness that converts 3x 4S taps into 2x 6S? It's fairly straightforward but what setup has worked for you.

 

[Trackman417]

Hardbacks FTW. Really great for those of use who don't have ready access to foam and such for protecting. Along with what Ykick said. No being able to see the packs puff is something to worry about. However, if you keep an eye on all of the individual cells on a regular basis, you would be able to weed out that troublesome pack in a week or two of careful watching. You can't beat the modularity of these things though. Just duct tape the packs together and wire up accordingly. Now if only they made a more usable 6s hardcase pack. The wires do tend to be a problem after having 10 of them wired up with your standard parallel/series plug

 

[leffex]

Just starting to use 4s hardpacks right now. First try. 0.33 charge rate is what i will use or less, packed with tape for 3x4s packs for 5ah brick.

Bought batteries January and February.


Had to do a emergency lipo battery because my nimh just fused itself somehow

This is a nice link also posted elswhere on es
http://www.rchelicopterfun.com/parallel-lipo-charging.html

 

[dogman dan]

I like the 6s myself for one simple reason. I need 6s for my lawnmower, so 4s wouldn't run my bikes and my mower.

Another reason, stock keeps getting bought out in the 4s. I was thinking about trying 4s this time, and getting a few 2s packs to make up the mower pack, or using cells from a defect 4s pack.

Then dammit, my 6s order never shipped. It was in stock when I ordered, but now it's not. At this moment, at the USA warehouse, getting hard to get anything at all.

I don't really see a big advantage to hardpacks myself. It's just so damn easy to cut up a political sign to make your own box for the whole bundle. But for some cases it could be best, like if you tape packs all over a bike frame that has no triangle.

The big advantage is of course, the price. If you are quick enough to get some.

 

[friendly1uk]

RC chargers tend to be for 6s so if your using 4s sticks to make up a 12s pack, then you would need 3 chargers not two.

 

[wesnewell]

Currently i'm bulking charging to 100V w/ dual meanwells and balancing via 6x "4S" JST connectors and a few battery medics. How did you build the harness that converts 3x 4S taps into 2x 6S? It's fairly straightforward but what setup has worked for you.

I wanted to be able to just unplug and replace packs easily, so I took 6 4s 2x parallel balance cables and cut the ends off them and then wired them to 6s pigtails. Color coded the 4s connectors black, blue and red (low, middle, high) so I could remember what pack plugged where later, and color coded the 6s plugs black and red so not to screw up plugging into charger. Wired like this.

 

[dogman dan]

4s would work very well with my 8s chargers. I was definitely thinking of getting some 4s, and some 2s to be able to use 4s+2s for my mower.

One thing about 4s, 16s is a bit of an awkward voltage. But 12s +2s makes a nice 14s pack for stock controllers.

What I'd really like is 7s. The mower would like that too, and then pairs would make 14s. I was also looking into 4s + 3s. But stock is low on nearly everything in 5 ah size at the moment. I thought I could still grab some 6s turnigy, but got sharked by somebody buying 27 of them.

 

[EdwardNY]

Dogman, so I could basically buy a 2s pack and join it with my 6s pack for an 8s pack? This would allow me to buy 4s packs and join them for 8s packs? What would you say is the best way to join a 6s and a 2s pack?

Is it worth doing this or will it be a connection nightmare and just worth buying the 6s packs?

 

[dogman dan]

All you would need to do to make 6s from 4s+2s, is some 6s jst plugs. That is, 7 pin plugs. The last + balance wire on pack one would be connected to the same pin as the first - balance wire on pack 2. It could be done permanent, or with an adapter pigtail. The series connection on the big wires is easy of course.

I've been looking at that, since my 4, 6s packs on order are out of stock. Thinking about 4s+3s But even in China, stock is low this spring. I'm such a dumbshit, waiting till spring to buy. Now I'm stuck waiting for HK to refund or credit me to reorder from China.

 

[EdwardNY]

The 6s packs were in stock for the longest time this winter. I bought some knowing that it would be out of stock when the weather warms up. Then i decided to buy even more packs when i realized 18s5p was not enough.

Dogman did you buy any when they came in stock last week? Seems like they were delayed but are getting them packed now.

 

[dogman dan]

Looks like some stock must have arrived, Suddenly yesterday they say they will ship. In stock when I ordered, but then out by the time they went to pack my order.

I bet it was you got in just ahead of me. :lol: I had no money this winter.

 

[Holocene]

What I'd really like is 7s. The mower would like that too, and then pairs would make 14s.

Hey, dogman

You're out of luck for the moment. The HobbyKing USA warehouse shows zero stock right now on these 7S Zippy Compact batts (list price $54.45 or $50.56 after the 'wait-a-while' discount):

ZIPPY Compact 4000mAh 7S 25C Lipo Pack (USA Warehouse)

The International warehouse lists these 4000 mAh for $51.98, or the 5800 mAh version for $78.44 but shipping gets expensive.
--
Cheers,
Holocene

 

[friendly1uk]

About stock levels..
Hobby King seem to ration the stock that comes in to there uk warehouse. Not telling everyone that is waiting, to allow some stock to appear on there site a bit longer. I think this as I asked to be notified when stock come in, but kept watching. One day the stock appeared, and it took me ages to get through checkout as the site was going down every 30 seconds for about 4 hours. A week or so later the automated mail arrived to tell me they had just got the stock in. By which time I had the batteries in my hand. You might aswell forget the automatic notification system. It just put me in a que that anyone could push in to.

 

[dogman dan]

Happily, the same day I convinced HK CS to cancel my order, the checker robot tells me my order shipped.

Hmm, where did they get them if out of stock? Hope they weren't sent back by somebody. I'll be looking them over very closely as always anyway.

The other day, I tore apart an old pack with a bad cell in it, and made up a 1s 3p pack. So I can run my mower on 7s when the grass gets thick midsummer.

Now that I will have some new 12s 2p, I will also have some new 2s packs to make a nice 14s pack for the bike. I'll have 14s 10 ah that is new, and for long rides, 3 year old 14s 25 ah, that delivers only about 12 ah now. Hopefully I'll get some more money soon, and get 10 ah more of 12s, in one form or another.

Once my lipo got really old, so much for good energy density.

 

[EdwardNY]

Dogman, I noticed the same thing as you, after I contacted support about the order status my batteries were the boxed. I to worry if they were returns but with their very difficult return policy on lipos I doubt they would be returns.

 

[EdwardNY]

I wonder if the soft packs have higher capacity than then hard packs?

It seems the hard packs have smaller cells, which if you look at the dimensions on hobby king this seems to hold true. I also heard the soft packs cells are more like 5300MAH cells.

This may explain why they cost more money.

 

[dogman dan]

It varies. I have bought some turnigy 5000 mha packs, that when disassembled proved to have markings on them saying the capacity had tested as high as 5300 mha. Mostly though, you see more like 5150 mha or so.

Zippy's I have taken apart tend to have closer to exactly 5000 mha markings.

This only represents one tiny sample, taken almost 3 years ago now.