500W ebike kit for this hill?

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pkcheng55

100 µW
Joined
Aug 17, 2009
Messages
8
Hi all,

I'm new to ebike and I would like to purchase one to help me to pedal thru the slope to my home since i'm not allowed to get a scooter :cry: . My total commute is about 2.5 miles but there is about 1.5mile with a "sorta" steep slope (see the link in below). I would help to pedal a little on the slope. What kind of hub and battery kit would you guys recommended? Cost is a concern and I would prefer to have a front hub kit for easy installation since this is my first ebike.

I saw ebay has a 500w hub kit with 36v SLA battery which seems like to be a good deal since I may want to get my feet wet first. However, I also saw a kit from hightekbikes.com for 750w hub with LifePO4 36v 10ah battery which looks good to me too.It seems like both Hubs are made by Wilderness Energy. Is anyone has an experience with the one on ebay or hightekbikes.com? Is there any difference between 500w and 750w if I use the same battery pack(let say 36v 10ah)?

Anyways, any advice would welcome. Thank you in advance!

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&sou...=30YDkJ1Ty2yoHz6kjIDYvg&cbp=11,250.69,,0,8.61
 
Is the steep part, Sneath Ln ? I didn't continue on very far but how steep do you think it is? I'm not an expert on hill grades but here on the forum we are finding out a lot about the durabilities of different motors.

From what I saw, sneath ln doesn't look very steep. And is 2.5 miles about the most you would be traveling?

from what I understand, crystalyte's motors are the most durable motors on the market. If I'm wrong, let me know guys.

Here are the motors you have to choose from

crystalyte
bafang
nine continent
bmc
aotema
wilderness energy
golden motor
ezee
currie (non-hub)
cyclone (non-hub)

Only ones that I wouldn't recommend are the BMC, golden motor, and Aotema because people on here have had bad experiences with them, burning them up and stuff. Maybe the jury still out on Aotema, might do some research on that one. And if you're distance is only 10 miles or less, you can get some cheap SLA batteries or maybe some cheap lithium polymer from ebay since the lithium polymer on ebay is almost the same price as SLA's now.
 
Doable. With a nice running start it should plow through that. 2-3 Fat packs. Any brushless motor should do. I would probably do a geared motor. This will increase range high torque and low wh consumption . It will climb like a pack mule. Bafang motor should do nicely and shouldnt peanut butter the gears at 36v 15-20A.
 
nutsandvolts said:
Your total commute is 2.5 miles ... I guarantee that once you start riding you'll want to go a lot farther, so I think you might consider the overall terrain and conditions in the surrounding areas as what your needs for motor and batteries might be. It doesn't look terribly steep on this stretch, many motors can do this, but cheap batteries not recommended. And if you have hilly terrain, I'd go straight to 48V or you'll immediately be disappointed.
Click to expand...

The total 1 way commute should be 4.5miles but 2 out of 4.5 miles are totally flat so I have no problem to pedal. I only have problem with the last 2.5miles with slope. I roughly calculate the slope grade (grade = vertical_climb / horizontal_distance, is that correct?), the steepest area I believed is 8.89% (as shown in the google map link) for 0.7mile and the overall 2.5miles slope grade is 5.2%. For what I heard is that the brushless motor is alot more quiet and durable than the brush motor. Since I don't want to be the eye catcher, I would prefer the brushless one.

Back to my question, will one of the motor and battery (or similar setup) will fit my need or I should get a 48v (higher price) or just go to the brush motor as the other guy recommend? BTW, is Aotema same as wilderness energy or they are different company?
 
if all you have is 5 miles then I'd get either a nine continent 2806 or a crystalyte 406 and buy about $150 worth of cheap lithium polymer packs on ebay. Not sure how much that will be total but probably around $700. I got a brushless hub motor, it doesn't make any noise at all.
 
Wilderness Energy supplies Aotema motors. Wattage depends on the controller used with it, but as far as I can tell, WE and High Tech both use the same one, or at least very very similar controllers. The difference in price is the type of battery supplied with the kit. Because the customer service will be outstanding, I would buy at least the motor from Terry at high tech. The motor will easily climb a 7% hill at 15 mph with some help pedaling. That is with 36v. The controller in the WE/ aotema kits can go 48v, but a few have had early burnout at that voltage using lifepo4. 10% will go fine too, but not at the same speed. But you will, with some pedaling in a lower gear, be easily able to climb a couple miles of 10%.

As stated before, just about any motor will get up that hill, that has 400-500 watts.

As for batteries, a 4 mile ride, assuming you can charge when you get there, can be done at full speed by ol fashioned sla batteries, such as come with the WE kits. But you won't catch us recomending them. The sla's are fussy, and if over discharged much, can wear out in a month. Since you do have a substantial hill, something more reliable is needed. The most reliable pack of all, I think, is nicads from ebikes. ca. Another stellar vendor, a 48v nicad pack would get you there and back easily, using the 48v motor of your choice. If you spend a bit more, lifepo4 is avaliable from many sources, but one of the better ways to do it would be to buy from either ebikes.ca or high tech, and just get the whole kit from the one vendor. Your location, of course, makes High Tech a great choice.

But, if you are really that tight for money, get a motor kit from high tech, and get the sla batteries from a wheelchair and scooter battery place in town. Terry's price on an aotema kit is competitive with any Ebay vendor that doesn't true the wheels or give any customer service.

If you are realllly tight for money, there are places to get motors , and you'll have to learn to lace a wheel. Or ask Terry about used stuff, he might have a bargain around.

There is a looong review in the review section on my aotema motor from high tech.
 
A few examples of good options,

Motor kit from high tech, $329. Plus three sla batteries and charger $200 = $529 36v
With nicads from ebikes. ca and charger, 36v $285 = $614
48v nicads $375 = $724
With 10 ah 36v lifepo4 from high tech $710


Motor kits from ebikes ca are a good deal, like the 9 continents, but cost more because you get a cycleanalyst. I don't think you need a CA for short rides like you talk about. But, don't be shocked when you find you want to ride 20 miles once you have the ebike :roll: The ev grin will get going :D and next thing you know you're shopping for 20 ah batteries.

The two higher priced options are very close to equal. 36v lifepo4 will have a slightly higher voltage, with less voltage sag than nicad. The 48v nicad will be faster at first, but later will slow to speeds similar to 36v lifepo4. Both will go similar distance. But buying from two vendors will increase the shipping cost, so the kit from HTB may be the best option. That one you could pick up right?
 
I think this is the url address to hightek ? http://www.hightekbikes.com/kits.html

Yeah that's a good option. You didn't say how fast you want to go. The Aotema will probably go 25 mph. If you want to go really fast, it'll cost more. The crystalyte 5303 goes about 36 mph on 48v.
 
If you can make it up to the city, I can meet you there and you can try a few bikes on some hills. I believe part of Snyder is quite steep, I checked it for another customer. Dogman has done extensive tests with our motor as well as others and reports in the Review section. Several people have also commented in a hill climbing thread under General ebikes. All of the motors mentiond will get you up a moderate hill when run at 36V 20A. We are a distributor and dealer for Aotema motors. My understanding is that WE also imports them. The new models do not burn up...period. We have just extended our warranty to two years because they are super reliable. Some older brushed models may have crapped out under extreme condidtions. We never have, and never will sell brushed motors. Of course I'm biased, but I believe this new sensorless motor is one of the best values available. You can email me for more info on our products.
 
Yeah, I've been trying all summer to melt my aotema, and haven't even seen symptoms of overheating. It does get hot, but seems to hit a point where it doesn't get hotter than 170F, which is just about the upper limit for brushed motors. With no brushes to melt, it can take more than that. The only time I've seen it get hot fast was on a climb of 5 miles of 10% For your short ride, motor heating will not be a major problem even on the hottest days.

To get up 8% grades with no pedaling would take a motor that will cost a bit more, and a coresponding more expensive battery. Having ridden a small gearmotor and the aotema at 36v, I'd say the aotema climbs better. A gearmotor with the same wattage would climb better than the aotema, but if I were you, I'd spend my money with Terry, since you have a great local dealer. He's got a very interesting hill bike, but $$$$. Some light pedaling in a lower gear, and the Aotema will climb just fine. When I go on cross country rides for long distance, I climb badass hills at 12 mph with half throttle on the aotema for hours. I know that sounds slow, but pedaling only, I'd be climbing those hills at 4 mph.
 
Ok, I'm pretty much sold to this kit from hightekbikes. However, I got a newbie question. How does this kit works in rain. Do I need to put the controller in the rear rack bag together with the battery for water proof? Is that easy to install? If I park the bike, could I took out the bag with the battery and controller easily?
 
pkcheng55 said:
Ok, I'm pretty much sold to this kit from hightekbikes. However, I got a newbie question. How does this kit works in rain. Do I need to put the controller in the rear rack bag together with the battery for water proof? Is that easy to install? If I park the bike, could I took out the bag with the battery and controller easily?
Click to expand...

EDIT: scratch that. it looks like Hitechbikes kit is much easier to plug unplug the controller. On my censored kit it would be a serious pain. :mrgreen:

I can't speak to the waterproofing(yet), but I can tell you that there are quite a bit of wires going to the controller. 3 phase(power) wires, 3 hall censor wires, 3 throttle wires, potentially 6 pin for the CA. After putting it all together I looked at it and said " no way I can remove this controller daily without breaking something." So I just pull the battery to charge, which is only 2 wires. Eventually I got tired of that and just roll the bike into our house to charge.
 
Where I live, in the SW desert, putting the controller in a bag like that would toast it. It just depends on your climate. The aotema kit is pretty easy to waterproof, with a few less connectors. I carry a baggie or two around with me in case I get caught in a summer downpour, and plan to just wrap up the controller and battery if it starts to pour cats and dogs. Keeping the throttle dry is good too. Some have made some pretty nifty battery and controller boxes that allowed ventilation to the controller heatsinks but still had a hood over the controller to keep it dryer.

There are long threads about waterproofing in the archives. But in general, a little bit of silicone, or taping up plug connectors is enough for light rain. Put a drip loop where the wire comes out the hub, so rain running down the fork is not channeled into the hub, but drips off first instead. The aotema kits controller box is actually fairly well sealed, but some sealant like silcone, or rain gutter caulk can improve it. Some kind of rear fender helps a lot with keeping water off the electronics when mounted on a rear rack. See the highteck bikes kit review thread, or Dogman bikes threads in pics to see how I solve some of the mounting issues.
 
It rained a bit last night, and we were nearly doing backflips with joy. I don't think it should take a huge amount of ventilation to cool a controller in the wet climates. Our problem here is related to the fact that air does not cool, it's the water molecules in the air that gather the heat and transfer it. So here, we don't have any molecules in the air to cool anything. In a damper climate, just a small flow of air over the controller should be plenty.
 
Well yeah, dogman! Too bad 95 degrees plus 95% humidity doesn't cool people very well! :evil:
otherDoc
 
That's no lie. I once allmost passed out once at the sea world in San Antonio. It was 90 -90 that day. It felt waaaay hotter than a 100 day back home. My ponytail got a full 4 inches shorter. Too bad I can't make a hub motor sweat, but I could mist it. That's what we used to do to cure vapor lock on old WV's. Stop and get a windex bottle out, and squirt the fan intake till the motor cooled off some.
 
Thank you all for your comments. I just pickup a hub and battery kit from Terry (HTB) last weekend and did the installation on Sun. Everything look good to me but I didn’t make much test yet since the rack doesn’t fit and I have to carry the battery in my backpack.

Indeed, my area is on the cool side (average 65-80F) even in summer. However, the moisture from the fog(summer)/rain(winter) and thieve problem are the concerns for me. Most likely, I will put the control board into the rear rack bag but I have to disconnect the throttle, brake and motor wire every single time if I park my bike. A front mount bag like lcyn maybe a good idea too but I have to extend the power wire from controller to motor. BTW, did you guys always take off the control board when you park your bike in public place (eg. 9 hrs or more)?
 
I just have a set up that allows me to take the battery with me and lock the frame/wheels up with a cable/lock. I suppose someone could pull the controller off, but I think that would certainly look suspicious to anyone standing nearby. You can see my set-up and a review of the hightekbikes kit here:

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=9771
 
pkcheng55, I think you got two options for the controller. Either hide it really well or take it with you if you are planning on being away from the bike for longer than an hour. If your controller is small enough or thin enough, you could hide it underneath your rear rack. If the distance between that rack and tire allows a controller to fit, that'd be the best option I think if you can make that work. Then no one can really see it. Actually a 3rd option that I've heard is people screwing their controller to the bike frame and then using some kind of cement to put over the bolts to prevent people from unscrewing it. I didn't explain that very well. HOpefully someone knows what I'm talking about. There's a special epoxy or something to put over the bolts.

I'm a fan of these new lithium polymer batteries so if you had those then maybe you could wire everything up so that you only have two or three things to disconnect and take both with you.
 
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