80kv 7000w Sensored rc motor supplier

[bionicdan]

Hey do you think these are any good. I always wanted to do rc motors but didnt want to mess with setting up sensors. This guy is knocking them out with evs in mind and custom options like winds and sprockets on request.

It says internal hall sensor pcbs. Didnt people here work out its too noisey inside for that? What controller would be best for a bike I wonder.

http://alienpowersystem.com/shop/80mm/c80110-sensored-outrunner-brushless-motor-80kv-6000w-2/

Seems cheap
http://alienpowersystem.com/shop/63mm/6374-sensored-outrunner-brushless-motor-130kv-3000w/

 

[neptronix]

Ah yes, these look like the usual turnigy motors that other member have built bikes with before. The power figures sound highly exaggerated and are probably 'peak' output numbers, not continuous.

This fellow was selling a 240, or was it 420? amp controller that died at something like 50A continuous when liveforphysics tested it.

So don't be too hopeful..

http://alienpowersystem.com/shop/80mm/c80110-sensored-outrunner-brushless-motor-80kv-6000w-2/

This would be nicer.. "6000W" probably means 2000W continuous or so in reality. But the hall sensors make it useable with the usual controllers we have

 

[neptronix]

aussiejester on the endless sphere facebook page has told me that he thinks that the larger motor i mentioned can do around 4000w continuous..

So i'll just eat my words now.. 2000w was just a guess

 

[ARod1993]

This is basically the same thing as the Turnigy C80100 "melon" that you used to be able to get on Hobbyking for something like $100 (about 59 GBP) three or four years ago. It's a pretty awesome motor (although 109 GBP strikes me as slightly pricey), and is probably capable of 7-8kW peak (assuming a 48-72 volt system) and something on the order of half that continuous. These motors used to be fairly common around MITERS (the MIT student-run machine shop), and were typically used in conjunction with 12s A123 packs and 50/120A 48V Kelly controllers. I don't think any of the student vehicles that got built there (mostly stand-up scooters and the occasional go-kart or tricycle, also not my images) have burned out the motor due to running too much power through it, so it's definitely capable of 5kW peak, 2kW continuous.

I'm currently in the planning stages of a moped build using one of these much closer to its rated max power (24S LiFePO4 with a controller good for at least 130A peak, 50 or 60 continuous) with the goal of pushing it to about 8-9kW peak and 3-4 continuous, and I'll definitely report back on how it goes. Also, if you don't want to spend time and money screwing around (or having the Alien Power guy screw around) with internal sensors then you have a couple of options. You could take a look at using it in conjunction with a Lebowski controller, or any other controller that runs sensorless FOC at high e-rpm; an 80kV melon at 72V will top out somewhere around 40-45K e-rpm and not all (or even many) of the sensorless controllers I know of on here can hit that kind of frequency without overrunning the commutation limit and damaging the motor and controller. Your other option is to pick up the external Hall sensor adapters from Equals Zero Designs (which is owned and operated by Charles Guan, who also writes the blog in the first link); they have ones specially made for Alien Power Systems motors that are fairly easy to use. That option will let you run the melon with a standard Kelly controller (although if you want to be able to max out the motor on a 72V build you're going to need the High Speed option).

 

[neptronix]

Awesome links, fantastic info! thank you!

 

[ARod1993]

Awesome links, fantastic info! thank you!

You're welcome, no problem!

Also, depending on how you set up the ebike you might also want to use an internal gear hub on your build to maintain a straight chainline and avoid accidentally damaging the chain, the cassette, or the derailleur if you shift under melon power. I can probably recommend the Shimano Nexus 8-speed internal gear hub; it's a bit pricey ($150-200 depending on where you're getting it from), but the electric tricycle I linked to above uses a melon mated to an 8-speed Nexus mated to a custom spur gear differential and as far as I'm aware it hasn't suffered any drivetrain flameouts from damage to the hub.

 

[neptronix]

I've heard of people chewing up those internal hubs like those were disposable while running high power RC drives.

I think that a great solution would be to use 3-5 BMX cogs on a strong cassette wheel. You would just need to modify the derailleur to accept a thicker chain. Some derailleurs ( especially older ones ) are receptive to this modification, i'm sure.

You can get a 12T-24T range of single speed BMX cogs... kinda limited shifting range, but still useable.

 

[riba2233]

Do you think that alien guy could do 35 kv version of 80100 outrunner? It states custom kv...

 

[gwhy!1]

you guys have always got to remember that the lower the kv the less current it can take ( less output power ), it will not handle nowhere near 7kw with a winding of 35kv, it will be more like 2kw. And I would say that even 80kv would be more like 4-5kw not 7kw.

 

[neptronix]

Yes, but you would just up the voltage to compensate, to get back the original power level.

35kv is pretty extreme. Good for situations where you can do a limited reduction; but you have to sacrifice power because you cannot hit the RPM where the motor is really producing it.

 

[riba2233]

Well, I only need 2 kw continuous, and 3 kw peak.

I could use 60 kv, but then I would have heavier gearing, bigger rear sprocket. But if that gives me better result in the end, why not

 

[gwhy!1]

Yes, but you would just up the voltage to compensate, to get back the original power level.

35kv is pretty extreme. Good for situations where you can do a limited reduction; but you have to sacrifice power because you cannot hit the RPM where the motor is really producing it.

the first statement is not strictly true and can be very misleading, also If you up the voltage this make the motor run faster so more reduction is needed . There will always be trade offs .

Well, I only need 2 kw continuous, and 3 kw peak.

I could use 60 kv, but then I would have heavier gearing, bigger rear sprocket. But if that gives me better result in the end, why not

If you can get away with 60kv then yes I think 2-3kw will be doable.

 

[neptronix]

Yes, but you would just up the voltage to compensate, to get back the original power level.

35kv is pretty extreme. Good for situations where you can do a limited reduction; but you have to sacrifice power because you cannot hit the RPM where the motor is really producing it.

the first statement is not strictly true and can be very misleading, also If you up the voltage this make the motor run faster so more reduction is needed . There will always be trade offs.

Of course you need more reduction. But these motors are designed to produce X amount of power at X RPM.
So if you add more voltage and more reduction, you will get that ~7kW figure just fine even with a stupidly-low kV RC motor.

I'm just saying that a low kV motor does not inherently output less power in any way.

But a 35kV motor is rather silly; the motor essentially becomes more like a hub motor at that point - lower power per pound. I mean, you're going to hit 3,500rpm loaded on 100v, and produce around half the power you are able to produce if it were 70kV and spinning up to 7,000rpm. ( it gets more complicated when you start talking about stator losses x rpm, but let's not god there, lol )

A typical RC motor is light enough to make up for throwing away half of the power though, so i understand the appeal of having a 5 pound motor that outputs 2,000w continuous instead of ~4000w continuous. The alternative would be to buy an 18lb hub motor ( Crystalyte HS40xx or 'the crown' ), so you do have a big advantage there

 

[gwhy!1]

You are right that a lower kv do not necessarily produce less power as most motors will suck as much current as you can throw at it, but for the same amount of power as a higher kv (in the same size motor) it will get so much hotter if we are talking continuous power. The beauty of these small rc motors and why they can produce what they do is they spin very fast because of very few windings and if you are putting more winding on to slow the motor down then this increases winding resistance you can not use thicker winding wire as there physically is not the space inside the motor so using a thinner wire generates more heat. The way to over come this is to have a physically bigger motor and/or have more poles.

 

[riba2233]

Long story short, if I want 1700 rpm motor at 48 V, I have to look away from this one Big block alternative seems like a better choice, even though it's 3 kg heavier.

 

[bionicdan]

Cheers for the replies/debate. I was out for days with the mrs flying around on the bikes ha ha.

I was thinking of doing a left drive side set up with the motor near the bottom bracket and use a freewheel crank with the pawls taken out so its just a jack shaft reduction stage.

I wasnt bothered about the specs but more the fact they have halls already installed inside. At 48v 2kw does me just fine but my bike is probably 40kg and I would love a smaller setup sometimes (for example in the woods flicking through trees).

See how bored I get this summer

 

[Bazaki]

Hmm, I don't get it. I have a C80-100 motor 45kv, because I need low rpm, like 2000-3000 rpm.

The windings are very very thick, I thought it could handle more amps now also due to the thinker windings.

 

[John in CR]

Hmm, I don't get it. I have a C80-100 motor 45kv, because I need low rpm, like 2000-3000 rpm.

The windings are very very thick, I thought it could handle more amps now also due to the thinker windings.

The lower the Kv of an otherwise identical motor, the less copper there is on each turn, and less copper means lower current handling.

 

[Hummina Shadeeba]

Anyone seen a 150kv 50mm motor? Seems the only way to get it is to rewind.

http://m.aliexpress.com/item/549134749.html

Why would this say only 10-12s. I imagine I could run it on 8 or 6 couldn't i?

 

[Dauntless]

KV150 is a pretty low target for 50mm. Or even 63mm, but it's doable.

http://hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__18184__Turnigy_Aerodrive_SK3_6374_149kv_Brushless_Outrunner_Motor.html

IS there a supplier of sensored RC motors other than Alien?

 

[ARod1993]

KV150 is a pretty low target for 50mm. Or even 63mm, but it's doable.

http://hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__18184__Turnigy_Aerodrive_SK3_6374_149kv_Brushless_Outrunner_Motor.html

IS there a supplier of sensored RC motors other than Alien?

I don't think there is (at least, not with internally installed sensors); if you want motors in that range but don't want to pay Alien prices plus shipping, then you can get them off Hobbyking and use Equals Zero Designs' external Hall mounts.

 

[Dauntless]

Since I posted that I did find these guys:

http://www.teamnovak.com/

A bit light on info, no serious idea how powerful any of these are, but they are offering small sensored brushless motors for RC. Don't know if any are even big enough for a bike. These are for the cars/trucks.

There's been a few people here using Tacons, turns out they make them also.

[youtube]SQnhQ5HLR1M[/youtube]

 

[bionicdan]

Since I posted that I did find these guys:

http://www.teamnovak.com/

A bit light on info, no serious idea how powerful any of these are, but they are offering small sensored brushless motors for RC. Don't know if any are even big enough for a bike. These are for the cars/trucks.

There's been a few people here using Tacons, turns out they make them also.

[youtube]SQnhQ5HLR1M[/youtube]

I think you might need 5 gearboxes to bring down those 1000-2000kv motors wouldnt you? Id like to do a lightweight build but not sure il pick the right motor/esc etc.

I like the look of these 30kv motors
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/251642599936?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

or these 105kv.
https://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__29067__Turnigy_9014_105kv_Brushless_Multi_Rotor_Motor.html

Taken from this list of edit*multi rotor motors. (prob very low torque?)
https://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__523__517__Electric_Motors-Specialised_Motors.html

Im looking for 19mph max, single stage reduction and good efficiency but have doubts if outrunners will do all these things combined. My mac motor and 500w conhis both get around 2-3 miles per ah on steady energetic rides.

 

[Dauntless]

I can't imagine a gimbal motor holding up. Even if you did get one that was big enough. They aren't even designed to keep running.

Tacon has lower KV motors, just as Hobby King has high and low. If you search the board there's a number of builds with them.

 

[bionicdan]

I can't imagine a gimbal motor holding up. Even if you did get one that was big enough. They aren't even designed to keep running.

Tacon has lower KV motors, just as Hobby King has high and low. If you search the board there's a number of builds with them.

The only one I could see with listed specs was 1000kv ish. Maybe I missed them, Im half asleep today.

Yeah I doubt they would hold up but Id love to try a pair or something. 500grams and a 1000w would be great. I dont like the can shape of the other builds so much now Iv thought about my goals. I would like one or two pancake mini motors on the left side of the back wheel so it doesnt protrude too much. Just an idea in my head. I also have two bikes in mind so one can have 1-3kw and one is just a low power range monster for the mrs who struggles with the weight of the pink bike I lent her.

I did the same with a 300w my1016 motor and really liked the way it smoothly added the power but it stuck out too far.