A simple front Suspension idea

Joined
Feb 19, 2008
Messages
418
Location
Peshawar, Pakistan
Dear All

Your precious comments on the base of technical point of view will highly be appreciated. It just came to my mind while i was half a sleep and woke up and draw it in Pain. It seemes simple but efficient for off road conditions. it could also modified for tuning for stiff or lose for different weight conditions. Before going to try i thought may be i could get some feedback from tallented people on this website.

Sincerely
Naeem
 
Some early mtbs were setup something like that. There was even a guy who built motorcycle front ends like that for off-road bikes.
 
Hi Naeem,

Do a search on "Girder forks". It was one of the earliest forms of front suspension for motorbikes.

Amp Research revived the idea for mountain bikes in the 90's.

Here's a modern version: http://www.german-a.de/kilo.html
 
I've got a really good photo someplace of a works HRC bike that looks like this one here..

honda_jpg.jpg
 
Compare your design to the moderately successful AMP Research fork
http://www.bikepro.com/products/forks/amp_index.html
amp_side_det_15.jpg

and Lawwill Leader fork
http://www.bikepro.com/products/forks/lawill_index.html
lawleader_full_7.jpg

and Girvin/Proflex fork
http://www.timpilling.u-net.com/proflex.htm
girvin.jpg

and 846 fork
http://picasaweb.google.com/firstflightbikes/ForksOther#
P7260033.JPG


Of the four examples I've posted here, yours most closely resembles the Girvin fork. I can't figure out what the third linkage on top of yours is for, though.

Chalo
 
I think this is a good way to go for a DIY system, Naeem.

Unless I've misread your drawing, you'll need to sort out what moves around the steering axis and what doesn't, though :wink:
 
Chalo said:
I can't figure out what the third linkage on top of yours is for, though.

Chalo


If I read that correct, his suspension is ridgid to the frame, and that top part you mentioned is steering linkage.

I Think I've seen a Hodaka with something similar, though I can't find a picture right now. I know BMW was using long, unequil leingth A Arm suspensions on a couple of bikes.

I've riden one of those AMP bikes. Its buttery smooth, but heavy. They also didn't have much travel.
 
EDIT (to add how it looks like it works to me): There are two headtubes, and two steerer tubes. The linkage bars are attached at pivot points to the headtubes, presumably just inside the bearing races so they dont' interfere with turning. The steerer tubes would be connected just like remote steering on many recumbents (including my CrazyBike2), which is what that third linkage on top is for. Turning the handlebars on the rear steerer tube pushes against the linkage which pushes against the front steerer tube's pivot point which turns the front wheel.

ORIGINAL:
The only potentially big issue I see with it is that all of the torsional loads of frame twisting are now no longer carried by the strong headtube-to-top&downtube welds, but instead are carried by the eight joints pinning the four linkage bars between the two headtubes. That's a lot of force to carry at such a tiny point.

If the points are beefed up then you need thick and/or strong metal for those linkage bars, so they themselves can't twist.

Otherwise you risk the front fork swaying side to side (not in steering) as you ride over a varying-angle surface, or pulling to the left in a righthand turn, and vice-versa.


It does look like a nice idea, but you may need to do it with dual-tubes on either side of the actual pivot as some of the photos show, rather than the much simpler method you have in the drawing (which I like, but am not sure it will hold up).



Another idea you could try that is pretty simple is to actually put the spring inside the headtube itself. I found this idea on the WISIL site originally, and am going to implement a version of it on CrazyBike2 at some point, to lighten the bike by eliminating the very heavy twin-shock front fork, using only a standard aero-tube ten-speed style fork plus the minimal spring/buffer/bearing/etc parts. Since it's a road bike, it doesn't *really* need the super-duper mountain bike suspension. :)

http://www.wisil.recumbents.com/wisil/headshock/headshock.htm
 
amberwolf said:
Another idea you could try that is pretty simple is to actually put the spring inside the headtube itself. I found this idea on the WISIL site originally, and am going to implement a version of it on CrazyBike2 at some point, to lighten the bike by eliminating the very heavy twin-shock front fork, using only a standard aero-tube ten-speed style fork plus the minimal spring/buffer/bearing/etc parts.
The original Moulton suspension, from the sixties, had the spring in the head-tube:
http://v3.espacenet.com/publication...C=A&FT=D&date=19630326&DB=EPODOC&locale=en_V3
 
amberwolf said:
Another idea you could try that is pretty simple is to actually put the spring inside the headtube itself. I found this idea on the WISIL site originally, and am going to implement a version of it on CrazyBike2 at some point, to lighten the bike by eliminating the very heavy twin-shock front fork, using only a standard aero-tube ten-speed style fork plus the minimal spring/buffer/bearing/etc parts.

Cannondale has a headtube shock. ridgid fork goes up into a shock built into the headtube.
 
I have seen a few of these designs knocked up by DIYers on builds at Freakbikenation actually funny you bring this up now, i am in two minds what to do for a fork for my latest project, orginally planned mountain bike forks butstarting to think a custom fork might be a better option so i can dial in some decent trail to get rid of flop. Interested to see how you go about making this (if you do attempt it) best of luck...


KiM

EDIT:

I remebered i saved a couple of pics from the last build at FBN with the custom made fork might help -->

dsc03191.jpg


dsc03192.jpg


dsc03194.jpg


Best of luck
 
Dear All

It is So kind of you to generously share your precious knowlege about the idea i'm working on about the front suspension. i'm working on clarifying my diagram further, as it is not so much clear. as i complete it i'll share the same with all of you.

Thanks from the bottom of my heart.

Sincerely
Naeem
 
As drawn it looks like it would be workable but the tortional forces would be a bit much... someone posted to double up the tubes... I think perhaps going flatbar might be simpler and more structurally sound (though I am no engineer)...

I also wonder what kind of travel you could get out of that configuration - Certainly more than my little 9FS folding bike, with moderate dampening it could be sweet.

I too have seen that (somthing very similar) and I am fairly certain the design was used on an episode of Monster Garage for a custom but I don't remember which episode. It wasn't identical but it was simliar, if only i could remember which episode I could send it to you... might help with design a bit as theirs was good for 100+ mph and a ride of 650lbs+

-Mike
 
Oh crap i just realised its Naeem from Pakistan! DUDE you freakin ROCK!!! Your bike-->

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IS bloody genius mate, is this fork going on that or are you working on a new bike PLEEEEEASE tell me you have another masterpiece in the works Naeem....powered by two fan motors this time and triple the geardown reductions hehehe Anywayz mate BEST OF LUCK with the fork design look forward to seeing it come together...if you need a shock for it i have have half a dozen of them cheapo jobs that you see on the wallmart type bikes i would happly send one too you free of charge if you can't get your hands on one there? ...

KiM
 
Naeem- You pick out any fork from any place you want, give me a shipping address, and it will show up there for you.

You are the most impressive E-bike builder on this forum, and your work inspires me.

-Luke
 
Damn,

If that's the intended victim... crud, liveforphysics pledges a fork, Aussie offers a shock... damn is that an eBike or a Blender/Food Processor (maybe both)... either way, I have been to Paki and I know it's not always easy (things might be differrent now) to get anything you might want let alone exactly what you want.

Considering your raw materials, that contraption is awesome...

F-it, if Luke's in, I don't know your build schedule but I have associates heading to Paki to visit family / friends on atleast a bi-weekly basis and can send some stuff with them on their voyage (many are avid eBikers, could mayhap lend a hand even)... if you need parts for a build, post here to this thread and someone (or me) will do the best they can to get it to you.

Having been there and knowing lots o people from there and neighboring countries I know bicycles are plentiful there and CHEAP for the most part and while that's good for the frame of an eBike... from what I've seen the components your working with could be upgraded quite a bit (I dont specifically mean your components, just bike parts in Paki to begin with).

1.) Where there is a will, there really is a way
2.) People will do anything for their transport/ebike fix.

-Mike
 
mwkeefer said:
...

Considering your raw materials, that contraption is awesome...
x.

Aint it! There is a thread here on ES with more pics of the reduction if you haven't seen it yet Mike check it out here buddy-->

https://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=3983&p=191092&hilit=pakistan#p191092

Needs to be put in a thread thats 'Stickied' IMHO just so we can easily direct newbies that complain its all too hard hehee..."you think you have it hard, check out this dude!"

Naeem is definitely one of the Master DIYers IMAGINE what the fella could do if he had half the components and a decent equipped workshop available to him most of us take for granted! Keep up the great work
Naeem

OH OH OH Naeeem...theres a competition on THIS forum the prise is a reduction drive for an rc motor i reckon ALOT of people might vote for you if you submitted an entry...I know i would and i have an entry in the comp myself LoL
 
Aussiejester,

on your trike did you roll your own version of a springer fork using john brains plans?

http://bikerodnkustom3.homestead.com/brainfork.html



How well did those work out? any suggestions for improvements? any potential pitfalls? how well do they handle?

rick
 
I certainly did use Mr Brains plans he even made a comment on my youtube video :)

If i was to make them again i would do a couple of things differently...Firstly i would cut all the plates and tubes then trundle off to the chrome platers and have him polish them all to the level they require (this is what was suggested to me by the fella at the chrome platers when i went to see him about getting the forks chromed) Once they are polished i would weld them up BUT this time i would take the time to make a simple jig to keep everything aligned when welding (i tacked them down leaves marks that need to be "smoothed" over) With the polishing done first it works out alot cheaper to get them chromed as the majority of the $$$ for chrome plating is the labour for the prep of the metal ie. polishing, it has to be mirror finish before its chromed very difficult to buff assembled forks...If you simply want to paint them just make a jig to hld them solid while your welding them up, if they move at all they will be all out of whack when on the bike...

I would also go the extra and use rose joint ends (as i did with mine) rather than clamping/pinching the ends as John plans detail. I also added dual disk caliper mounts to the rockers on mine Johns plans don't include this.

Handling...well they are a springer fork buddy they aren't and never were the pinnacle of suspension that said they work very very well absorb ever bump i encounter on the bike paths and roads (i dont go offroad)

If you check the latter pages of my trike worklog you will see several close up pics of the springer i made you can judge for yourself how it turned out, im very pleased with it :)

The plans as they stand are excellent and if you follow them to the letter you will get a very good fork. Best of luck with it :)

Drunkskunk i believe you can get clamp on mounts now i am sure i have seen them somewhere...:-S Theres a nice 'Modern Trrack Board Racer" on Motored bikes that has a set check this shit out-->

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One of my Fav builds on Moteredbikes.com just wish he went with my suggestion for the watercooled 47cc 10hp pocket bike motor hehehe either way its a freakin sexy looking bike and would be nice in electric too, would build one myself in a heart beat if i could get up to that seat hieght from my wheelchair and ride it hahaha...

Best of luck...KiM
 
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