A single or a pair of disk brake(s)?

i2000s

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Oct 8, 2016
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I ride my bike downhill in a high speed every morning. Unfortunately, there are plenty of traffic lights so that I have to stop many times on the downhill road. I am using V-caliper brakes, and am considering to upgrade to Disc Brakes in any form (no experience before). A 500W hub motor is on the 26" front wheel. Should I install a pair of disc brakes on both front and rear wheels, or maybe just the rear/front single wheel? I heard using a single disc brake on the front wheel is dangerous, but the brakes are expensive from my quick search. Any source for reliable while cheap brakes? I may only need them for one year.

Thanks!

Update: just found my forks/frame don't have the tab for easily mounting the disc rotors.
 
Your front wheel handles roughly 60% of your braking, so I'd at least look there. If you get mechanical disc brakes you can still use your existing levers and they work well. Avids TRP and Tektros are pretty good and will be better than your calipers. Bigger rotors are better than the stock 160mms, but they'll cost you more since you'll need adapters plus the rotors themselves.

If you're really on a tight budget, look on ebay, you can probably pick up used ones for a song, but keep in mind that new pads run @ $15-20 a set if the pads are worn out.

This is all assuming your hubs, frame and fork will accept disc brakes......
 
If it's a DD hub, enable regen braking on your controller or get a controller that supports regen braking. With regen braking I've been using the same cheap V-brake pads for 5 years now and they aren't half worn out. I had only one bike with caliper type brakes and they sucked. I had another bike with front and rear 160mm disk brakes and they were just as bad if not worse. Good v brakes on a 26" (22.5") rim provide a 571.5mm disk brake. Disk brakes are all hype imo compared to good v brakes
 
First if you want to try to upgrade your brakes, try some ebike specific pads in the front. I use these on my rear, but I have front disc: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00D6016MM/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1

When it comes to front disc brakes, theres two parts.. the caliper, and the disc..
needless to say, to put disc brakes on, your fork needs a tab to mount the caliper, and your hub needs a place to mount the disc.

Mechanical calipers are the norm. They can use your existing levers, and they're probably what you're looking at. They work well for most things, but high speed, heavy bikes on asphalt are pushing their limits easily.
Hydraulic calipers are less common. They bolt up exactly the same as mechanical calipers, but they also have their own lever with a master cyl. They work exactly the same as your car, or motorcycle brakes. Some work much better than mechanicals, others are just gimmicks and work no better than good mechanical calipers.
Theres also mechanical hydraulics, but I view these as the worst of both worlds.

Discs for bikes are all around the same thickness, so that really doesnt come into play.
The discs diameter though, varies greatly. Not to over simplify but larger is better. I currently run this EBC kit on my bike, and its the only single disc setup that I actually liked: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00NYTSDNA/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1
All the previous ones I tried overheated on multiple stops.. I am taking about 300lbs of bike and body down from 45mph to zero quickly though.. so of course I needed a hydraulic caliper and motorcycle sized discs. Not everyone will need it though, but it sounds like you're in my group with multiple downhill stops.
 
Thanks for all the prompt response. I just double checked, my bike is a Trek 800 Exage Country mountain bike which has iron forks but actually doesn't have the tab for easily mounting the disc rotors on either wheel. I didn't aware of this requirement before, and now I think this is a downside of installing a disc brake in my case. Sorry about my ignorance.

@wesnewell, you mentioned the Regenerative Braking technique which sounds interesting to me. How should I know if my controller supports this feature? I indeed have a DD hub motor, and it's a cheap one bought here on eBay. I have messaged the seller for more information about the controller, but wish if anyone can shadow a light on it, if regen braking is helpful for using my V-brakes. The EBS brake definitely look promising.

I am less than 200lbs, but indeed have to brake and stop multiple times in a long 3~4% grade downhill road sth like in every the other blocks.

Thanks for your advice!
 
You can get quite a lot of power out of V-Brakes. Another option if you want just a bit more feel/modulation for bikes without disc mounts are Magura hydro rim brakes. I raced downhill bikes in the 1990s and these were all the rage. They are still popular for trials bikes. For v-brakes make sure to use stiff brake arms, good pads, and if you still feel a bit flexy use a brake booster (horse-shoe shaped thing that helps reduce flex). Keep the cables in good shape and levers adjusted well and you should have all the braking power you need. You may need to occasionally deglaze your rims (basically sand them and the pads so both are smooth and free of brake pad material and dirt).

Something like this may help:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Curve-Bicycle-Brake-Booster-Mountain-Bike-Cycling-MTB-Rim-/381810732622?hash=item58e5b16e4e:g:fZMAAOSwPCVX~R9k
 
12000s, Most modern controllers support some form of either regen braking or electronic braking. Your controller may support both , but with neither enabled. I had to wire it up inside the controller on several controller that supported it but wasn't wired for it. Without knowledge of your controller, it may be easier to just get a new controller that has the functions enabled. They can be had for $20-$30.
 
All good stuffs above. I should ask you guys before ordering my kit! I guess the controller price is from Alibaba or Aliexpress, like this one? Most regen controllers require a display, so that cost will be doubled? Any recommendation of reliable but cheap controllers? I will consider all suggestions above. Thanks!
 
Since you're not replacing the brakes... try the pads I posted above.
I was wearing through normal brakes like crazy.. one set every 2 weeks. Then I tried the ebike pads. They worked better AND they last much much longer... in fact, I havent worn out the first set yet! :lol:
This is what I bought: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00D6016MM/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1
 
MrDude_1 said:
Since you're not replacing the brakes... try the pads I posted above.
I was wearing through normal brakes like crazy.. one set every 2 weeks. Then I tried the ebike pads. They worked better AND they last much much longer... in fact, I havent worn out the first set yet! :lol:
This is what I bought: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00D6016MM/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1
That sounds you have a hush situation for braking! Thanks for the info.

I just got a response from the original seller of my ebike kit. The controller I have doesn't support regen braking or display function. If a ebike braking pad plus a booster can act as a regen braking mechanism plus a normal braking pad in terms of braking, maybe I shouldn't bother to replace the controller for now. Not sure if this is the best plan but accepatable to me.
 
i2000s said:
I just got a response from the original seller of my ebike kit. The controller I have doesn't support regen braking
And if you ask the seller of my original kit, they'll tell you the same thing, when it fact it did. It just needed to be enabled. That took soldering one jumper on the board. Of course it took a little effort on my part to find this out. They may use the same controller for many kits, and they are wired for the specs the buyer ask. That doesn't mean those are the only functions they are capable of. As it turned out, the cheap one I got had support for regen, electronic braking, cruise control, 3 speed switching, speed limiting, reverse, and probably others that I don't remember now. This was 5+ years ago. Just depends if you want to take the time to open it up and have a look at all the unused solder points inside on the board.
 
You don't need to have a disc brake on the rear, riding downhill especially because very little braking power is used on the rear wheel then.

When we set both disc brakes, it is more for equal feeling in both hands than for better braking on the rear. On the front it does make a big difference if you ride fast all weather on various terrain, because a disc brake modulation doesn't vary much in different situations and that is making for a shorter braking distance.

You can find a used fork that has IS brake mount for cheap in the winter. That should be you first move if you want to improve your braking. Then, I find much better to buy a good front brake than 2 cheap ones.
 
It doesn't cost much to change the forks to disk brake ones - plenty on Ebay, where you can also find a suitable hydraulic disc brake, which will transform your braking. Don't get a cable disc brake. A hydraulic one hardly costs any more and will be substantially better.
 
Regen worth looking into, but I assume your motor is in the rear? So do the regen, but also do something to improve front wheel braking to get you stopping.

I find cheapo mechanical disc better than rim, but not that it stops better. It just stops good for longer between adjustments, and adjusting the discs is waaaay quicker and easier. That matters when you run a lot, and need to work on the bike weekly. Making that brake adjustment monthly instead of weekly helps.

So do invest eventually in a fork, or a bike with disc, or whatever. Right now,, improve your pads immediately.

If you do regen,, consider using a pushbutton to engage it. So you can have regen, or just regular braking as you wish. It's the only way to fly with regen, you don't always want regen. Sometimes you just want a light touch of brakes, or a short blast of regen followed by normal brakes.
 
Guys, you are not reading the OP .
He doesnt have forks or wheels to take disc brakes, and since his motor is on the front wheel, in order to fit a disc he would have to get a new motor and wheel to suit......that is not realistic.
Also..to 12000s,..new pads and a booster will not give regen....you need to get that controller modified or changed to enable regen..not too expensive !
For now just ger the better Vbrake pads and booster, and see if that gives you the omprovement you want.
 
Uhh,, More like by the time I read to the bottom I forgot it all. Sucks to be old,, sucks even worse if a virus ate some of your brain.

I would not like regen on the front wheel. Unless it was very mild.

I did think his motor had a disc mount,, most do now days. Fork change will get him a disc front if the motor has the mount. Disk in front is not dangerous,, but you do need to not grab it so hard you lock the front wheel. He will have less time spent adjusting pads if he gets a new fork and puts a front disc on. He'd still have to keep up with adjusting or replacing the v brake pads in back.
 
Yeah, my motor has mounting places for a disc, but my fork doesn't. I may need to install some adaptor to install the rotor if a disc is needed. Currently, I am mostly stick to Hillhater's advice to use a brake booster+ebike braking pads without a regen controller to see how things get improved.

The biggest issue for my bike braking is that the front wheel rim has those fine grooves and eat out the braking pad pretty quickly in the case I have to brake a lot on my downhill riding. I cannot replace the rim because it comes with the motor which I don't bother to redo all those spokes. I haven't got the Kool-stop ebike braking pads, but would like to try when the current pads (new) are worn out. Hopefully this works for me.
 
i2000s said:
The biggest issue for my bike braking is that the front wheel rim has those fine grooves and eat out the braking pad pretty quickly in the case I have to brake a lot on my downhill riding. I cannot replace the rim because it comes with the motor which I don't bother to redo all those spokes. I haven't got the Kool-stop ebike braking pads, but would like to try when the current pads (new) are worn out. Hopefully this works for me.

Can you post a picture of your rim? are these fine lines in the rim going all the way around the rim? It sounds like you may have either damaged it or wore it out.
There should be a factory line on the rim. that is supposed to be a wear indicator. Do you still see it?
 
i2000s said:
.........I just double checked, my bike is a Trek 800 Exage Country mountain bike which has iron forks but actually doesn't have the tab for easily mounting the disc rotors on either wheel. ....!
.. :?: :?: ...Well, i guess i somehow read that wrong ? :? :roll:

i2000s said:
Yeah, my motor has mounting places for a disc, but my fork doesn't. I may need to install some adaptor to install the rotor if a disc is needed. .......].
You ( and me) , are obviously confused here....
Why do you think you need an adaptor for the rotor (=disc), if the mounting is already there ?..or is it ??
 
With jus a few exceptions, I've seldom been confidant in most ANY of my bike brakes for over 50yrs!!! Some exceptions were a few coaster brakes as a kid, an old road bike of 18yrs use, and a heavy MB of a dozen yrs use. My recent 29er beach cruiser has been the worst of all. Rear brakes will never set solid, and front barely drags me down no matter what I do,.. even at slow pedaling speeds. None of these were disk, although the front MB brake has thrown me a great distance into the air and nearly over the side of an ICW bridge into shark infested waters,... I ate a great deal of pavement instead!

The motor (rear hub) install on my heavy 29er brought a need for some serious brakes. Regen is nice, but on my bike, it's only effective in quickly slowing the bike down from higher speeds to about 12mph. Brake switches for regen are easily adjusted to activate jus before full braking of the wheels. This allows regen to slow the bike saving brake wear (also allows heavy FULL braking from high speed if needed). Below that 12mph,.. the regen is not so good, and I still needed something solid to rely on. I opted for disks,... for several reasons. Number one,.. was the need for replacing my entire brake system, since NONE of the components were effective nor could they be significantly improved. Number two,.. after riding some friends disk bikes, I found them far more effective than ANY system I've previously had. And last,... MUCH easier to maintain, adjust, AND CHEAPER to repair/replace. Weight and momentum generates some tremendous braking forces, often leveraged greater depending on the brake system!!! And rim systems can see some tremendous and costly wear not no mention, expensive replacement that's not the easiest. Pads is pads,... but much easier replacing a worn or damaged disk, than a worn or damaged rim! I also found disks to be smoother and less trouble,... provided headset is adjusted correctly.

BUT CONVERTING TO DISK CAN BE A PAIN!!!! Don't be tempted to use cheap "adapter mounts"!!! If it's cheap,... it'll be costly in the long run. Those cheap front and rear adapters typically clamp or band to the front forks or rear frame chain stay. You'll never tighten them enough. They'll twist and/or bend from those incredibly leveraged forces and will always result in GREAT damage to disks, calipers, spokes, rims AND YOU!!!! I eventually got a front fork with disk brake mounts. And a thick heavy rear bracket mount that BOLTS to the dropout plate. Oh ya,... and new disks, and spokes. Caliper is a bit mangled and ugly, but still usable and good. UGH!

With a new fork, the front disk system is easy,... even with front hub motor. The rear, not so easy,... but like everyone noted, most braking force is on the front. Eventually, you'll consider a different controller more, something with regen braking. They even allow an adjustment of regen braking levels. Very nice with front hubs. I have a rear hub, so I max this setting. And your existing rear rim brake system is likely enough, for most like you. Probably used less than front brakes, so wear and tear is less too. Jus not for me at speeds of 40mph on a heavy bike!!! Your riding style and speed is going be your biggest factors in choosing a setup,.... but if I had long big hills like that, I opt for an additional 30# anchor or grapple hook too!!! :wink:
 
Hillhater said:
i2000s said:
.........I just double checked, my bike is a Trek 800 Exage Country mountain bike which has iron forks but actually doesn't have the tab for easily mounting the disc rotors on either wheel. ....!
.. :?: :?: ...Well, i guess i somehow read that wrong ? :? :roll:

i2000s said:
Yeah, my motor has mounting places for a disc, but my fork doesn't. I may need to install some adaptor to install the rotor if a disc is needed. .......].
You ( and me) , are obviously confused here....
Why do you think you need an adaptor for the rotor (=disc), if the mounting is already there ?..or is it ??

Sorry, my mistake. I actually don't know how to call those parts of disc brakes. Here are some pictures for the bike fork and motor's mounting places (not on the bike fork right now):
here and here.

A picture of the rim area with grooves: here.
 
i2000s said:
A picture of the rim area with grooves: here.

Thats fine. looks like new. lol
when those black lines go flush with the surface, that rim is done.
 
How committed to that bike are you? Is it a really good bike to begin with? I'd be looking for a great deal on a replacement bike with disc mounts, in the meantime. A used high quality bike I mean. Not just a replacement of poor quality, but a definite upgrade if the bike is only so so quality. If the bike is fine, for whatever reason,, then upgrade that fork.

FWIW,, adding a disc mount to a steel fork is pretty darn easy for anybody with moderate welding skills.

Once you cut a piece of steel for the mount, bolt on the disc brake caliper to the steel. Then with the wheel in the forks, clamp the caliper to the disc by applying the brakes, and adjust it's position on the disc and the fork. Then just a light tack weld to hold it to the fork. Remove the wheel and caliper, and finish the weld.
 
I tried looking up "Trek 800 Exage Country", but it appears Exage refers to the Shimano parts. I wonder if your bike is similar to my Trek 800 Antelope, which had awful rim brakes before/after I electrified it. They were the center pull model on the left, and after trying new pads, and different brake levers, I finally switched to the model on the right. It was $9.98 on ebay for the arms, and I had to use new cables/housing, also about $10. The bike stopped so much better. My rear rim was also one of those very deep rims used with ebike motors, but it works well with the different rim brake levers.

2brake.jpg

Later, I bought a new front fork with suspension, and mounts for disk brakes. I didn't notice much improvement with Avid BB5 mechanical brakes in front, but everyone says those are cheap.

I wouldn't advise upgrading the fork on a Trek 800 series unless you find a fork with caliper mounts that fits exactly. It would have been probably cheaper for me to get the bracket welded on. I ended up replacing everything in front, except for the bell, shifters and brake levers.
 
dogman dan said:
... FWIW,, adding a disc mount to a steel fork is pretty darn easy for anybody with moderate welding skills. ...
and access to a welder. Some of us in more dense urban areas may have the skills but lack the physical space to accomidate such luxuries, Ironically I have ten pounds of brazing rod that somehow got packed in my stuff when I moved. :roll:
 
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