Newbie looking for confirmation she’s not crazy before first conversion

[frogman]

I can ride a bike, but that’s about all I know about them. I want to move my body more and biking to work seems like a great way to do it, but it’d take too long with just my sad and tired legs. I’m handy, so I figure… why not build an ebike? Fun summer project!

I’m looking for confirmation that I’m thinking along the right lines before I spend a ton of money. I want a bike that:
-goes 30-35mph
-does both throttle and pedal assist depending on my mood (of course top speed will differ there, that’s ok, but I plan to mostly pedal but anticipate lazy moments)
-will get me 10.7 miles to work and then back (22 miles total, can charge at work if need be)
-will haul up to a 210lb load. Majority of the time the load will be more like 160

I’ll be riding mostly on paved rolling hills, and want to be able to comfortable ride over mild-moderate frost heave. I have a $1,000-ish budget, but that’s a stretch. The cheaper the better.

After lots of reading I’m leaning towards getting a 750W BBS02 Bafang motor with UART protocol so I can reprogram it to allow for higher speeds. My questions are:

Donor Bike:
I have a Giant Cypress LX that I’ve had for years, and has served me very well. I haven’t ridden it in years, but in college I used to regularly haul 50-75 lbs of groceries in the snow on it. I’d love to use it, since I know it’s comfortable for me. It’s got a front suspension fork and a suspension seat on it. It's an aluminum frame. Is that a horrible donor bike, or OK to use? Pics below.

Brakes:
Most folks are saying it’s best to have disc brakes. My bike doesn’t have them, but the front fork looks like it has mounts for them (pics below). How do I know what disc brakes would fit? Is the rear able to accommodate them too (pics below)? Is it horrible to have disc in the front, rim in the back, if the rear can’t?

I know to get disc brakes I’ll need to get new wheels, since my current wheels don’t have the flange to support the rotor. I’m having a hell of a time knowing what types of wheels match what types of rotors. Am I an idiot? What do I need to know to find the right size/style that will fit both my bike AND the brakes? The tires I currently have say 42-622 (700x40c -28x 1 5/8) on them.

Battery:
Here’s where I’m REALLY at a loss. What battery would you recommend for this project? I don’t have much understanding of amps, watt hours, and all this other lingo. Extra points for a link I can follow.

Buying the motor:
They look cheapest on Ali Express. I’m looking at this one, with no battery, C965 display, and Brake Lever selected. Am I missing anything extreme? Any red flags you see?

https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256807617466270.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.main.2.2008UZk6UZk64h&algo_pvid=53de73d1-f673-4949-a48c-b1b7470d2a4a&algo_exp_id=53de73d1-f673-4949-a48c-b1b7470d2a4a-1&pdp_ext_f=%7B%22order%22%3A%224%22%2C%22eval%22%3A%221%22%7D&pdp_npi=4%40dis%21USD%21896.00%21389.04%21%21%21896.00%21389.04%21%402103010b17470128558369000e59bb%2112000043133189373%21sea%21US%210%21ABX&curPageLogUid=KjyPmsFlMUD4&utparam-url=scene%3Asearch%7Cquery_from%3A#nav-description

Thanks for any and all advice y'all have!

Pics of potential donor bike, is this a horrible idea?

 

[e-beach]

Some thoughts...

If you are crazy then every e-bike builder is just as, if not more crazy then you. You are in the right place!

Your bike looks a little petite for the project, but it might work.

1: measure the bottom bracket to make sure a bb motor will fit. (thats the little tube the pedal crank goes through. maybe the specs for your bike are on-line.

2: I use pull brakes on both my bikes, well maintained they are fine.

3: imo 35mph is too fast for that bike. it is not a moped and wasn't built for that speed. think 20 mph.

4: a good and safe battery is extremely important to a long lasting and safe build. Spending extra money on a good battery is well worth it. A 48v 15ah battery should get you the distances you want. due to the weight, he best place to put it for balance and performance is in the triangle of the frame. think how motorcycles have their motors in the triangle of their frames.

5: Tire traction is important. if you are only on paved roads, get tires without knobbys.

Q: how do you plan to haul 100's of pounds?

 

[scianiac]

You are generally on the right track but a few thoughts as well.

1. You might want to look at a hub motor instead, if your hills aren't that extreme and you're on paved paths and roads there are not a lot of advantages to a mid drive. Some will will be strongly in favor a hub motor but I think it's not a massive difference. Just the hub will be more reliable (not that the BBS02 is unreliable) and might be cheaper. Also DD hub motor means regen braking which is nice.

2. While you can make any bike go that fast you won't be comfortable riding it at that speed with that bike. The steep head tube angle, skinny tires and minimal suspension will make it feel sketchy at those speeds. But honestly I don't think there is really much need to ride that fast if you're just using it as transport and not trying to go fast. I built a bike solving all of those problems, slacked out DH bike, fat tires, big hub motor and sure it will go faster than 35 easily I basically never ride it that fast because it's more enjoyable to just cruise at a comfortable speed. There are some particular differences beyond the one I mentioned that are harder to solve that makes bikes handle differently than motorcycles. I find it's better to play to their advantages. My motorcycle would be faster and feels fine at those speeds partially because it's so heavy but I never ride it and ride my ebike all the time even though it's slower because I enjoy it more.

B. Rim brakes are fine if they are maintained well, get better pads if you're worried about their performance in wet conditions.

Section 2. For battery size look around at other builds and see what kind of range they are getting or play around with Motor Simulator - Tools, speed is a big factor in battery size, another reason why around 20-25mph may be a better target.

IIVX. Honestly though if I was looking for a basic commuter bike and wasn't as super into building bikes as I am I would look around at used ebikes, given how popular they have become you might be able to find one for cheap and while it will certainly be low quality in some respects you can spend the time and money on fixing it up a bit instead. This kinda assumes you know what to look for though, your current bike certainly has better build quality than most cheap ebikes you'll find but that's not always a huge deal in practice.

 

[E-HP]

I’m looking for confirmation that I’m thinking along the right lines before I spend a ton of money. I want a bike that:
-goes 30-35mph
-does both throttle and pedal assist depending on my mood (of course top speed will differ there, that’s ok, but I plan to mostly pedal but anticipate lazy moments)
-will get me 10.7 miles to work and then back (22 miles total, can charge at work if need be)
-will haul up to a 210lb load. Majority of the time the load will be more like 160

Donor Bike:


Brakes:

That’s a 20 mph bike. Without some form of suspension, you’ll be hitting the pavement when you hit a pothole going faster than that, and that’s not fun. If you regularly ride at 30 or above, you should be wearing protective gear and a full face helmet.
Brakes should be fine at anything under 30, with a good set of pads.
The rigid fork is a good candidate for a front geared hub, which would be a super easy/quick installation, and something to get you on the road. Being new to e-bikes, you only know what you think you want, but after some riding, you’ll know what you want.
I would get a cheap plug n play front motor kit, but invest in a good battery, probably a 52v pack, that will supI port future upgrades if you feel the need. Most of your money should be allocated to the battery, and make sure that the listing says exactly what type and brand of cells it’s constructed with.
I would eliminate the requirement for hauling 210lbs with rolling hills for now, and save the money for a future upgrade, since $1000 won’t satisfy the speed and hauling desires.

I have some general info in my newbie faq if you like reading (you would be a kit level builder):

DIY Newb FAQ?

I think I've read through all of the stickies in the ebike forums, which provide great guidance. Yet, I see a lot a new folks getting into ebikes and posting questions that are not in the stickies, or are embedded somewhere among the existing stickies. Another observation is there are...

endless-sphere.com

EDIT: I didn't look closely enough, but see the fork does have suspension. I don't recommend a front hub with a suspension fork.

 

[Diggs]

Right on that link/site you can choose to add a 20 ah battery where they claim to use Samsung cells. If that's truly the case, the price is good and all the electrical connections have been dealt with for you. How to ensure they are Samsung cells? I have no idea......

I'm the owner of a BBSHD on an old converted Ross bicycle and really like it. I'm a country cruiser so the Bafang style cruise control is excellent for me. But, I go through a chain and rear freewheel/cassette almost yearly (but I do ride ~1,500+ miles a year). The 1,000 watt generic (Amazon sold) hub motor I have on a MTB doesn't have those issues as well as not worrying about shifting under heavy loads. I like them both but the Bafang gets all the miles.

 

[amberwolf]

I’m looking for confirmation that I’m thinking along the right lines before I spend a ton of money. I want a bike that:
-goes 30-35mph
-does both throttle and pedal assist depending on my mood (of course top speed will differ there, that’s ok, but I plan to mostly pedal but anticipate lazy moments)
-will get me 10.7 miles to work and then back (22 miles total, can charge at work if need be)
-will haul up to a 210lb load. Majority of the time the load will be more like 160

I recommend going to ebikes.ca and using the motor / trip simulators to experiment and find out what power it will take to do what you want under your specific conditions. Then you can use the results of that to find a system that can provide that much power reliably, and a battery that can provide that much power for the amount of time / distance you need it to, with an extra amount to allow for unusual conditions, detours, and pack aging (capacity and capability will lessen over time, the harder it is used the faster this will happen).

I’ll be riding mostly on paved rolling hills, and want to be able to comfortable ride over mild-moderate frost heave. I have a $1,000-ish budget, but that’s a stretch. The cheaper the better.

Most of your budget will probably go for the battery, as it is the heart of the system that must reliably provide all the power you will use, for as long as you use the system (on each ride, and over the life of the bike).

Donor Bike:
I have a Giant Cypress LX that I’ve had for years, and has served me very well. I haven’t ridden it in years, but in college I used to regularly haul 50-75 lbs of groceries in the snow on it. I’d love to use it, since I know it’s comfortable for me. It’s got a front suspension fork and a suspension seat on it. It's an aluminum frame. Is that a horrible donor bike, or OK to use? Pics below.

I wouldn't use a non-full-suspension bike for the speeds you want.

I'd also recommend larger tires (yours are pretty skinny, not sure you can fit much bigger in your fork/stays; you'd have to check the max tire width). Not "fat" tires (3"+) but maybe 2"-2.5", for better surface area / contact patch for more control and braking, as well as more air volume to provide some cushion against the lesser-bad road conditions at higher speeds.


Have you ridden this bike at those speeds on your worst-case road conditions yet? If not, you might not realize how poorly it may handle with road defects, debris, bumps, holes, etc. Even tiny bumps that at slower speeds of 10-15mph are tolerable can cause loss of traction, steering, etc at higher speeds, and cause a severe crash.


As an aside, I used to have the corpse of a bike of the same design (even same fork and wheels) that a coworker abandoned after the rightside seatstay cracked, and that was just under normal usage (no cargo, just him, I'd guess he was around 160lbs) for several years. So I'd recommend taking it out into direct sunlight with a magnifier and carefully checking out all the points in the frame that may flex (even tiny amounts) to see if there are any cracks, flaking paint (which may be because of a crack you can't see), etc., even if you dont use this for powered riding.

I also had a Columbia bike of similar but cheaper design that also broke in the same place, that I used for DayGlo Avenger (a cargo and dog-hauling commuter bike).

Since then I have used steel bikes to ride, and built my custom bikes from steel, because steel shows signs of stress before it fails, where aluminum (and carbon fiber) tend to fail catastrophically with little or no warning. They also handle flexure from heavy loading better without failing, though that depends on the design and materials and how hard they are being abused. I've broken plenty of steel stuff too, but I usually knew it was going to happen before it did, from bending and other signs of impending doom.

Brakes:
Most folks are saying it’s best to have disc brakes. My bike doesn’t have them, but the front fork looks like it has mounts for them (pics below). How do I know what disc brakes would fit? Is the rear able to accommodate them too (pics below)? Is it horrible to have disc in the front, rim in the back, if the rear can’t?

Do your brakes lock up your wheel now? If so, you literally can't get better braking force than that.

Beyond that, disc vs rim is a debate done many many many times around here, so I recommend reading around the forum's many threads and posts on the subject to see the good and bad of each. There are reasons for each to be used, and with the right version of each, are comparable under most of the same conditions.

Cheaper stuff is less likely to work weil in either case, but cheap rim brakes work better (or can be made to work better with good Koolstop pads and a proper adjustment) than cheap discs.



I currently use the Avid BB7 MTN caliper and 200mm rotor as the only mechanical brake on the heavy heavy-cargo-trike SB Cruiser, and can lock up the front wheel with it--you literally cannot get more braking than that, so it will definitely do the same job on your much lighter bike if you want disc brakes.

But..even stopping from 20mph heats the rotor up far beyond the point it could be touched, which did not happen with the rim brakes I had used before that (also Avid brake arms, don't recall the model) and Koolstop brake pads. The rim would be warm after a number of stops, but never hot. If the brakes get too hot, they may not work as well as they should, and the rim has far more material to heat up than the tiny disc rotor, and can generally dissipate the heat better (greater surface area).

Rim brakes will be "in" the puddles if you ride in rain, but properly set up the pads will scrape taht off as brakes are applied and work anyway; rain will still get on the disc rotors if you are riding while it's raining, and splashes of road contamination will still get on them even if not, which at the start of a rain can include oil... In my experience so far, the oil does not destroy the rim brake pads (they still work, if not as well, until the oil rubs off) but it has permanently ruined the disc pads I have had it get on, decreasing braking to the point they basically didn't work.

I know to get disc brakes I’ll need to get new wheels, since my current wheels don’t have the flange to support the rotor. I’m having a hell of a time knowing what types of wheels match what types of rotors. Am I an idiot? What do I need to know to find the right size/style that will fit both my bike AND the brakes? The tires I currently have say 42-622 (700x40c -28x 1 5/8) on them.

All the bicycle brake rotors fit all the bicycle disc brake wheels; they are all "ISO bolt pattern" with teh six bolts.

If you want to keep the same size wheels, then you need 700c wheels.

If your rear is the same as the broken bike I had it is a cassette rather than freewheel, so your rear must also be a Shimano Cassette capable of holding the cassette you presently have on the bike (or else you may have to change your shifter, derailer, etc to match whatever cassette or freewheel you install on the new wheel).

Buying the motor:
They look cheapest on Ali Express. I’m looking at this one, with no battery, C965 display, and Brake Lever selected. Am I missing anything extreme? Any red flags you see?

Yes, it's on aliexpress.

Remember that whatever you get from places like that won't have any support, no warranty, no guarantee you will get what you ordered, and it's likely they don't know anything about what they sell, and even likely that their ad page is copied from someone else's ad page for a similar item so what you get may not match what's on the page. (that happens on ebay, amazon, etc as well)

 

[docw009]

That's a nice price .. $373 shipped out of a USA warehouse for a BBS02B. Seems to me, you're going to pay at least $300 for a hubmotor kit.

I've had a BBS02B conversion on a department store Diamondback bike in 2016. I rode it a lot the first two years. but don't need its top speed, around 26 on throttle. I bought a new wheel and put a disk brake up front. Didn't need it, Riding it slow, I used the original chain/freewheel, planning to change when it wore out, but it has not, but to be fair, it only has about 2200 miles on the conversion.I think it's a nice motor.

 

[James340]

I buy a lot from Aliexpress&that store looks fake.No history.When I buy from a unknown store I go look at the store and it's history.Aliexress may protect you from a fraudulent seller but you have little legal protection. Just use caution and be diligent to make sure it is a legitimate seller. I have a BBS02 on a road bike and it will do 35 mph throttle only with a 48v battery but it gets hot.I watch/limit current. I would suggest a Direct Drive motor for a bullet proof motor. You can run full throttle with having to worry about the nylon gears that are in Mid drive and Geared hubs.All 3 style of motor go about the same speed.Higher voltage is higher speed. 52 or 60 volt is what I wish I had used instead of 48v.

 

[James340]

I am not affiliated or advocate for the store just using for example of what appears to be a legitimate store. My internet is really slow and wouldn't load everything.

 

[E-HP]

That's a nice price .. $373 shipped out of a USA warehouse for a BBS02B. Seems to me, you're going to pay at least $300 for a hubmotor kit.

I just installed the TSDZ8, 750w, same price delivered. In my case the motor arrived in 2 days, but the display shipped from china and took 2 weeks (1 week stuck in customs). If the OP wants a torque sensor, it’s a decent option.

https://www.amazon.com/Varstrom-TSDZ8-750W-Drive-Motor/dp/B0F2669P1J

I was surprised to see that the same basic 1000w 9C rear hub motor kit was only $15 more than I paid 6-1/2 years ago. But back then, shipping was free, and Amazon recently started charging $50. So $210 (plus tax).

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BVM3BP3B

 

[E-HP]

With the right winding, a cheap 9C direct drive clone motor will meet your speed goal, but as mentioned, not a speed that would be safe. With a 52V, 24Ah battery pack, you would have enough range, riding on flat ground. Riding a more reasonable speed of 20mph, substantially increases your range, since wind drag won't be robbing your power.

Motor Simulator - Tools

Our ebike motor simulator allows you to easily simulate the different performance characteristics of different ebike setups - with a wide selection of hub motors modeled, and the ability to add custom batteries and controllers and set a wide variety of vehicle parameters you'll be able to see...

ebikes.ca

With a 5% grade, simulating rolling hills, you don't need to worry about overheating (both models are assuming using statorade for cooling). But, adding 200lbs will limit your time to meltdown to 13 minutes (at 23mph). Not sure if your rolling hills have any sustained climbs.

Motor Simulator - Tools

Our ebike motor simulator allows you to easily simulate the different performance characteristics of different ebike setups - with a wide selection of hub motors modeled, and the ability to add custom batteries and controllers and set a wide variety of vehicle parameters you'll be able to see...

ebikes.ca

Knowing your total weight without load would make the simulation more accurate. Knowing the grade of the hills would be helpful, or a google maps location, which would allow checking the grade as well.
Since total weight will include the e components, you could use something around 35lbs, then add your weight plus the donor bike weight,

 

[2old]

Your selection of a BBS02 is excellent since I've been riding one off road for 10 years with no problems; it appears as though your frame is compatible. That said, I think a 26" MTB frame from the 90's would be a better candidate (you should be able to basically sell your Giant and buy one for the same price). Your brakes will be fine and if you want to solidify them, procure Kool Stop pads (swapping pads is very easy). Be really careful if you decide to go with a rear hub (I wouldn't even consider a front with your fork) since your bike may have 130mm rear dropouts and most (all) rear hubs are 135 mm (you might need to ask a bike shop if this isn't something you've dealt with before).

 

[E-HP]

Your selection of a BBS02 is excellent since I've been riding one off road for 10 years with no problems; it appears as though your frame is compatible. That said, I think a 26" MTB frame from the 90's would be a better candidate (you should be able to basically sell your Giant and buy one for the same price). Your brakes will be fine and if you want to solidify them, procure Kool Stop pads (swapping pads is very easy). Be really careful if you decide to go with a rear hub (I wouldn't even consider a front with your fork) since your bike may have 130mm rear dropouts and most (all) rear hubs are 135 mm (you might need to ask a bike shop if this isn't something you've dealt with before).

Since the OP doesn't have any bicycle knowledge except for riding one, it will be necessary for the OP to learn how to change a chain on the road, depending on how often those 200lb loads will be hauled over those rolling hills. I was thinking, given the skill set described, that the lowest maintenance option might be best, if it can accomplish the other requirements.

 

[biphaeboh]

Lots of good advice here, don't disagree with any of it, but of course the choices made would depend on the intended use and the skill level of the user.
I would probably consider a hub motor first but a BBS02 is a good choice.
If considering a used ebike, I would be cautious about the battery, a lot of used batteries seem to be in bad shape. I do volunteer work with a trails organization that has a fleet of ebikes. They are properly maintained and get fairly constant use in the warmer months, but after two or three seasons at least 20% of them have the battery range down to about 40% of new.
For carrying heavy loads, I would suggest a trailer. My BBS02 is on an old early 2000s vintage mountain bike, and I have a little burley two wheel trailer. I consistently haul 120 lb loads on it , and the BBS02 has lots of power for going up the hills.

 

[Chalo]

30-35 mph is slow in a car and even on a motorcycle, but it's really fast on a bicycle. I've been predominantly riding bikes for transportation since the latter half of the '80s, studying bikes since that time, working in bike stops as a mechanic starting in '92, working this millennium in cycle manufacturing, etc. etc. etc. I don't mind occasionally flying downhill in certain circumstances at up to 55 mph, but around town and beleaguered by cars, I don't go 35 mph. Even 30 mph is for special conditions when car traffic is at a manageable distance and surfaces are visibly clear.

That's a lot of words to say that it feels/is much faster and riskier than it sounds.

My advice is, if you live somewhere you can rent a class 3 e-bike (28mph max) to try it out, do that. Figure out what your good fun confident speed is, and design for that. Note that an e-bike designed for 28 may have features, like full suspension, speed oriented steering geometry, and uprated brakes, that make it more controllable and capable than your existing bike is at the same speed.

A mid drive like BBS02 has the advantage of a wider envelope of capabilities and efficient speeds than a similarly powered hub motor, but the tradeoff is that it puts out several times more power than the average of a human pedaling. So it breaks and wears out the cycle's parts much more quickly and frequently than a normal bike doing the same mileage. Contrarily, using a hub motor lightens the work for your bike's pedal drive and usually reduces maintenance overall.

What else to note? Your existing bike doesn't support a disc brake in back. You can use one in front if you must.

Disc brakes have advantages in that you can use fatter tires, and you can ride longer and better on bent or damaged rims, and you can retrofit different wheel sizes to the same frame. But they do not stop better, except in the claims of people who never used good rim brakes or never tried them at all. Bad discs are far worse than basic rim brakes that cost less and are easier to live with. Good discs are not more effective than good rim brakes. I've got both kinds, and I've been doing this a long long time. Heck, you could put a $100 disc in front and a $50 rim brake in back, get them both set up by an old pro mechanic, and decide for yourself.

A final note is that a good pedal bike and a good e-bike are usually not the same kind of bike. When you electrify, weight isn't a disadvantage, and limber resilient construction isn't an advantage. When you're not pushing pedals as hard, you don't need to lean your body forward as much to serve as a counterpoise against pedal pressure. At higher speeds, sitting upright for situational awareness becomes more desirable. Wide gear range and small increment spacing that could be very important on a pedal bike, isn't important when the motor is doing most of the work.

I find that the qualities that make a bike (relatively) cheap, traditional, utilitarian, and simple lend themselves to e-bikes. Features designed to be sporty, flashy, or fashionable work against e-bike conversion.

 

[E-HP]

Disc brakes have advantages in that you can use fatter tires, and you can ride longer and better on bent or damaged rims, and you can retrofit different wheel sizes to the same frame. But they do not stop better, except in the claims of people who never used good rim brakes or never tried them at all. Bad discs are far worse than basic rim brakes that cost less and are easier to live with. Good discs are not more effective than good rim brakes. I've got both kinds, and I've been doing this a long long time. Heck, you could put a $100 disc in front and a $50 rim brake in back, get them both set up by an old pro mechanic, and decide for yourself.

After moving from rim brakes, to cable disc brakes, and then to 4 piston hydraulics, and now back to rim brakes for my full suspension build, I totally forgot how effective the rim brakes are. Even before changing out the 15 year old pads, they almost unexpectedly threw me over the bars. With new pads, they work even better. Now I have to get reacquainted with how to modulate them better, so I don't go over the bars in a panic stop. At this moment, they have a lot more stopping power than the 4 piston discs, but are more challenging to modulate. I think it will just take practice and time to reacquire that skill. I think some of the power is due to using these old XTR levers. They have a camming action that creates more leverage as you apply the brakes. Since I was getting rid of their integrated shifters, I was about to swap them out with some plain levers (Avid, etc.), but realized without the camming action, those levers would take more effort, so I gutted the shifting components, so I could keep the levers. I love the feel of the 4 piston brakes, but not because they are more powerful.

 

[ZeroEm]

Hauling 200lbs up and down hills would make regen a plus feature and make the brakes last longer.

 

[bananu7]

I love the feel of the 4 piston brakes, but not because they are more powerful.

Yeah, but isn't that like, the point? What's the use of huge stopping power if it's not reliable, predictable and you can modulate it effectively?

I've been riding bicycles for quite a while as well, and just to offer another perspective, my main reason for choosing hydraulic disc brakes are reliability and minimal maintenance. Back when I had cable operated V-brakes, they required constant attention. In the dirt they got dirty everywhere, the balance required constant adjusting, cable required constant adjusting, cable got dirty and worked poorly, worsening power and modulation. I liked really short free lever travel which meant i had to keep the wheels spot on in terms of straightness, because anything else was an immediate compromise in braking ability. It just plain sucked to have them.

Once I transitioned to hydraulic disc brakes, some of which still on my old 26" bike, it was a night and day difference. Suddenly i had brakes that just worked, at any speed, at any temperature, required just brushing off on the outside and provided consistent, predictable, easy to modulate power. I did zero service to them for the first few years of ownership. When it came to replace the pads in the front, I swapped the entire brake system to a shimano XT from the same generation, because a used one cost not much more than pads. When it came to replace the pads in the rear, I got a set of Avid Juicy 3 for literally free, because that's about the price of brakes on the used market right now.

During the 10? 15? years of ownership of disc brakes, i had one contaminated set of pads (from outside factors) that I replaced, zero leaks, zero needs to adjust, i didn't bother replacing the mineral oil at all and flushed the DOT from Avids once when I got them.

My SO's bike has V-brakes and since I do maintenance on both, I'm living through that again. I can't wait until we throw that prehistoric garbage in the trash and finally get her something with hydraulic disc brakes.

 

[E-HP]

Yeah, but isn't that like, the point? What's the use of huge stopping power if it's not reliable, predictable and you can modulate it effectively?

I've been riding bicycles for quite a while as well, and just to offer another perspective, my main reason for choosing hydraulic disc brakes are reliability and minimal maintenance. Back when I had cable operated V-brakes, they required constant attention. In the dirt they got dirty everywhere, the balance required constant adjusting, cable required constant adjusting, cable got dirty and worked poorly, worsening power and modulation. I liked really short free lever travel which meant i had to keep the wheels spot on in terms of straightness, because anything else was an immediate compromise in braking ability. It just plain sucked to have them.

Once I transitioned to hydraulic disc brakes, some of which still on my old 26" bike, it was a night and day difference. Suddenly i had brakes that just worked, at any speed, at any temperature, required just brushing off on the outside and provided consistent, predictable, easy to modulate power. I did zero service to them for the first few years of ownership. When it came to replace the pads in the front, I swapped the entire brake system to a shimano XT from the same generation, because a used one cost not much more than pads. When it came to replace the pads in the rear, I got a set of Avid Juicy 3 for literally free, because that's about the price of brakes on the used market right now.

During the 10? 15? years of ownership of disc brakes, i had one contaminated set of pads (from outside factors) that I replaced, zero leaks, zero needs to adjust, i didn't bother replacing the mineral oil at all and flushed the DOT from Avids once when I got them.

My SO's bike has V-brakes and since I do maintenance on both, I'm living through that again. I can't wait until we throw that prehistoric garbage in the trash and finally get her something with hydraulic disc brakes.

All of my off-road mtb riding has been using cantilevered and linear pull brakes. Never had issues and didn’t mind brake or bike maintenance’s, back then. I agree that discs are great for lazy people, like I’ve become now. As far as performance goes, skill with any brake system takes practice. I’d practice on my motorcycles any time I’d been off of them for more than a week, practicing panic stops, etc.. Every vehicle is different, and requires some driver/rider adjustment. A lot of folks don’t have the 400lbs of leg force required to apply the brakes on a formula one car to get the superior braking performance, and would trade off performance foe ease, using power disc brakes. We all get lazy, and that’s ok, especially at bike and ebike speeds.

 

[frogman]

Wow y'all! You've given me a LOT to think about! I should clarify - I'm the 160 lb load, and might put like 50 more lbs on a rack or in paniers, but I'm not looking to trailer anything. Sorry for that confusion!

I really appreciate all these thoughts - you've given me lots to stew on and some really great tips! I like the idea of trying to rent a class 3 bike for a bit. Some friends have concerns that the roads are too dangerous around me (I'm out in the country where cars speed, there aren't great shoulders, and not many bikes), so I might do that to see if it's even a good idea and if I feel safe. I also appreciate the input on speed, and thinking about how my frame would/wouldn't hold up to different pressures. I'll be keeping an eye out for full-suspension and older steel mountain bikes.

 

[2old]

I love biking and have been enjoying the exercise for many, many years, but abhor the idea of riding on roads with no shoulder and cars whizzing past. IMO, keep driving and find another outlet for your regimen. If it's biking, build or purchase an "e" mountain or road bike and enjoy safer areas.

 

[frogman]

I love biking and have been enjoying the exercise for many, many years, but abhor the idea of riding on roads with no shoulder and cars whizzing past. IMO, keep driving and find another outlet for your regimen. If it's biking, build or purchase an "e" mountain or road bike and enjoy safer areas.

Thankfully it's the country, so the cars are far and fewer between, but yea... It makes me think twice too. One of the reasons I want a FAST bike is so that there's less of a speed difference between me and the cars. It's less shocking coming around a corner and finding a vehicle going 30 rather than 10, when you're driving at 50.