Chalo
100 TW
Agreed-- hoarding batteries is like hoarding bread or milk. They don't get better with time, and they don't last that long.
Edison nickel-iron cells excepted, perhaps.
Edison nickel-iron cells excepted, perhaps.
A123 Systems: 'No assurance' it can continue to operate
- Thread starter TylerDurden
- Start date
etriker
100 kW
bigmoose said:
http://www.a123systems.com/about-us-asset-purchase-agreement-and-chapter-11-filing.htm
It looks like China does not get A123 ?
Fisker Wants Court to Delay A123 Bankruptcy Auction
http://www.businessweek.com/news/2012-10-26/fisker-wants-court-to-delay-a123-bankruptcy-auction
http://www.businessweek.com/news/2012-10-26/fisker-wants-court-to-delay-a123-bankruptcy-auction
Jason27
10 kW
Most likely the company wangchung will outbid everyone then take entire a123, their patents, and our taxpayer money to china.
That's capitalism for ya!!
That's capitalism for ya!!
GCinDC
100 MW
arkmundi
10 MW
A123 wins bankruptcy court approval of bid procedures for sale of automotive assets
Contrary to earlier posts, A123's assets have not as yet been sold, and there is now apparently a bidding war between Johnson Controls and Wanxiang. Since the world's largest lithium-ion battery maker is party, even though they are already manufacturing lithium-ion batteries, the emerging story ought squash other rather misinformed opinions that A123 is not worthy of such a squabble. They after all possess both the intellectual and manufacturing powress behind the best of batteries. Its just a shame they didn't enlist better management early on and thereafter made some fatal mistakes.
arkmundi
10 MW
A123 Receives Court Approval to Hold Dec. 6 Auction... so the number of companies bidding is up to 25:
A123 the company may not continue to operate, but fortunately its technology will.
e-beach
10 MW
arkmundi said:A123 Receives Court Approval to Hold Dec. 6 Auction... so the number of companies bidding is up to 25:
A123 the company may not continue to operate, but fortunately its technology will.
With all these big companies going after A123 assets, if they really are that valuable to a well managed company, makes me wonder just how A123 mismanaged themselves into the ground? I understand the slow economy causing sluggish electric car sales, the Fisker recall, but their has to be a lot more to it then that.....
Chalo
100 TW
e-beach said:
A lot of technology acquisitions are about nothing more than denying the resources in question to potential competitors. The bigger players on the bidders list may have no interest at all in actually developing or producing the things in A123's intellectual property.
e-beach
10 MW
Chalo said:
Good point!
e-beach
10 MW
Phoebus said:
Another good point.
USAEBIKECO
10 kW
My opinion is that no way Obama or Congress will allow any foreign company to buy an American company that taxpayers have invested so heavily in. National security is another reason.
I see only a American company buying A123.
I see only a American company buying A123.
Chalo
100 TW
You make it sound like Obama and Congress are looking out for American taxpayers or something. I don't think they care one way or another who buys A123, as long as none of it sticks to them. And why would it?
arkmundi
10 MW
I give our government a well deserved benefit of the doubt. There's been a huge change over the last four years that the public remains oblivious to, starting with the DOE and EPA. Picking out the bad apples (like A123) out of a barrel of good fruit and holding them up for display is just partisan politics. Overall, the public investment has been well placed. We very much live in a global economy where investment flows around regardless of national boundaries. Remember also that China is the largest creditor to the USofA, both private & public. No one in Congress will nix foreign investments in A123, because they can't and it would also be politically bad form. It will be what it will be - I'm only an interested observer. December 6th is the auction of A123's assets.
Jeremy Harris
100 MW
Punx0r said:
Quite. A123 is already multinational, with the Chinese owning a big stake and the manufacturing technology being in use in one or two countries outside the US, as I understand it. The only stake that the US has is the US tax dollars used to try and support the company within the US. My guess is that these tax dollars just get written off when the company goes bust, just as any other investor's money does.
arkmundi
10 MW
Unless you're from MIT, you probably are not aware of their reach. They're an international school, with satelite campuses everywhere. And then there's the Internet (which MIT research is at the base of, throughout the protocol. What I'm trying to say, there is no "National Security" or "Industrial Security" because MIT knowledge is all pervasive, including in China. The only protection A123 are any company has is patents, because most nations respect them. The underlying tech, nanotech, is already being research and applied by many others. "National Security" is a gollum of Congress. The nationality that is taking over MIT? You got it - China.
e-beach
10 MW
Sorry Fisker!
Snip.....
A123 Systems, Inc. (NASDAQ:AONE), the former battery supplier for Fisker, recently became bankrupt in what is proving to be a terrible, complex and time-consuming process. Meanwhile, as the courts try to figure out where parts of the company should go, Fisker has been left without batteries for their cars. Though they had stockpiled some before A123 went completely under, this stock has run out and Car & Driver is reporting that Fisker is now temporarily shutting down production until a solution can be found....snip.
http://wallstcheatsheet.com/stocks/...-and-4-auto-stocks-making-headlines-now.html/
Snip.....
A123 Systems, Inc. (NASDAQ:AONE), the former battery supplier for Fisker, recently became bankrupt in what is proving to be a terrible, complex and time-consuming process. Meanwhile, as the courts try to figure out where parts of the company should go, Fisker has been left without batteries for their cars. Though they had stockpiled some before A123 went completely under, this stock has run out and Car & Driver is reporting that Fisker is now temporarily shutting down production until a solution can be found....snip.
http://wallstcheatsheet.com/stocks/...-and-4-auto-stocks-making-headlines-now.html/
liveforphysics
100 TW
arkmundi said:
I think it would be fun to see what harm the countries that respect patents caused A123 vs the harm caused by countries that don't respect patents.
If you're not aware, A123 was wrapped up in a >3-way multi-national legal battle over various patent related disputes that lasted many years and cost the company many many millions of dollars. End conclusion, same as everything patent related, lawyers got rich and harm was caused to all participating groups and economies.
I wonder how much harm that caused vs a couple of Chinese companies lowering the resistance of there phosphate cathode slurry by adding exceptionally tiny carbon particles.
Chalo
100 TW
neptronix said:
Or if American firms that owned the patents would just license them instead of suing people willy-nilly, and of course if Chinese manufacturers were willing to pay the licensing fees.
For whatever reason, American corporate interests are a lot better at owning patents than they are at productively managing patented technology. They are not even smart about charging rent on their intellectual property, which is a lot of what they do anymore.
For what it's worth, patents last twenty years. So over the next five to twenty, we'll start seeing what we should have had available over the last fifteen years.
arkmundi
10 MW
No, I think you may be missing my point. What MIT researchers go for is "intellectual property rights," as they are the originators. Its the whole point of being a part of that vast R&D empire. It is VERY large and they have relations around the globe. The national borders, like between the US and China, don't exist. Because they have citizens of these nationalities both here and there, working together. They do the research and use the very well honed machinery at MIT to turn their research into patents, then into products, then into companies. Its how A123 got its start.
There's a complete food chain involved. So the MIT researchers hold patents that they then license. They don't care if its an American company, a Chinese company, an international multinational, or wherever, because their "nationality" is not any of those. Their "nationality" as in where their allegiance lies, is with themselves and their research community at MIT. They don't care if its A123 as a company, or the Wanxiang Group or Johnson Controls that holds the license to manufacture, just as long their intellectual property is respected and the royalties flow. Indeed, if say Johnson Controls is more capable of doing the manufacturing, then it would be their preference, because their royalty checks would be bigger.
Oh, and by the way, MIT in the process of turning research into companies is then granted stock in those companies, independent of the researchers and their patents. So yea, there may be some preference to preserve the value of that stock, as with A123. We'll see what transpires December 6th. Best.
There's a complete food chain involved. So the MIT researchers hold patents that they then license. They don't care if its an American company, a Chinese company, an international multinational, or wherever, because their "nationality" is not any of those. Their "nationality" as in where their allegiance lies, is with themselves and their research community at MIT. They don't care if its A123 as a company, or the Wanxiang Group or Johnson Controls that holds the license to manufacture, just as long their intellectual property is respected and the royalties flow. Indeed, if say Johnson Controls is more capable of doing the manufacturing, then it would be their preference, because their royalty checks would be bigger.
Oh, and by the way, MIT in the process of turning research into companies is then granted stock in those companies, independent of the researchers and their patents. So yea, there may be some preference to preserve the value of that stock, as with A123. We'll see what transpires December 6th. Best.
