ABS on E-Bike? (Anti-Block-System for braking)

[DasDouble]

I was thinking about an ABS system for my futur E-Bike. In my opinion an ABS system could have saved me in a lot of situations where I had an accident because of blockading my tires when braking. Now these days it just happens when driving on wet therain. What do you guys think about it? Any idea where you can buy such Brake-System? Maybe someone who has already something like that on his bike?

-Cheers, Elias

 

[themadhatter106]

As far as I know I haven't seen an ABS braking system for a bicycle. They do exist on motorcycles though so its definitely possible. Hell, you might even be able to retrofit a motorcycle system on your bike but is it really worth the effort?

20 years ago we would have never expected hydraulic brakes on a bike nor electronic battery powered shifting. Who knows, ABS might be in the future of bike brakes.

 

[amberwolf]

Both of the cheap generic controllers on my SB Cruiser have what amounts to EABS, never locking up the wheel just providing fairly hard braking. (they're 20" wheels, so if they were larger I'd probably get even harder braking).

Like any system, if there's enough water to hydroplane, it isn't completely skid-proof, and I don't know that it actually detects a lack of traction and ceases braking on it's own, but they sure helped a lot in the recent week of rain.

Other controllers, better-designed, probably do even better at this. You might check out the Lebowski controller chip here on the forums and see if it has the feature in it's latest version (he keeps improving it).

 

[Hillhater]

FYI ....
ABS = Anti-lock Braking System

 

[amberwolf]

Oh, and i forgot to mention that it is illegal to have ABS brakes on bicycles (or at least, one brake must not be ABS) in some places, like here in AZ, where it is required that the brake be able to skid the wheel on a level dry surface. Not that you *have* to skid it, but you must be *able* to do so--an ABS would prevent that and so would be illegal, even though it might be safer under the right conditions.

title 28-817. Bicycle equipment
C. A bicycle shall be equipped with a brake that enables the operator to make the braked wheels skid on dry, level, clean pavement.

So on my trike, the front brake is a regular mechanical that can do that, and the rear brakes are the motor brakes using EABS.

 

[Mammalian04]

The opposite would be useful. There are times to bring the rear to lockup but I can't think of any where you would want the front locked up.

Therein lies the challenge. You would have to have some interim piece to the system between the Master Cylinder and caliper for the front wheel.

I sure could use that too! As Stoner once told Rossi, my ambition sometimes surpasses my skill and results in injury. I am all about improving skill to keep you out of trouble but if there was something that would have saved my dumb *ss from this last crash, it sure would have made life for the first half of 2016 a lot easier!

 

[amberwolf]

The opposite would be useful. There are times to bring the rear to lockup but I can't think of any where you would want the front locked up.

That's true, but in my case I don't presently have that option, due to the configuration of the trike. I'd have to rebuild it in a pretty different way to do that. (with the present components I have available, it would mean making a long tadpole with the cargo area forward of the rider and making complicated steering and whatnot, vs how it's setup now as a long delta with rear cargo area with simple steering mechanism).

 

[Warren]

David Gordon Wilson of MIT, who wrote Bicycle Science (a great book if you don't know of it) many years ago designed a pretty simple and effect anti-skid braking system for upright bikes...at least for riding on pavement. The rear brake worked as normal, but could move slightly around the rim when actuated, either on a short linear slide, or on an arm traveling in an arc. The brake's ability to move around with the rim was constrained by an adjustable compression spring. When you squeezed the brake lever, the brake caliper would grab the rim, and start to move around and forward. A brake cable attached to the brake caliper would then actuate the front brake. The rotating rear wheel would continue to tighten the front brake caliper until the rear wheel would start to lift, reducing the tension on the front brake. The sensitivity of the system was adjusted by adjusting the spring that held the rear brake caliper back. The system worked beautifully. You could slam on the rear brake for all you were worth and it would slow the bike as fast as physically possible without the bike flipping. They tested it repeatedly on a test track, and stopping distances were much shorter than a skilled rider could accomplish. In fact it put so much force on the front fork blades that it eventually failed. It never went into production because it was a bit more expensive, and the big company he was trying to interest at the time didn't want to give the impression that their standard brakes weren't good enough.

 

[Chalo]

True anti-lock brakes require two things that bikes don't have: sensors that can detect wheel slip, and power brake boost that can be controlled according to the sensor data.

That brake system described by David Gordon Wilson was called Calderazzo. It would prevent tipping the bike on its front wheel, but wouldn't in principle prevent skidding either wheel. The rear brake wasn't limited at all, and the front wheel could be skidded if the rear wheel had more traction available than the front.

Last year, I built a bike for myself with a SRAM Automatix two-speed coaster brake hub. My intention for this bike is to try putting a self-servo front brake on it, pulled by the torque arm on the coaster brake. Like the Calderazzo brake, this arrangement would limit front braking to an amount proportional to the rear tire's braking force on the ground, and it would completely prevent tip-up.

Along with many other projects, I haven't gotten around to hacking it out yet, and I've been using the bike with a normal front hand brake.

 

[amberwolf]

http://www.gizmag.com/slidepad-sliding-brake-pad-bikes/29151/

 

[Warren]

Yup. There are/were several similar designs. As Chalo suggested, this works best on an upright with typical weight distribution, on flat pavement. Going down my steep, loose gravel driveway on a LWB recumbent with this system would be "interesting."

 

[Henri_gr]

http://www.kingindustries.ca/SABS.htm

 

[Hillhater]

http://www.kingindustries.ca/SABS.htm

Clever......but it's a shame most bikes that might need ABS will be fitted with Disc brakes !

 

[LockH]

"ABS brakes and traction control could soon be the norm for e-bikes"
("German firm demonstrates its forthcoming anti-lock braking system")
http://www.bikeradar.com/us/road/gear/article/abs-bicycle-brakes-for-e-bikes-first-look-48000/

uses actuators and sensors on a modified version of Brake Force One’s H20 water-filled brakes, and is set to be available in early 2018.

 

[Chalo]

Interconnected braking regimes that use reaction force from the rear brakes to apply the front brakes have been experimented with since the 1970s at least. These are inherently not "antilock" brakes, because it it quite possible to lock the rear brake, but "anti-tip" brakes, because the instant the rear wheel departs the ground, the front brake is completely released.

"Slidepad" brakes using this concept have been OEM equipment on mass-market bikes.

 

[flat tire]

Desire for ABS just means you haven't practiced braking enough. With experience ABS is not necessary or even desirable.

 

[MadRhino]

Desire for ABS just means you haven't practiced braking enough. With experience ABS is not necessary or even desirable.

+1

Buy good brakes, ideally with brake levers that are adjustable for reach and bite point. Then learn to calm your nerves and practice to achieve the shortest braking distance on various surfaces. Soon you will be able to brake shorter than any other vehicle on the street, no matter the conditions and no matter if they have ABS.

 

[Voltron]

Even with the best braking reflexes, there are times ABS might help out. I was coming around a corner on a bike path and suddenly blinded by car headlights just at the right time to miss seeing a pile of wet leaves and wiped out, and I've got great reflexes. And there are plenty of ageing riders out there not necessarily racing into corners and looking for the shortest stopping, but rather the safest stop in the real world of oily spots, slippery manhole covers, and black ice patches. Is it for everybody? Prob not, and I don't particularly want it... but there are many that could benefit from it.

 

[LockH]

Might point out? Object of exercise maybe is to wean some folks out of the horseless carriage ("car") by making the bicycle more like something they are already familiar with? ("Oh. It has a motor???")

 

[fesanand]

There's an obvious advantage having the ABS on wet conditions.


[youtube]LGAuvLP-vxA[/youtube]


A pity they didn't try braking in the middle of curve on dry conditions.


.

 

[flat tire]

Even with the best braking reflexes, there are times ABS might help out. I was coming around a corner on a bike path and suddenly blinded by car headlights just at the right time to miss seeing a pile of wet leaves and wiped out, and I've got great reflexes. And there are plenty of ageing riders out there not necessarily racing into corners and looking for the shortest stopping, but rather the safest stop in the real world of oily spots, slippery manhole covers, and black ice patches. Is it for everybody? Prob not, and I don't particularly want it... but there are many that could benefit from it.

It's not about reflexes, it's about practice. Without a lot of practice your reflexes won't know what to do. Thanks to riding MX I have absolutely no problems with using the non-ABS even when taken completely by surprise since I have lots of practice BEING surprised and then having to brake hard. In MX the bike is constantly moving and sliding around on you on the dirt, so really the non ABS braking is a small part of the overall skills and comfort on a bike you gain.

Also, it's a hugely important part of going fast (or just riding safely) to be able to assess the road in front of you. If you're going to ride fast on roads or paths with sketchy lighting such that you can be blinded by a car's lights, and you didn't ride once before that day to note obstacles or things like a pile of leaves...that's poor judgement and it's on you.

 

[Punx0r]

And for the 99.99% of consumers who aren't expert MX riders, ABS provides a real safety benefit.

 

[fesanand]

And for the 99.99% of consumers who aren't expert MX riders, ABS provides a real safety benefit.

That's the point. Emergency straight braking in a dry condition can be trained and I sometimes do at the cost of tyre wear. It's like a game "let's see if I can brake to full stop before a virtual point"

But emergency breaking in curve or any breaking in wet conditions... I don't see anyone pushing the limits, even on a bmx.

 

[Voltron]

Well that's a little judgmental there flat tire... Or maybe I'm just being counter judgmental

If I was racing on an MX track, sure, I wouldn't be wanking about wiping out, and I for sure wouldn't want ABS. I do practice, and this was on my 13 mile each way commute at the time. So I not only rode it the day before, I rode it twice a day for the 570 or so days before, half the time in the dark. And it's not sketchily lit, it's totally unlit! Out of the whole 13 miles, there's one unavoidable corner where the path leaves dark woods and and turns and runs next to oncoming road traffic. I wasn't riding fast, and you can only crank up your own light to overpower the car headlights but so much without blinding other bikers coming around the turn. Short of getting off and walking the bike a few hundred yards there's not much about it you can do.

That's the point... Even though I know that path like the back of my hand, and was riding at a normally very safe speed for that corner, when you put on enough miles commuting things happen esp. when you're tired from working all day, and not maintaining hyper alert focus like you can on a few laps around a track.

I still don't want ABS personally, even though it might have helped on the one time in a thousand combo of that corner, the one jerk with the extra bright high mounted lights, at the exact second of having the front wheel on a one foot diameter pile of wet leaves that wasn't there that morning due to midday showers.
But somebody else who values their face little more might...

 

[MadRhino]

I am riding every day of the year in a cold country, this means half of the time on slippery surfaces. ABS are not a compensation for slow reflexes, but rather a taming solution for nervous drivers who are locking their wheels. Braking efficiency is not about reflexes, it is about brain and feeling and that is exactly what ABS is giving to those who are missing somme.

On the street, the average driver does brake much better with ABS and that is a very good reason to implement them on any vehicle, in cold countries especially. Yet, in most conditions the ABS is achieving a longer braking distance than an experienced pilot.