Aerodynamics

[Chalo]

Position on the bike is the biggest thing. And I've YET to see anyone in person on ebike who rode in a slightly aero position. Comfort is more important than battery range.

Yep; when I'm near the hike and bike trail, I can tell the folks on e-bikes a quarter mile away because they are the ones riding with a "born to be wild" chopper moto body position. Beyond a certain point, it doesn't get any more comfortable to bring the bars higher and closer-- even if it does get more awkward-- but it seems that our local e-bikers don't know that.

Of course, on the hike and bike trail, nobody moves fast enough to make aerodynamics a real factor. I think it was exceptionally good planning for Rocket Electrics to open right on the margin of the trail. It plays to the strengths of turn-key e-bikes without showcasing their weaknesses.

 

[LockH]

Folks. I'm sorry to keep bringing this up, but the aero part in "AEROdynamics"?

Because for "landlubbers" it's something to be avoided in travel, while some here may have travelled many thousands of miles using moving air as "wind".



So, more often ON "water". Watt of course is no interest.



Say, anybuddy else on Alt.Planet ES sailed a small buggy around? (One afternoon, on land, but amusing for a (usually "wet" sailor.)







And I maybe have already used the phrase "FREE ENERGY" here? (Wear and "tear" and maintenance givens. So "free" a bit of "stretch" - poetic license perhaps.)







(And generally Bettery-Electric traction waaay less "STINKY"/"dirty"/POISONOUS.)







So Ebikers may concern themselves with "C-Rates" etc. Battery "consumption" and "long life", etc. But in "aerodynamic" terms I KNOW there's "opportunity" there re SAVING MONEY people (Those words rated high re attracting attention/thought.)

 

[veloman]

Position on the bike is the biggest thing. And I've YET to see anyone in person on ebike who rode in a slightly aero position. Comfort is more important than battery range.

Yep; when I'm near the hike and bike trail, I can tell the folks on e-bikes a quarter mile away because they are the ones riding with a "born to be wild" chopper moto body position. Beyond a certain point, it doesn't get any more comfortable to bring the bars higher and closer-- even if it does get more awkward-- but it seems that our local e-bikers don't know that.

Of course, on the hike and bike trail, nobody moves fast enough to make aerodynamics a real factor. I think it was exceptionally good planning for Rocket Electrics to open right on the margin of the trail. It plays to the strengths of turn-key e-bikes without showcasing their weaknesses.

The vast majority of people who rent the ebikes are non cyclists. They also prefer the seat so low that they can be flat footed when on the saddle. I guess it doesn't really matter since pedal effort is so low anyway. I try telling them "no, you should be able to be flat footed when seated, that is not how bicycling works." But it's best to just make sure they are most comfortable/feel safe. Remember, many of these people haven't been on bikes in 10,20, 30 years often times (and for many, it's their FIRST time ). It is great for getting the word out about how useful and fun ebikes are.

 

[John in CR]

Chalo,

I tuck at least somewhat every time I get on the highway. Head into a big Texas wind and the low powered ebikers will inevitably do the same because wind resistance knocks their speed down so much. By 30mph the difference in power requirement of upright or tucked is hundreds of watts, so aerodynamics is of critical importance to range to the vast majority of ESers despite so few addressing it in any meaningful way.

 

[Modbikemax]

I have some very nice drop bars which I might try coming into the head wind season. I get a head wing going to work in the morning and then it changes in the afternoon so I get it going home. The guys going the other way obviously enjoy it. I have tried going with the prevailing winds on the weekend and it's quite easy to maintain 40kph on a non ebike, who needs a motor. This wind is what motivated me to try an ebike in the first place and my enthusiasm for aero parts.

 

[speedmd]

I highly recommend these type of center bars if you go to drop bars. Tons of adjustment / hand positions and notably faster / more comfortable while riding in a lower position. You may need a few throttles / buttons and maybe add some cross brake levers to them if you are in traffic areas often.

 

[Kingfish]

I highly recommend these type of center bars if you go to drop bars. Tons of adjustment / hand positions and notably faster / more comfortable while riding in a lower position. You may need a few throttles / buttons and maybe add some cross brake levers to them if you are in traffic areas often.

That is a good idea. I tried something similar on my 2nd trip to California, however they were not suitable for a MtB type frame (and pulling a trailer). I have since switched over to Bar-Ends.

Originally wanted something like this...

Ended up mounting this triangular style for the road trip (not the best shot). I tried to use them a few times, but it was just too unstable for the riding posture.

Eventually I swapped out to Bar-Ends which definitely improved short term relief.

For myself, what is really needed is perhaps 3 or 4 hand & wrist positions to fully alleviate stress during a long ride.

Somewhere there must be a good design that achieves both comfort and aerodynamic
In the tuck, KF

 

[speedmd]

I ride bar ends on the Mtb and my cdale badboy ebike but they suck in comparison. Ok climbing out of the saddle, but not much better at all aero wise. Reach is just not correct and hands out too wide. If you want efficiency, you want you hands out in front of your face or chest. I made a bunch like them a few years back, and all the locals come looking for more during tri season. You can use flat topped bars and double foam tape them where needed, making the forearm pads unnecessary. Super comfy with some weight shared on the forearms.

 

[Marc S.]

Somewhere there must be a good design that achieves both comfort and aerodynamic

Thats what recumbents are for...
Imagine, no pain no matter how far you ride and 30-50% more battery range at the same time.
http://www.bentrideronline.com
http://www.bentrideronline.com/messageboard/index.php

 

[LockH]

Watt he said re "bents". Might think high-speed "bed on wheels" for both "aero" AND comfort.

 

[DrkAngel]

I have been toying with the idea of a transformer type aero solution.

1st would be a proper pedal form seat ...
Then I would add a large comfy motorcycle seat well below and behind the "proper" seat.
Proper seat would be cantilevered so as swing rearward and downward, nestling into a recess in the comfy seat.
This would lower rider into a reasonably aero-advantageous position.

2nd would be a lengthwise straight widthwise curved, possibly 120º, windscreen .
Optimal would extend from front of tire, <12" wide, to ~18" above bars never exceeding shoulder width.
Windscreen design is as simple as possible with minimal crosswind profile. - definitely to be improved.

3rd would be to securely hinge the headset.
Hinged at the top, motored screw would push the bottom of the headset forward.
This would effectively lengthen the wheelbase, lower the frame and swing bars rearward, much advantageous for higher speeds!

4th the bars could hinge, possibly 6" from the ends, possibly 60º, downwards providing a comfortable aerodynamic position

In normal mode the eaBike would be rather typical with the cyclist looking over a rather modest windscreen.
Somewhere above 20mph, a button is pressed and the seat lowers, the front wheel extends the frame lowers and the bars tuck towards the frame.
The eBike rider is now tucked tightly behind a shallow angled windscreen and in position for optimal speed and efficiency.

Oh yeah ...
If the transformer motors sounds are not noticeable enough, it would be only "proper" to add some amplified whirs, clunks and hopefully flashing lights!

Note: picked up a boxload of B&D 12V VSR drills that I need a use for, so ... I do need to use my imagination!

 

[LockH]

"... transformer type aero solution."

Sooo... Something like the "Dray" w/seat added?
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=19001

(Snort, snort. Chuckle, chuckle.)

 

[veloman]

I've been working on a seat that folds up and down. It's the best bang for your buck as far as getting aero and not super hard to engineer. It's best if you don't mind using a noseless saddle too.

 

[LockH]

...if you don't mind using a noseless saddle too.

Dunno. Might depend on comfy backrest, arm rests, number of drink holders, size of desk re laptop... (sorry, long list).


(And how "aero" of course.)






Oh. And my pillow. Fluffed.

 

[Modbikemax]

It pretty obvious what the problem is here. The bike is plenty Aero, its the rider. All arms legs and torso, you are never going to make that lot Aero with a semi trailer full of Lycra.
So why not ditch the rider?
Some RC gear and FPV goggles and cheaper than a set of carbon handle bars. You can go for a ride without getting out of bed! :|

http://hobbyking.com.au/hobbyking/store/__28342__FatShark_PredatorV2_RTF_FPV_Headset_System_w_Camera_and_5_8G_TX.html


Well it's no more stupid than a transformer bike

 

[Tommy L]

For myself, what is really needed is perhaps 3 or 4 hand & wrist positions to fully alleviate stress during a long ride.

Somewhere there must be a good design that achieves both comfort and aerodynamic
In the tuck,

I love my Honda VTX1800C, but longer rides suck. I've even tried RISERS to bring the bars back a little closer to me... helps a bit.

I love my upright Hooligan with my 9C2810 and anywhere between 84 and 133volts But again, only for shorter rides.

Once I got my Catrike 700C I was in WRIST, NECK and BUTT heaven.

I even built a light weight Velo to learn about Aerodynamics. What I learned was most awesome! and disapointing as most vehicles on the road today could be
way better..... lol

Tommy L sends.....

[youtube]rYdnkaAhVtI[/youtube]

 

[John in CR]

Tommy, more info and details please. By "boat heat shrink" are you talking about Dacron sail cloth? Is the PVC + shrink rigid enough for long term use as well as higher speeds?

 

[LockH]

Maybe think "doping"/painting old airplane wings? (Tech "updated" w/fossils and re glues.) Guessing "old style" works as well (sometimes).

(Commonly used today to "tent" boats ashore for winter or live-aboard year-`round.)

 

[docnjoj]

That dogsled pack is cute. My "streamlining" comes with the tadpole recumbent. Lower and reclined compared to a regular bike.
otherDoc

 

[docnjoj]

Maybe think "doping"/painting old airplane wings? (Tech "updated" w/fossils and re glues.) Guessing "old style" works as well (sometimes).

(Commonly used today to "tent" boats ashore for winter or live-aboard year-`round.)

Now I remember why I had such a happy childhood. Model airplane construction! Dope that tissue! Glue that balsa. Mmmmmmm..........
otherDoc

 

[LockH]

Ah, the "good old daze" Bone was ground into powder... Here kitty. Nice kitty.

 

[tahustvedt]

Here's the current iteration of my velomobile. I only make simple 3D models at this stage to visualize the external changes. I'll make a detailed model when I have stopped changing things too much.

It should be tall enough to be more visible in traffic than the common velomobiles, and it also makes entry easier. Boxy so that I don't have to make huge molds.

 

[LockH]

It should be tall enough to be more visible in traffic than the common velomobiles

So, my flags and balloons flying don't "grab"? (In truth, it's the large "zeppelin air ship" usually "gets em".)

Edit: In truth, re "visibility in traffic", that saltpetre/sugar/baking soda "experimental" smoke generator was too... disconcerting for many. Great fun but not recommended.

 

[John in CR]

...that saltpetre/sugar/baking soda "experimental" smoke generator was too... disconcerting for many. Great fun but not recommended.

Where is the full story on that experiment? First the good story, and later the video if you have it.

 

[docnjoj]

Here's the current iteration of my velomobile. I only make simple 3D models at this stage to visualize the external changes. I'll make a detailed model when I have stopped changing things too much.

It should be tall enough to be more visible in traffic than the common velomobiles, and it also makes entry easier. Boxy so that I don't have to make huge molds.

This velo looks very much like the ELF from Organic Transit in Georgia or one of the Carolina's
otherDoc