====After supercapacitor here come the HYPERcapacitor!====

[Link]

Sounds good, but thing is I know My Little Pony tentacle rape porn exists since I've seen it, whereas this HYPErcapacitor runs on hype just like the other miracle batteries that promise 10X energy capacity and/or ridiculous cycle/calender life.

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Huh. Well, what do you know?


In any case, the naming scheme of these things is starting to sound like Ratchet and Clank's weapon upgrade scheme. If they come out with an omega capacitor next, I'm going to ROFL.

 

[paultrafalgar]

The capacitance in the patent is 31 Farads. To achieve such a high energy density the capacitor has a very high breakdown voltage and uses an operating voltage of 3,500 V. In the absence of dielectric saturation the formula for stored energy of a capacitor is 1/2cv2, which gives a total energy storage of 189 MJ or 52 KWHours.

The claimed energy density is 1.0 MJ/kg (existing commercial supercapacitors typically have an energy density of around 0.01 MJ/kg, while lithium ion batteries have an energy density of around 0.54–0.72 MJ/kg).

So this is actually better than a Lithium Battery.

As they say here:
http://www.treehugger.com/files/2006/09/eestor_update.php

"We certainly wonder what happens when we try to get 52 Kwh out of our house into the car in less than five minutes ..."

Which is why this could be good for ebikes rather than cars. If your target range for an ebike was 50 miles then 2 or 3 kilowatts hours is going to be enough. So your battery can be less than one-tenth of the size (That would be 10lb wouldn't it?). Can you get barium titanate on ebay

 

[safe]

Hélio Castroneves Comments About New CART Rules

ABC News: "Hélio Castroneves, you've had a great career in the old gasoline and ethanol days in the CART racing series how do you feel about the new rules requiring ultracapacitors for all cars in the 2015 season?"

Hélio Castroneves: "Well as a sport we started getting a bad image by using gasoline so we switched to ethanol. Then the ethanol started getting a bad reputation because of the farming crisis so when the ultracapacitors came along we realized that for the sake of the sport we needed to switch. I feel really bad about the three deaths that we've already had due to the ultracapacitors breaking open during accidents, but I think the new rules that force the ultracapacitors inside the must protected parts of the frame are a good idea. We are pushing well above 7500 volts now and that's just so much power that if it gets loose you have a meltdown in a fraction of a second. At least the guys never suffered... they never knew what happened."

ABC News: "We will all miss those drivers and it's a sad fact of racing that this sort of thing happens. About how many laps are you getting with the latest ultracapacitors?"

Hélio Castroneves: "We're getting from 15-20 laps right now and there's some testing going on where we hope to push the envelope up to the magic 10K volts number, but for the time being we are satisfied with what we have. Our top speeds are in the 216-218 mph range which is way down from the old days, but we're getting closer every day to being able to equal the old track times."

ABC News: "How do you see things develop in the future?"

Hélio Castroneves: "Like I said, we are trying to break the 10K volt barrier and if we can do that then we've established a level of power that will be hard to beat. Until some new technology comes along to top what we have the racing will be fairly equal. I figure that my career is near it's end anyway so it will be the next generation of drivers that will test the new limits."

 

[Toorbough ULL-Zeveigh]

more fiction, like your circuit designs?

Hélio Castroneves Comments About New CART Rules

ABC News: "Hélio Castroneves, you've had a great career in the old gasoline and ethanol days in the CART racing series how do you feel about the new rules requiring ultracapacitors for all cars in the 2015 season?"

Hélio Castroneves: "Well as a sport we started getting a bad image by using gasoline so we switched to ethanol. Then the ethanol started getting a bad reputation because of the farming crisis so when the ultracapacitors came along we realized that for the sake of the sport we needed to switch. I feel really bad about the three deaths that we've already had due to the ultracapacitors breaking open during accidents, but I think the new rules that force the ultracapacitors inside the must protected parts of the frame are a good idea. We are pushing well above 7500 volts now and that's just so much power that if it gets loose you have a meltdown in a fraction of a second. At least the guys never suffered... they never knew what happened."

ABC News: "We will all miss those drivers and it's a sad fact of racing that this sort of thing happens. About how many laps are you getting with the latest ultracapacitors?"

Hélio Castroneves: "We're getting from 15-20 laps right now and there's some testing going on where we hope to push the envelope up to the magic 10K volts number, but for the time being we are satisfied with what we have. Our top speeds are in the 216-218 mph range which is way down from the old days, but we're getting closer every day to being able to equal the old track times."

ABC News: "How do you see things develop in the future?"

Hélio Castroneves: "Like I said, we are trying to break the 10K volt barrier and if we can do that then we've established a level of power that will be hard to beat. Until some new technology comes along to top what we have the racing will be fairly equal. I figure that my career is near it's end anyway so it will be the next generation of drivers that will test the new limits."

 

[Doctorbass]

Maybe they will need to use something like this

Ceramic insulator

 

[Doctorbass]

maybe you talk about these caps?

Doc

 

[Deepkimchi]

Yeah bud, would be driving to your local CAP station and see something like this..

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3044340947214706940

Yeah reckon ol' absentminded neighbor Bob beat me to the filling station this morning.. :lol:

 

[safe]

Most of the original ultracapacitors were only using a few volts of storage. The EEStor uses 3,500 volts. I think what is needed is something in between like about 500 volt ultracaps for ebikes. Making the voltage more manageable would mean that less protective packaging would be required. Too much voltage means too much protective weight.

I'm really starting to think that this is a better way to go... the whole idea of things that wear out so quickly (batteries) is very annoying...

With the ultracapacitor we could forget about low voltage cutoff's, balancing and other things and turn to safety as the main concern.

 

[Doctorbass]

I really dont like these lethal voltage!!

Many people that like motor, battery..ebike..etc already shorted or touched the 36, 48, 60 , 72 or 100V lead and felt something irritating...but THAT NEED TO NEVER HAPPEN WITH CAPS LIKE THAT.. that can guaranty your death!!

HV is ok but HV with many amp availlable IS DANGEROUS

I just can't imagine thousand of volts with dozens of farad..= 100kA or more in case where that could short due to car accident... MEGAWATT of blast!!!

I can easily imagine people here that post something about their fingers burned...roasted... cooked by plasma flames caused by proximity of them to the caps lead....

Doc

 

[safe]

DANGEROUS

But that's the only way to get significant storage... you need to get up into the higher voltages because a capacitor can only store energy equal to it's surface area. By increasing the voltage you get more energy for the same weight, but the negative is that it's now a more dangerous thing to handle.

My thought is that maybe there could be some "blast runoff" that is somehow designed into the system so that if it is going to let go it does so into a designated runoff area. Maybe some sort of fuse that is forced to blow if a sensor senses a sudden impact? Sort of like airbags, but for the ultracap?

 

[Link]

I can easily imagine people here that post something about their fingers burned...roasted... cooked by plasma flames caused by proximity of them to the caps lead....

Or not posting at all. Ever.

Most of the original ultracapacitors were only using a few volts of storage. The EEStor uses 3,500 volts. I think what is needed is something in between like about 500 volt ultracaps for ebikes. Making the voltage more manageable would mean that less protective packaging would be required. Too much voltage means too much protective weight.

500V won't cut it at all. Squared voltage and all that. They'd be nearly dead by the time they got that low.

My thought is that maybe there could be some "blast runoff" that is somehow designed into the system so that if it is going to let go it does so into a designated runoff area. Maybe some sort of fuse that is forced to blow if a sensor senses a sudden impact? Sort of like airbags, but for the ultracap?[/color]

Not gonna help. Energy is energy.

A fuse like that would likely create a hell of a wire exploder, too. I'd imagine it would fry every bit of electronics within a mile of there, and that's being VERY conservative.

 

[Mathurin]

But those are Maxwell Ultracaps, not EEstor HYPErcaps.

 

[Toorbough ULL-Zeveigh]

good eye Mathurin.
Totally missed that.

 

[mcstar]

The power systems on-board large US Navy ships use 3400VAC systems. They have current capacities in the thousands of amps. These systems are only ever touched and operated by highly trained personel. I worked on some of these systems during my time in the military and I can tell you that you would not want to have such a high energy system in the car right next to you. There were stories (I cannot verify the truth of them) of people who accidentially made contact across 2 of the 3 phases while working on the system and instantly had limbs vaporized! The resultant fireballs ended up killing people nearby (imagine a carbon-fuled plasma fireball). This is not stuff you want to carry around with you. I agree with safe and others in there caution. This is a barbecue waiting to happen. I suppose if you want to put one of these between your legs on your bike and tool around town on it, you're free to do so. We can put up a special thread for "duct-taped hyper-capacictors from China" and if anyone stops posting, we'll know they exploded!

BTW, unless someone can come up with FETS or similar that can switch 3KV, we are going to have very difficult time PWMing this much voltage. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't even think SCR's can switch that high.

 

[Mathurin]

lol, actually the image is hotlinked so I went to the website and read the description. I don't think I could tella Supercap from a HYPErcap if I had to, unless it's written on them. So anyways if the pic turns into a kitten tortured to death, you'll know why.

 

[lawsonuw]

From what I understand of Super capacitors they have a relatively high ESR for a capacitor. Something like 100x of what an electrolytic capacitor of equivalent capacitance would have. (it's also something like 1/10th the size of an electrolytic) This high ESR makes really short pulses (sub millisecond) hard to impossible. I vaguely remember an old data sheet recommending that the super-cap only be used for pulses longer than 100 milliseconds. (so not quite an explosion )

Seems that with a high ESR most of the energy of a short would go into the capacitor, nicely melting it I bet, but hopefully not as spectacular as the electric arc that same amount of energy would create. Still would not be fun sitting on a car sized, ~20KWh, capacitor bank in the process of converting all it's energy to heat. That's just a LOT of heat any way you slice it.

Marty

 

[Link]

From what I understand of Super capacitors they have a relatively high ESR for a capacitor. Something like 100x of what an electrolytic capacitor of equivalent capacitance would have. (it's also something like 1/10th the size of an electrolytic) This high ESR makes really short pulses (sub millisecond) hard to impossible. I vaguely remember an old data sheet recommending that the super-cap only be used for pulses longer than 100 milliseconds. (so not quite an explosion )

Mmm, yes. They do have a high internal resistance for a capacitor (the 2.3V 50F one I have lying around is something like 0.1Ω). But I'm not sure that means that it will explode slowly enough to keep it safe. Since an internal arc only doesn't see the whole resistance of the capacitor, it probably won't be affected much.

Damn, I need a good camera. I'd blow up a 2.5V 1F supercap for you guys (and to see what happens). :?