Alligt & Grin cargobike wheel collaboration

[ebike4healthandfitness]

I just checked their website (because I know what you are saying is bogus) and sure enough they list 17" rims with 2.25" moped strength tires..... not bicycle rims and tires (which would have just been embarrassing).

Right. I'm telling you all the professional users I know have switched over, because 24" BMX parts work better. They're not doing it because it entertains them. They're doing it because they use their trikes to make money, and moto parts are a waste of time and a money loser.

Who is using 24" bmx tires on a six passenger pedi-cab trike? I don't believe this is true.

Everyone I know who uses a Cycles Maximus or one of the many Chinese clones of one uses 24" BMX wheels and tires. There are probably 150 of them altogether in Austin (mostly Chinese clones).

The six passenger cabs use mostly Maxxis Hookworm in 26 x 2.5" or 29 x 2.5", or Origin8 Supercell 26 x 4.0". Lately everything is out of stock and they use whatever's available.

24" freestyle tires are often rated for 110 psi. Moped tires? Not so much.

The only reason I can think for someone wanting to use 24" BMX rims would be to run 48 spokes. But see that has nothing to do with tires and everything to do with servicing the wheels.

A wider tire at lower pressure can (and often does have) lower rolling resistance. Not to mention better ride, better braking and better grip while going through corners.

 

[Chalo]

Everyone I know who uses a Cycles Maximus or one of the many Chinese clones of one uses 24" BMX wheels and tires. There are probably 150 of them altogether in Austin (mostly Chinese clones).

The only reason I can think for someone wanting to use 24" BMX rims would be to run 48 spokes. But see that has nothing to do with tires and everything to do with servicing the wheels.

No. Cycles Maximus hubs (proprietary and wretched) only come in 36 hole as far as I know.

BMX parts are still better for the job. Pedicabbers arrived at that conclusion by trying both moped and BMX parts.

 

[ebike4healthandfitness]

Everyone I know who uses a Cycles Maximus or one of the many Chinese clones of one uses 24" BMX wheels and tires. There are probably 150 of them altogether in Austin (mostly Chinese clones).

The only reason I can think for someone wanting to use 24" BMX rims would be to run 48 spokes. But see that has nothing to do with tires and everything to do with servicing the wheels.

No. Cycles Maximus hubs (proprietary and wretched) only come in 36 hole as far as I know.

BMX parts are still better for the job. Pedicabbers arrived at that conclusion by trying both moped and BMX parts.

If they are building a new wheel it is probably going to be a lot cheaper overall to sell the two stock Cycles Maximus rear wheels....then buy two 48 hole pedi-cab hubs, 96 spoked and two 48 hole 24" BMX rims. This rather than tear down the stock Cycles Maximus wheels to re-use the 36 hole hubs and rebuild with two new 36 hole 24" BMX rims and 72 new spokes.

P.S. You missed my edit in my previous post (i.e. Wider tires at lower pressure can have lower rolling resistance than narrower tires at high pressure .... plus better braking, better cornering, better ride, etc etc etc)

 

[Chalo]

If they are building a new wheel it is probably going to be a lot cheaper overall to sell the two stock Cycles Maximus rear wheels....then buy two 48 hole pedi-cab hubs,

You might think that if you have no experience of these things, but Cycles Maximus hubs are very weird, very special, and only available in 36H. There's no substitute for them unless you remanufacture them from scratch.

There's no need for that, because 36H BMX 24" parts are better for the job than anything in the moped world.

I know of no pedicabbers who use 110 psi. But it's confidence inspiring to know that your tires aren't at or beyond their limit when you inflate them to 60 or 65 psi.

 

[ebike4healthandfitness]

If they are building a new wheel it is probably going to be a lot cheaper overall to sell the two stock Cycles Maximus rear wheels....then buy two 48 hole pedi-cab hubs,

You might think that if you have no experience of these things, but Cycles Maximus hubs are very weird, very special, and only available in 36H. There's no substitute for them unless you remanufacture them from scratch.

There's no need for that, because 36H BMX 24" parts are better for the job than anything in the moped world.

A tubeless motorcycle/scooter/moped tire will always be better than a BMX tire with a tube. Trouble is it is tough to get tubeless moto rims with spokes....and we all know spoked wheels are pound for pound stronger than cast wheels.

Once the breakthrough for tubeless motorcycle/scooter/moped rims with spokes comes anything with tubes will be obsolete.

 

[Chalo]

A tubeless motorcycle/scooter/moped tire will always be better than a BMX tire with a tube.

Only if you don't care about rolling resistance, weight, tire pressure, or ease of servicing.

Professionals do care about these things, so they don't use moto parts even when that's what their trikes came with originally.

 

[ebike4healthandfitness]

A tubeless motorcycle/scooter/moped tire will always be better than a BMX tire with a tube.

Only if you don't care about rolling resistance, weight, tire pressure, or ease of servicing.

Professionals do care about these things, so they don't use moto parts even when that's what their trikes came with originally.

And yet I am sure that the reason they switch to 24" BMX has absolutely nothing to do with the tires for reasons I have already stated.

Most likely they are switching because they don't want the super thick 10 gauge spokes cycles maximus wheels come with.

BMX tires would be nothing to write home about with regard to rolling resistance.

P.S. Tubeless moto tire would be way easier to fix a flat in the tread area compared to a BMX tire.

 

[Chalo]

You have no relevant experience with any of this stuff. Why should anybody regard your speculations as valid?

 

[ebike4healthandfitness]

You have no relevant experience with any of this stuff. Why should anybody regard your speculations as valid?

How many people in the world have actually switched to 24" bmx for pedicabs? I have looked all around the web and cannot find even one reference to this practice. (All sorts of websites selling pedicabs, referencing pedicabs, discussing pedicabs....but none even mention using the lame 24" bmx wheels and tires you keep going on about as if we're actually popular or a breakthrough idea)

I don't believe this bizarre 24" bmx nonsense is being done by anything more than a handful of people at most (which means it is not relevant). And guess what Chalo? I'll bet in one or two years from now (actually even five years from now) it will still remain irrelevant. It is just a bad idea which thankfully wasn't openly adopted by anyone (Maybe just Chalo?)

 

[LewTwo]

lame 24" bmx wheels and tires

What exactly is it that you find so offensive about 24 inch wheels. It a long standing common bicycle tire standard and certainly a better choice that the oddball, single source, unobtainium, 22 inch size the RadCity decided to use on their latest incarnation of the RadWagon (and I note that have NOT used that size on any product since its release).

Those 24 wheels can make for bit longer wheel bases on bikes that still fit within transportation limits but they are much better road handling than those dinky little 16 and 20 inch wheels commonly used on folding bikes.

 

[ebike4healthandfitness]

lame 24" bmx wheels and tires

What exactly is it that you find so offensive about 24 inch wheels. It a long standing common bicycle tire standard and certainly a better choice that the oddball, single source, unobtainium, 22 inch size the RadCity decided to use on their latest incarnation of the RadWagon (and I note that have NOT used that size on any product since its release).

Those 24 wheels can make for bit longer wheel bases on bikes that still fit within transportation limits but they are much better road handling than those dinky little 16 and 20 inch wheels commonly used on folding bikes.

You can get the same outside diameter of 24" by using a 17" moto rim with a 3.5" width tire mounted on it. Both 24" bmx and 3.5" width tire on 17" moto rim would have same wheelbase, but the 3.5" tire on a 17" will have lower rolling resistance, better braking, better traction, better cornering than a 24" bmx.

Then if you were to go tubeless 3.5" tire on a 17" moto rim the gap between it and 24" bmx would widen even further. Unfortunately though (at this time) you would have to use a cast wheel (like the example shown in opening post) which I (and most people) think is step backward as far as the wheel construction goes.

Ultimate tech for 24" outside diameter IMO would be 3.5" tubeless tire mounted on a 17" moto rim with spokes attached to a portion of the rim outside of the part sealed by the tire (as seen on some adventure motorcycles). Now there is no chance for air to escape through spoke holes in the rim like there would be on a tubeless converted 17" spoked moto rim.

 

[LewTwo]

The rims they are showing on their website is sized ETRTO 27-406, which I believe is normal BMX-sized 20 inch bicycle tires. Makes sense for a cargo bicycle.

A bit more detail of the wheel seat ....

I note the absence of "hooks" usually found for "clincher" bicycle tires.

If one Googles "ETRTO 27-406" then the only place you will find it listed is for this particular wheel.

Per wikipedia:
The first number (nominal section width) is essentially the width of the inflated tire (minus any tread).
The second number (nominal rim diameter) is the inner diameter of the tire when it is mounted on the rim.

That first number is around "17C".


The second number does match up with 20 inch bicycle tires.


Of course maybe their Website has a MAJOR typo and it should say "ETRTO 47-406"

 

[Chalo]

ETRTO sizing has been superseded by ISO sizing, which is the same except for the governing body.

The second number is always the bead seat diameter in millimeters. The first number is the outside width of a tire or the inside width of a rim. Optimally the tire width will be about twice the inside rim width, but there's a wide range of workable tire widths for any given rim.

 

[Chalo]

You can get the same outside diameter of 24" by using a 17" moto rim with a 3.5" width tire mounted on it. Both 24" bmx and 3.5" width tire on 17" moto rim would have same wheelbase, but the 3.5" tire on a 17" will have lower rolling resistance,

:lol:

Moto tires are sluggish and several times the weight of bicycle tires. Their rolling resistance isn't even in the same ballpark. You could build a whole bike with the weight difference between a pair of 3.50-17 motorcycle wheels with tires and a pair of 24" BMX wheels with tires.

Why don't you limit your making pronouncements to things you actually know, or have observed firsthand? As for me, I've built two pairs of Cycles Maximus wheels with 24" rims in just the last few weeks. One used Halo SAS rims, and the other used Odyssey Hazard Lite. Both pairs were replacing other 24 inch rims that had been worn out by years of commercial service. The moped rims that originally came on the trikes were ancient history.

These are the pedicab wheels I build most. I've done hundreds of them:
https://precisionpedicab.com/collections/wheels-and-tires/products/super-duty-rear-pedicab-wheels

There are almost no circumstances where moto wheels and tires make sense for a bicycle or other pedal cycle. I've only seen that done here in this forum by people who are building de facto motorcycles on bicycle frames, and on one single owner operated electric pedicab I'm aware of. Oh, and 30 plus years ago there was a weirdo here in Austin who used to put pedals on actual motorcycles after removing the engines. He rode them around at walking speed with sub 1:1 fixed gearing.

 

[spinningmagnets]

Lets take a couple days off to collect our thoughts.

It appears that the dimensions of the Grin and Alligt collaboration wheel are designed for a tubed bicycle tire. Thats good to know.