Alternative Reason For Regen

[AussieJester]

Up until recently i have not considered setting up
regen on my ride. My reason for toying with the idea now though isn't even remotely for the purpose of re-charging the pack and/or for braking purposes. The use of the regen is one of improving ride ability, the regen taking place of the compression you get on a ICE powered bike. Why you ask? well i have noticed lately the 'slack' that needs to be taken up after coasting into a corner and then re-applying power to come out of the corner, the motor needs a second or so to spin the inner part of the freewheel upto speed before it starts applying power to the rear wheel, i guess not a major issue but one that is kinda bugs me. I know one member GWhy has expressed similar thoughts, GWhy is into more technical riding (trials) and this the regen IMO would make the bike HEAPS more rideable in lower speed situations where instantaneous throttle response in relation to power applied to rear wheel is required.

Now..the question is, is this even possible with a RC ESC or will it have a smoky fiery issue with a heap of power being feed back the 'wrong way' into the controller? I believe using the Infineon its all good but no idea about how a RC ESC will handle it?

Alternatively...is there any other way to get instant drive when the power is applied i haven't thought of? Would having the freewheel on the motor end opposed to on the rear wheel make a difference at all? I currently run ENO on my rear hub if i change this to a fixed mount and put the freewheel on the motor end would the 'wind up delay' be reduced or be the same?
I can't see how it would be any different but im a lil dense with these more technical things haha

Thoughts?

KiM

 

[gwhy!]

The freewheeling effect is a major problem for the sort of riding that I do and is a very steep learning curve to take this into account and a fixed wheel will improve things a bunch ( which I intend to do ). I think a fixed wheel will be fine with a rs esc as you will not be using any sort of regen ( but the motor will always be rotating ). Having the freewheel on the smallest sprocket in the system will help alot in making the problem go away.

 

[liveforphysics]

I totally feel you on this. I hate the "THUNK" when my sprocket spins up and the freewheel dogs grab when I want to accelerate after coasting. I think the super lightweight lexan sprockets reduce this effect by quite a bit, but Miles (as usual) had an even more clever idea.

Don't quote me on remembering everything perfectly here, but it was some hub from the 1980s for the flatland/freestyle bike guys, and it's rear hub was on some sort of slider ring with dogs on it, so the hub could freewheel normally when you want, or mesh the dogs together, and it's locked solid. I can't remember if it was cable actuated or not, but I think they had a way to swtich on-the-fly between locked/freewheeling.

 

[AussieJester]

Well the first thing for me to try then will be grabbing an ENO 18tooth for the output of the reduction drive and solid mounting my rear sprocket. Failing this being satisfactory i can quite simply replace the eno with a fixed sprocket as i have two custom adapters made on mates lathe ready to weld sprockets too...

The hub Miles mentioned sounds tricky Luke i wonder if it
is upto the punishment of lecky setup?

Cheers for unput fellas...

KiM

 

[TylerDurden]

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=12449&p=185306&#p185306

 

[TylerDurden]

in-situ:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/download/file.php?id=12488

 

[recumpence]

Kim,

I agree with you on the annoyance of the freewheel "Lag". That is one major reason I have always stuck with a freewheel on the drive system ouput shaft rather than the rear wheel. It spins faster and will take up that slack so fast you do not even notice any delay at all.

The ESC may struggle with the back feed depending on how big the feed. I was told it is best to ramp the throttle down in about a 1 second rate from full to 0 throttle to reduce that back feed spike on my 15k RPM motors because that 0 throttle signal with high back emf could blow a controller. Not exactly sure the reasons for it, though.

Anyway, for lower motor RPM, this may not be an issue?

I hope I have not totally confused you on this.

Matt

 

[AussieJester]

I hope I have not totally confused you on this.

Matt

Nope not at all Matt ...thankfully you had the foresight to send me out one of your special freewheel adapters for the reduction drive :lol: So fitting an ENO to the output of the drive is as easy as ordering the freewheel now. All i need to find/fab is a screw on adapter for the freewheel. i thought i could use an old bottom bracket (end of it with the thread) and some metal and aluminium plate to knock up a adapter. One of my ghetto one use MDF jigs will ensure its very accurate... Alternatively do you make one for the right hand side of the hub Matt? I know you do one for the disk brake side. I have also PMed the Thudster to see if he can knock one up if you haven't got them Matt. Worse case scenario ill make one myself but would prefer full aluminium adapter rather than a steel/ali that i am able to make.

Thanks Matt

KiM

 

[flyinmonkie]

Kim,

There has been some discussion of using one way bearings. If they can take the power and you can make the fit a hub and a sprocket they could work. I have experience with them and have a lot of faith in them. You have to get good quality German ones though, not cheap Chinese ones. They have no slack and in the applications I have used them, the force is put on them fairly instantly.

Or, we all may have to learn how to ride all over. I guess this is where a clutch comes in handy. It's kind of like starting a V8 at full throttle hooked directly to the rear diff while rolling.

Clay

 

[Fligh High]

Just something I have been thinking about the last 10 minutes , don't now if it works...

If just for solving the "slack" problem , so not braking on the motor or regen, it could be solved with a very simple cheap add-on microcontroller that would count revs/speed and gives a certain amount of voltage on your throttle-wires to the controller to keep your E-motor spinning . But not so much that it would actually generate power to the wheel if you now what I mean Just something that will push only so slightly "against" the "slack" (rev-difference).This will also eliminate the problems sensor-less controllers have with quick up-revving from zero rpm .

It would switch off under a certain rpm for standstill and is simply switched off through a switch near your thumb when you don't need it so it won't waste power.

It looks possible !