Alternatives to Alibabi-Express for buying QS Motors and controllers, etc..

[DingusMcGee]

Welcome to Deception and Trickery at Alibabi

Transactions with the Alibabi website(s) is not explicitly clear. They have dialogue boxes with only “yes” choices. On the last order I found they still have & use my credit card # on file with them despite I have never confirmed to them to save the number.

They use 16 digit transaction numbers that have the same first 3 digits and the same last 3 digits. This tactic can make double sales of the same item less noticed as you may think you are confirming an original order if you do not check all the digits.

It seems and likely is impossible on the website to cancel an unwanted double purchase — no dialogue boxes — there is no way to cancel. Except your good credit card company will hear both sides.


Their websites flood you with useless ads making meaningful navigation difficult and delayed.

My substantiated bitches could go on but here is ONE recommended alternative for QS products: Newdoon Ebikes on eBay.

for their products See: https://www.ebay.com/sch/newdoon2022/m.html?ssPageName=

I have found Newdoon Ebikes to carry on meaningful text dialogue and promptly get your order on the way. You speak with a living person agent not a dialog robot.

 

[Santacruz]

You can always contact and order direct from QSmotor themselves.
I have done for the last 5 years and always had top service.
Contact and advice by email when needed.
I also know that I am not getting fake goods, which is always possible through other channels.

 

[DingusMcGee]

Santacruz,

Thanks for finding out and informing us one can buy QSmotors directly from QSMotors. I did know Robert Chen of QSMotors would sell me motor cogs directly.

After resolving the double sell of an item from Alibabi-Ex, it seems part of the problems with them is they can be quite slow updating of status changes on your homepage purchases info.

e.g. after placing an order no changed appeared in the order tab output for about 2hrs — no order confirmation.

Was it a busy selling hour for Alibabi-Ex or do they have insufficient computing power? An eBay a purchase shows up in the purchased items tab “instantly”.

So wait for status change? Or buy directly from QSmotors and maybe save some $$$$?

 

[amberwolf]

Even if it doesn't save you money to buy direct, it does guarantee you will get an actual QSMotors product (doesn't guarantee you will get the one you order, because that always depends on humans doing their jobs correctly, and being able to effectively communicate with each other, and that can be difficult even when everyone involved natively speaks the same language...).

FWIW, of the "typical" hubmotors/etc used in builds here on ES, the QSMotors have been the best-built of the brands you can still buy new. The only ones I've personally had that were built any better are the old UltraMotors from A2B and Stromer bikes; IIRC TDCM now owns the Ultramotors and may still manufacture the basic motor the same way--they are the *only* ones with good hard steel for axles (even the QSMotors don't seem to have any better axle metal than the typical cheap motors...but the Ultramotor axles are hard enough to cut into and gouge threads into the thick clamping dropouts I built on SB Cruiser, that no other motor was able to do that to even with much more torque--the other axles would just break).

 

[DingusMcGee]

Amberwolf,

You say, “QSMotors don't seem to have any better axle metal than the typical cheap motors”

I beg to differ based upon taping threads into the axle ends on the Cyclone and QS motors for installing 1/4” x 18 L9 Allen bolts to hold the motor cog to the axle tightly.

See my post of this work done on QS motors 2000 and 3000:

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=113974&start=25#p1706952

These QS mid-drive motors had very hard steel axles compared to Cyclone motors. Note the use of carbide tools to get the job done.

So far, no broken axles on these motors but yes for broken BB square-drive axles.

 

[amberwolf]

You're probably right about their non-hub motors; I haven't tested the QS axles directly, and have no experience with their non-hub motor shafts (which are not axles, and not what I'm referring to), but I have a QS205 (hubmotor) here with shorn off axle ends (IIRC, from shortcircuit911, but would have to check that), same apparent failure mode as the MXUS 450x axle failures I've had personally (which twisted off like that in the exact same dropouts that the Ultramotor axle later carved up instead, with no damage to the UM axle--I had to build a new differently-clamping dropout to secure the UM axle).

I also have a QS205 core with no axle installed, sent to me with a couple of new axles (I don't recall why the axle was removed, if it was broken and being replaced, or what).

I do still think the QS stuff is better made than the rest of them...I just don't think their axles are better material.

 

[Santacruz]

The contact I have used at QSMOTORS

Harry Zhou
Sales Director
QS MOTOR LTD

But, I have not had anything from them since Feb 2021 (Not needed as everything has been reliable), so I don't know if Harry is still there.
But when I made orders, I would specify what I wanted and they confirmed they would build to suit.
Lead time was 30 days for order build and about 5 days shipping to Europe and as far as I can remember, my orders were about that time or less.
I think what I liked the most, was they would still talk to you and give advice after you paid for your order. Something that doesn't happen (or vary rarely) with the big markets like aliexpress or alibaba.
When I had a question (via email), I don't think I had to wait anymore than 2 days max for an answer.

As for the axles strength. On the QS205 and the QS273 I have never had a problem. They seem plenty strong enough and I have in the past, put a fair bit of power through them and use regen braking.

 

[DogDipstick]

I either try to message Robert Chen ( not reliable) or just buy one off Amazon.

I have bought four off Amazon, they all show in a timely manner and are genuine.

The axle? is tough ? I s weak?

See my post of this work done on QS motors 2000 and 3000:

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=113974&start=25#p1706952

These QS mid-drive motors had very hard steel axles

Those things are strong cause those little sprockets ( drive sprocket on mc) is HARD and STRONG as can be! You cannot drill a sprocket. you cannot machine a sprocket without anealing and re heat treating. the shaft MUST be super hard or else it would crumple under the hardness of all of todays modern motorcycle sprocket hardness standards. You know that. You ground them with carbide.. and I bet that lathe wasnt happy while it did it.

A 13 T #410 Motor Cog is Rendered from a #428 Cog

IMG_1406.jpg

IMG_1409.jpg

Thats insane. That is the most machined down, sprocket, that was cut, not ground, I have ever seen in my life. Carbide, man. I see you like carbide. I probally got a thousand. A thousand pounds of carbide mills, drills, reams, threadmills, carbide drills and spot drills, roughing and finishing, balls, all rad. and v bit, tbn, the whole 9 yards. Solid boring bars and ten thousand carbide inserts or more. More than I will ever use in my life. ... but the one thing I dont have is carbide taps. They are rare and expensive. If you are ever looking for cheap carbide, let me know, I probally have it for 1/10th of retail price and 2x the price of scrap carbide. Guaranteed US made quality... Garr, usCarbide, etc .Just ask.


Hub motor? Different. Just sitting there, no tork on it. Can be made weaker. A Drivesprocket for a MC MUST be VERY hard to survive the revolutions of the chain around the sprocket pair and hunting configurations of the rotational periods the assembly will see... ( rpm) ( same toof same link situations / rpm).. . or else.
I bent mine ( my hub motor axle). Slightly. In a hard crash. 40-50mph, bike slid 30-40 yards. Bent the whole bike, but the axle twisted a little on the strong steel dropouts. Spun out the back tire at the top of a hill. Ground everything on one side of the bike down... Roadrashed. Trying to gain traction in the rain. Medium rain. I might pull the axle next time I have a chance and bend it back to the correct TIR... using a press and blocks.

Pull it out and put it on the table. Vee block it. Run the indicator. Get a concrete repeatability in the metrology. I am thinking about using my optical table for this, but I would have to clear out the garage to get to it. I would have to dig it out in the cold,.. Bah. Get that number.

The CroMo motor axle is identical and probally 10x stronger.

I can take the measurements of the Cro Mo axle and make one for you, if you like, heat treated tool steel, your choice of hardness. Cost would be 200$ and a promise of free replacement if you can bend it. Both axles are identical ( and or copies of each other) except for one? race surface. The Cromo bearings are bigger too .

 

[DogDipstick]

Their websites flood you with useless ads making meaningful navigation difficult and delayed.

My substantiated bitches could go on but here is ONE recommended alternative for QS products: Newdoon Ebikes on eBay.

for their products See: https://www.ebay.com/sch/newdoon2022/m.html?ssPageName=

.... but... those are not real QS motors...

Newdoon ebikes on eBay? Bahahahahahahahah DO not BUY from THERE. New guy in town with a whooppiinngg 29 feedback.. and the year he started eBay in his name ( "22")? If you notice, he does not show any serial numbers in teh listings pictures, that you see, the motor you get... , phase line diameters, and the like, that would prove it a junk clone, not a real genuine QS ( with the QS authenticity sticker).


I cannot believe how fake this is. Do you see anylisting of a " 5kW QSMOTOR 205" on the QS site? BAHAHA

https://www.ebay.com/itm/224903644061?hash=item345d4d439d:g:mCYAAOSw1yJiNEjc

They are the junk phake clone wanna bee QS motors. Look at this serial. Clearly says NBP ( NBPower) and this is a JUNK FAKE QS205. NOT a authentic QS!!!!! MY QS 205 50Hs that I have bought have all been over 460$ shipped... ( direct from QS too: so you know this little guy selling the fake motors is marking them up hell lots... probally makes 100$ off each motor.. plus shipping.. but still cheaper than a real QS from QS... bahahaha each fake motor) BAHAHAH.





Phase lines like a 1000w QS motor... (3mm^2)( vs the 10mm^ of the real QSMOTOR) ( on the right)( clone on the left)...Like this and all.

LOL


LOLx2

Here is a real " 3000w QS motor" vs a "NBPOWA 5kW hub"... Bahahah you buying clones. Thinking they are real. FYI .,

I do have the real serials available for this picture and I do have axce4ss to the real QS motor serial decoder and Julian date recording system... if you wanna go farther into this.. If you still think those " NBP" hubs are real " QSMotors"... Lol...

THIS is a REAL 3kW ( 20kW capable) QS205 phase line set, on the right, vs a NBP 5kW ( 5kW capable) hub. On the left.
..........BOTH hubs are sitting in my garage right now.
.................. Thinking you bought a real QSMOTOR hub.. but.... getting an underwhelming " NB Power" hub motor... would quite disappointing.

 

[DingusMcGee]

Dogdipstick,

I have carried on disputes on eBay and have won all of them. If one’s purchase from Newdoon is not genuine, they can open a dispute in eBay. They will need some form of substantiated evidence for concluding they received a counterfeit item which is far more than your unsupported claim offered about what kind of goods Newdoon sells.

Can you get this kind of resolution in dealings with Alibabi?

 

[DogDipstick]

Dogdipstick,
They will need some form of substantiated evidence for concluding they received a counterfeit item which is far more than your unsupported claim offered about what kind of goods Newdoon sells.

I buy from Amazon, with good reciprocity. I do not use alibabaexpress or whatever it is .


I have these motor in hand, in my garage, with the stamped numbers on them.

My claim is well supported. I can provide evidence.. in hopes some other poor ebiker does not get taken by these junk clone motors.

Any hub labeled " NBP" is not a " QSMOTOR". Period.

I have brand new 2020 through 2021 QSMOTOR hubs, in my garage, and brand new, NBP hubs, in my garage, right now. They are not the same. One is shaved down in the durability department, power handling department, and other output departments, there may be. ONe is a junk clone. Guess which it is. .. Hint.. its the one with teh "NBP" in the serial.

I just took a pic of both hub phase wires. Evidence . You can see that for yourself. Clear as day. In Hi-Resolution.

Eh?

Unsubstantiated you say?

Lol.

 

[DingusMcGee]

Dogdipstick,

Maybe you could read my wording more carefully? You have not established whether Newdoon sells fakes was my contention. Proceed on establishing that Newdoon sells fakes.

 

[gobi]

QS mentions that only items purchased from them are eligible for warranty.

Thanks DogDipStick,
I wondered if those are fake QS hubs, phew, you saved me few $$$.

Op,
QS Motor off Aliexpress or QS directly is the best option,
Please ASK them for alternate shipping option, they have DHL as default and it is the MOST expensive option.
Also, regardless of shipping methods, pls have vendor confirm that they include shipping insurance at FULL value and/or ensure your CC has purchase protection.

 

[DogDipstick]

Dogdipstick,

Maybe you could read my wording more carefully? You have not established whether Newdoon sells fakes was my contention. Proceed on establishing that Newdoon sells fakes.

Show a fake motor in the listing and labeled the listing as " QSMOTOR"...

All of them are on the site. Fake NBP motors posing as QS motors.

If you receive the motor in the pic, and you were expecting a real QS motor, you gott ripped off and bought a clone. A fake. A underwhelming motor posing as a QS motor.

If you receive the motor as pictured in the listing.

THIS is not a real QSMOTOR.

 

[DogDipstick]

QS mentions that if item purchased from them are eligible for warranty.

Thanks DogDipStick,
I wondered if those are fake QS hubs, phew, you saved me few $$$.

There is a HUGE difference in the quality of the motors in question. DO NOT BUY A NBP hub if you want a real QSMOTOR. I have both here, and the "NBP 5kW" is very very underwhelming... I am very scared I am going to smoke it.

 

[gobi]

Dogdipstick,

I have carried on disputes on eBay and have won all of them. If one’s purchase from Newdoon is not genuine, they can open a dispute in eBay. They will need some form of substantiated evidence for concluding they received a counterfeit item which is far more than your unsupported claim offered about what kind of goods Newdoon sells.

Can you get this kind of resolution in dealings with Alibabi?

Yes, I pay with me my CC that has no surcharge for foreign currency but includes purchase protection, Then if item received is damaged or does not match item advertised/broken etc,
1. Email seller for resolution - return/refund
2. If seller refuses, contact CC.

Be very careful and read terms, nearly ALL of them have you paying return shipping.

 

[DingusMcGee]

Dogdipstick,

Does one get exactly what a picture shows when ordering? Certainly pictures offer clues (like gossip) but the proof is what you got compared to what is authentic. You need two real items — not pictures.


In some fashion you have alerted me and the Endless group that Newdoon maybe selling fakes. But no real evidence yet.

 

[DogDipstick]

Dogdipstick,


5BABCF6F-CA11-44AB-94FE-D48FC7AAE8E0.jpeg

That looks ( your mid drive one in your pic...) like a real QS motor.. Todays laser engraving. The Registered TM that all my friends have been buying recently too... Thats the mid. I am talking specifically bout the hubs... that show a pic of a NBP hub. So I am just saying the hubs are not QS MOToR hubs... I did not look at the mid drive systems.

Why would you not sho the real QS hub in the pic? Why show a known clone? If you are selling real QSMOTORs?

Also.. They show a " 5kW QS 205 50H"... and QS DOES NOT MAKE THAT MOTOR AT ALL!!! NOPE! MOST the 205 QS goes up to is 3kW with spokes !?!?!?!?!?! HOW DO THEY HAVE A "qsmotor" that does not exists according to the QS website ? ! ? ! ?

... but.... NBP DOES make a " 5kW"... and its junk ...and its in the pic... and its puny... and compared to a real QSMOTOR... its junk.. and I bet that is what you would get if you bought that listing.

QS serial number system is buried in the forum here. SOmewhere. I will find it.

I am also friends with Vito on Facebook. I could ask him too.

 

[gobi]

I think we should insist the seller puts on the ad the actual picture of the item being sold.

Some sellers have 1 real QS item and other clone and tries to sell all of them as real QS motor items.

I wish QS sold on amazon more items, we could saved a bunch on shipping.
If I had the space/time I would have gone for a QS dealership outta my garage 8)

 

[DogDipstick]

This is what I have been told the serial should be. This serial/production date works with all the motors I have purchased from Amazon. They all came with a " QS Genuine authenticity sticker" too.

QS(±WP)+Voltage(_ _ V/_ _ _ V)+Wattage(_ _ _W/_ _ _ _ W/_ _ _ _ _W)+Production Date(Y Y M M D D)+Speed(RPM/10)(_ _)+Serial Number(_ _ _ _)

Here is the direct quote from Vito about the authenticity of QS motors and the proliferation of the clones.
Posted here on the forum.

QS Motor Electric In Wheel Hub Motor List
Official Web: http://www.cnqsmotor.com/en/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/cnqsmotor/

There are many store sale QS Motor and Electric Motor Kits on aliexpress, I would like to make it more clearly for better understanding.
SiAECOSYS (SIA in short) is the subsidiary company of QSMOTOR, who focus on electric motor & motor kits as electic powertrain of electric 2/3/4 wheelers, for internantional market.

Vito, Judy, Tessio, Jasmine in 1st sales team,
Store name: SIA Electric Powertrain Store
https://siaecosys.aliexpress.com/store/5881618

Damon, Vincent in 2nd sales team,
Store name: QS Motor Factory Store
https://qsmotorfactory.aliexpress.com/store/1389549…
Store name: SiAECOSYS Store
https://www.aliexpress.com/store/5079180…

Carrie, Summer in 3rd sales team.
Store name: QS Electric Drive Store
https://qs-motordrive.aliexpress.com/store/4393030…
Store name: SIA Tech Store
https://siatech.aliexpress.com/store/5616201…

Others are not powered by SIA, please noted.
Welcome to visit our web on aliexpress, especially SIA Electric Powertrain Store, follow us on aliexpress for lastest news. ; )


No QS Motor, No Super EVs!
Thanks and best regards,
QS Motor- Vito Ho

 

[tomjasz]

Thanks for the updates on clones. Looking at the QSmotor page it appears to read that QS will custom label a motor for a reseller or eBike builder.
Mind you I'm not discounting your explanation. But are we certain there is no one having motors made by QS with their label?

I'll go the Amazon route or direct, but I'm still curious.

 

[DingusMcGee]

Tomjasz,

Great find about the relabeling, that makes for a little more confusion as to how to navigate for genuine QSMOTOR.

 

[DogDipstick]

Thanks for the updates on clones. Looking at the QSmotor page it appears to read that

What website is that? I thought the QS motor site was black.

Is it this site? Cause this is the real QS motor site, could you show me where it says that?>

http://www.cnqsmotor.com/en/

Tomjasz,

Great find about the relabeling, that makes for a little more confusion as to how to navigate for genuine QSMOTOR.

... not if that is not the real one and only QS motor site... but I dont think it is? Perhaps we can get a reference.

IF it came from this site : It is not the QS motor site. hence would make sense, a reseller of the motors saying they will give out whatever is in stock... relabeled... https://www.qsmotor.com/

This site is not SIA... ad is not the real QS motor I am taking about. That is just a reseller.

This is... the real one.
http://www.cnqsmotor.com/en/

I just showed you what Vito had to say about the other sites. Clear as day.

 

[amberwolf]

Hub motor? Different. Just sitting there, no tork on it.

Many things I agree with you on, but this statement I find to be completely untrue for all of these hubmotors, including every QSMotors "ebike" or "motorcycle" hubmotor I have seen so far, with no integral torque arm mounts (such as the GMAC from Grin or Grin All Axle hubmotor have): the axle flats have to transmit *all* of the motor torque into the frame (or other torque transfer device that then transmits it to the frame), so the axle has to handle *all* of the motor torque. If this isn't what you meant, could you clarify your statement?

(this doesn't apply to any hubmotor not transmitting the motor torque via the axle this way, but there are very few of those at this time, and doesn't apply to non-hubmotors).

This is why not having a good hard axle (not just at it's surface) is a problem in at least some cases, as the shear forces (I think, dont' know all the terminology that well) at the point where the flatted axle portion meets the round axle shoulder portion tend to twist that smaller-cross-section portion right off the shoulder (this is what has happened to most of the broken-axle motors I have here, including the QS205 noted earlier). Sometimes the axle doesn't shear thru at that point, but instead is rotated within the torque transfer device of whatever type, cutting thru / deforming the axle along the width / thickness of that device, if the device is sufficiently harder metal than the axle.

The Ultramotor axle is so hard that the opposite happens, where the axle carves thru the torque transfer device, cutting threads into it, using "only" a peak of about four to five times the power level they were labelled for (presumably continous, though no specific torque numbers are provided from them or tested by me.

There are of course other problems with flatted-axle design, such as the stress riser of a sharp transition from flatted area to shoulder, that exacerbate this failure mode, but having had a number of failures of this type, on the softer axles of various brands and models, and none on two different harder axles on two UMs,

 

[DingusMcGee]

Dipstick,

Good insight as how motor imposters may be trying to fool us..