And then there were three.......

[recumpence]

There are numerous reasons I decided on the head tube system you see here.

#1 I can adjust front end hight easily.
#2 I can change head tube length.
#3 It allows had tube angle change by way of wedge shape shims under the clamps.
#4 It eliminated the need for head tube reaming after welding.

Matt

 

[Leebolectric]

Clever, is there a pic detailing that attachment?
In the pics the "gas tank" blocks the view.

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/download/file.php?id=182456&mode=view

Looks like the faceplates are removed...so you have holes drilled in the front of the frame box that bolt right up? neatO!

 

[recumpence]

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/download/file.php?id=154424
This is from the initial bike build.


Here is a link to the build thread of the entire bike.
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=65549

Matt

 

[recumpence]

I have been out riding the bike since the weather had eased up (it is 47 degrees out).

Honestly, this thing is WAAYYYY too powerful. I mean, Good Lord, the torque is freaking uncontrollable. 45 mph gearing on this system is way too low for the torque it puts out. It needs to be geared for 60mph,at least, (I think) in order to tame the explosive hit. I have been messing with the CA and that has helped alot. But, I think I still have some programming to do. The torque comes on INSANELY hard! With all my weight on the bars, it just jumps and wheelies violently. Now, with the amp switch set to low (6kw), it is nice and tame and smooth. But, on high it is freakish. I cannot get it to pull more than 510 amps. It just launches HARD at 500 amps. The system is capable of well over 800 amps. I want to gear it up and see what happens. I think the CA struggles to regulate smoothly from innitial throttle input on a system with this much power. It does regulate, but, there is a harshness to the low speed throttle input that is difficult to manage. I will continue making program changes to the CA in an effort to tame it. Much of this will probably dampen out with taller gearing. Also, I think taller gearing will increase efficiency as well. Right now it runs about 50wh per mile at 25mph cruising. That number should be more like 35 to 40wh per mile. With taller gearing, the efficiency may improve due to less motor RPM per MPH of running.

Oh, one other point. If ridden like a madman, launching out of every corner, wheely-ing all the time and running full throttle everywhere, the WH per mile is 85. That may sound high. But, for a system with this much power, that is actually really low. This bike is definately setup for hard running. It is running modestly that I need to work on now.

The system is very mellow in sound and pleasing to the ear. Admittedly, I like the high pitch sound of the 5mm pitch belt. But, this is much more pleasing to listen to on extended rides.

Matt

 

[macribs]

Looking forward to some videos. Crazy stuff like this just beggs for vids.

Keep up the insanity Matt. And I mean that in the nicest way

 

[Byte]

60 mph, that sounds awesome, a little scary though on a bicycle :lol:

Question Matt, do you use extra capacitors on the 160HV ESCs? I just saw this pic, but can't see any extra caps over there is that right?

 

[Nathan]

What is the total weight of the bike now ?

i think that's one of the problems with lots of smaller motors vs 1 big one, efficiency, as you have 3 motors with 6 bearings just for the motor shafts... Then add the gear reduction stages and losses, so the power to weight maybe good but not as good as one big motor for efficiency?

 

[recumpence]

60 mph, that sounds awesome, a little scary though on a bicycle :lol:

Question Matt, do you use extra capacitors on the 160HV ESCs? I just saw this pic, but can't see any extra caps over there is that right?

I have not used extra caps for years. If the battery system and wiring is properly speced, no added caps are needed.

Matt

 

[recumpence]

What is the total weight of the bike now ?

i think that's one of the problems with lots of smaller motors vs 1 big one, efficiency, as you have 3 motors with 6 bearings just for the motor shafts... Then add the gear reduction stages and losses, so the power to weight maybe good but not as good as one big motor for efficiency?

It depends. The efficiency is still pretty comperable to a large motor. The main issue is power density, though. The power per pound is 40% better with this system than a single Agni motor that has the same power.

The bike weighs 99 pounds as it sits.

Matt

 

[macribs]

Did you manage to tame the devil Matt? How was it to ride @30kw? What did you end up using as gearing for top speed? Did higher gear help with efficiencies?

Still waiting for video of this monster

 

[recumpence]

No matter how tall I gear it, the wheelies are crazy! Once I finish testing (when the weather becomes better) I may go down to a single motor geared for 35mph. This would give me plenty of wheelie power shutout the insane high speed with far better efficiency. That is the direction I am leaning toward right now. This thing is just insane on a whole new level.

Matt

 

[macribs]

What about stretching the wheelbase a little? Could also do a motoseat so you can easily slide forward when accelerating. Combined it should help a lot. And when you gear it past 60 mph tops speed the longer wheelbase will do wonders for stability in high speed as well. Just a thought. Should be easy to stretch the swingarm like 4 inches.

Did your client get his triple drive yet?

 

[recumpence]

What about stretching the wheelbase a little? Could also do a motoseat so you can easily slide forward when accelerating. Combined it should help a lot. And when you gear it past 60 mph tops speed the longer wheelbase will do wonders for stability in high speed as well. Just a thought. Should be easy to stretch the swingarm like 4 inches.

Did your client get his triple drive yet?

Sorry for the delay responding......

Wheelbase stretching is a possibility. That, however, adds load to the driveline. That [could possibly] add more stress on the driveline than it can handle. It would look strange, too.

The other issue is efficiency. In real world riding, I am using up around 1.25 ah per mile with three motors just in normal cruising. That is more than twice the energy used with a single motor cruising at the same speed. So, I need to figure out if I want range, or crazy power.

Oh, yes, the client has received his triple motor drive unit. He is working on his build as we speak.

Matt

So, what would you guys do, run HUGE power with poor range, or "Fun" power with more than twice the range?

 

[macribs]

Well it seems you could do the stretching both in the front and in the back, the way you made that "headtube" it should be easy to add an inch or so in length up front. And if you do a couple of inches in the back, like one up front on the swing arm and another one on the drop outs it should all come together nicely. 3 inches extra wheel base will mean a lot more control, less wheelie prone and more stable at high speed.

Hm is there an in between choice? If 3 motors give you problems why not drop one motor and run 2 motors?
To make the drive itself slimmer and avoid some belt and pulleys what if you place two motors on one axle and run the belt pulley from that axle to first reduction? With two motors you are still able to run the slip clutch, yes? So two motors should be more kind both to ESC's and drive train.

I really think you nice looking frame deserves a lot of power.

 

[liveforphysics]

If you're looking for recommendations for what to do next with it, I would grow the swing-arm until you can use all the power, then take it to a dragstrip and see what she turns.

Then try hillclimbs and kart track racing!

 

[Bruno (YouTube)]

Yes, I am really excited to get the triple monstor in action... I have been looking some frame options.. 10% chances that I will be making a bike and 90% chances that it will be on a recumbent trike... I really want to make something like Matt's Yellow Trike http://davincidrives.com/2014/10/23/5-mph-monster-yellow-trike/ ...but I want a full suspension frame with a much wider rear tire for more grip. I am not sure if I would go for a 4 inch tire with 100mm wide rim and a very looooooooooong swing arm like these ones here https://www.flickr.com/photos/76290936@N02/sets/72157629621798529/show/ or fit a small car tire (more surface, more grip). As much as I want to get a long swingarm and extra wide tires... too much grip/torque may destroy the whole thing =[

I have been talking and meeting with a lot of recumbent frame builders but once I mention how much POWEEEEEER I am putting through the frame they are all kinda "scared" of building something... I may be talking to the wrong guys.. they talk about cyclist speeds... I talk about flying... I see that I will have to build everything myself in my garage.. I am sure I will have so much fun. My mind is exploding with ideas, I have to pick something and put it in action ASAP! I know there will be a lot of tuning and modifications that I will only realise when I get this thing running...
I am meeting up with some "racing dudes" next week and see if they want to help me with this insane project.. =]

*I tested the fastest human powered trike two days ago and I couldn't believe how much power and speed I could get using my own legs... they did 119kmh pedaling on flat (no motor, just legs) but the official record ended up at 117kmh. I am trying to convince these guys to put this motor in one of their trikes and see what happens...

 

[recumpence]

Hey Guys,

I am considering selling this bike to fund the next toy.

$9,000 with a single motor or $10,500 with three motors.

Matt