Any reason to not go Straight for a 14s, 52v pack for my first battery?

[eMark]

Someone is asking me about them right now in Pm. My opinions. Advice. I know it is a 2p, in that ad, for that price... and... Yea I just remark, on how, next week, it will be " 1600A" in big red numbers plastered across the face of the website.... and in the small print... it will say " (4p)"

The single 8amp cell listed by BH has same spec "Recommend Continuous Discharge Rate 200A" ... https://batteryhookup.com/products/spim08hp-3-7v-8ah-200a-lithium-ion-w-cell-holder?pr_prod_strat=copurchase&pr_rec_id=4cafd1c48&pr_rec_pid=4863652692100&pr_ref_pid=5823231361186&pr_seq=uniform ... this link to that cell was posted under the photo of the electric pit bike ("14s1p 8Ah").

BH is in no way exaggerating the original datasheet as much as DDs exaggeration. Perhaps how DD chose to answer that ONE QUESTION ?? There are even a few youtube builds using similar salvaged pouch cells.

Will BH say that their cells are no longer Grade A - NO - they figure any DIYer that's done their due diligence knows that the salvaged cells listed by BH are by and large Grade B.

Nothing wrong with that as long as the buyer realizes capacity between salvaged cells will vary so pre-testing is mandatory. Will i ever buy cells from BH ... doubtful ... other than as an experimental learning experience (if nothing else to do) that i don't envison at this time.

My reason for mentioning "200A" was as much in jest (see what reaction). These cells are no longer Grade A ... so chances are that the "RCDR" is closer to 100A. That's why the price seems so reasonable. In other words pre-testing is mandatory as some of the cells may not be fit for the task. However, that in NO WAY should be construed as belittling common sense DIYers and their builds using salvaged cells that still have a life to give/live (e.g. Chalo) :thumb:

Get out that old Extech thermocouple datalogger, Old man. I guess it is not very profitable to do this. Load testing. For a hobbyist market.

YES! BHs salvaged cells are not only for the serious DIY builder, but also for a hobby build. Always will be a few "hobbyists" who are an easy mark ... perhaps giving Battery Hookup what some may view as an unfair rap.

I gotta shut up now cause I have kinda been bribed NOT to talk trash on these cells. WhoopTee.

As P. T. Barnum once said ... “Advertising is like learning - a little is a dangerous thing.”

That doesn't mean those cells don't have a suitable use for the right application as shown in some of BHs build projects ... https://batteryhookup.com/pages/customer-projects

It is not hard to datalog a 200A load continuous with congruent temperature data. Flir cam is 1000$, datalogger from Grin is 300$, boom, data. Volume of water in a bucket, a thermometer.. and a resistor load... Count the BTu produced easily from any certain discharge. Have it on a log. Get out that old Extech thermocouple datalogger, Old man. I guess it is not very profitable to do this. Load testing.

BH only says what the datasheet Grade A rating was - NOT - as a salvaged DIY application.

I have no plans yet to even push 100 Amps through something like a Grintech controller, so even that would be perfectly fine for my (current) needs. I ABOLSUTELY need to be spot-welding 18650s and playing around with making smaller packs

That was what i was hoping to get across ... that those 2p 16Ah pouch cells are more powerful (mismatch) then CS needs for his e-bike application. Wasn't that what DD was also attempting to say in a round-about manner of speaking :wink:

It's not that those 2p 16Ah cells don't have a suitable application, but IMO not for CSs use. What DD was saying in so many words (reading between the lines :wink: ). He wasn't so much bad-mouthing Battery Hookup as much as having empathy for the "hobbyists" that are an easy mark (quote by P. T. Barnum).

Another thing to consider is the potential danger of a "lhobbyist" working with powerful EV pouch cells that could burn down a house if mishandled

I ABOLSUTELY need to be spot-welding 18650s and playing around with making smaller packs

You come across as a "hobbyist" when you use words like "playing around" :wink:

Lishen 2170 less expensive (more bang for $) than Samsung 25Rs. Check prices in quantity you need at Battery Store ... https://www.18650batterystore.com/collections/18650-batteries/products/samsung-25r-18650

Besides price what's an advantage buying either Lishen 2170SA 4000mAh 12A (12s3p 135$) or Lishen 2170LA 4000mAh 35A (12s3p 202$) ... instead of say 1865 Samsung 25R 2500mAh 20A (12s4p 213$) or 1865 Molicel P28A 2800mAh 35A (12s4p 255$).

 

[eMark]

This UPP battery ... https://www.amazon.com/Battery-Lithium-Electric-Bicycles-Motorcycle/dp/B095JN8822/ref=sr_1_2_sspa?crid=2CPR4C9Z2BY8J&keywords=unit+pack+power+48v+battery&qid=1653223430&sprefix=unit+pack%2Caps%2C620&sr=8-2-spons&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUEyRkZLSFBRVTFFREZMJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwNDQzMjQ5MVRLWUJBS0hQQktVUiZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwNTg5NDI1MTBCVlBHOEVEVkRTMSZ3aWRnZXROYW1lPXNwX2F0ZiZhY3Rpb249Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU= ... 13s4p $179 (including 3A charger).

In the short/long run it likely may prove to be less expensive and less hassle than a 1st DIY spot-welded build (& better ?). That way you wouldn't need to buy a spot-welder although you wouldn't learn as much and have as much fun - :wink:

Plus you don't have to toil makng your own custom-fit water-tight enclosure. Then over the next year you'll have your e-bike fine-tuned. You can decide if you really want to build your own battery pack and what cells to use ... BEST OF THE BEST GOING FORWARD :thumb: - :thumb: - :thumb:

 

[CONSIDERABLE SHOUTING]

This UPP battery ... https://www.amazon.com/Battery-Lithium-Electric-Bicycles-Motorcycle/dp/B095JN8822/ref=sr_1_2_sspa?crid=2CPR4C9Z2BY8J&keywords=unit+pack+power+48v+battery&qid=1653223430&sprefix=unit+pack%2Caps%2C620&sr=8-2-spons&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUEyRkZLSFBRVTFFREZMJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwNDQzMjQ5MVRLWUJBS0hQQktVUiZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwNTg5NDI1MTBCVlBHOEVEVkRTMSZ3aWRnZXROYW1lPXNwX2F0ZiZhY3Rpb249Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU= ... 13s4p $179 (including 3A charger).

In the short/long run it likely may prove to be less expensive and less hassle than a 1st DIY spot-welded build (& better ?). That way you wouldn't need to buy a spot-welder although you wouldn't learn as much and have as much fun - :wink:

Plus you don't have to toil makng your own custom-fit water-tight enclosure. Then over the next year you'll have your e-bike fine-tuned. You can decide if you really want to build your own battery pack and what cells to use ... BEST OF THE BEST GOING FORWARD :thumb: - :thumb: - :thumb:

I actually already have the spot welder :lol: Really two, only because I got lucky at my Amazon reseller and found it for $4.
I've considered going with a prebuilt pack, but I've heard poor things about Unit Pack Power- at least that they tend to be a little on the low-quality side. I've already got all the parts to make the batteries, I've just got that healthy fear and haven't jumped in yet.

Nothing wrong with that as long as the buyer realizes capacity between salvaged cells will vary so pre-testing is mandatory. Will i ever buy cells from BH ... doubtful ... other than as an experimental learning experience (if nothing else to do) that i don't envison at this time.

How would you pre-test them? I have an Opus 3100 but obviously, I'd have to do some "interesting" things with some kind of blank and wire terminal connections to even connect it to the meter, let alone do a capacity test :lol: I don't think the LCD screen physically has the digits to show that!

That was what i was hoping to get across ... that those 2p 16Ah pouch cells are more powerful (mismatch) then CS needs for his e-bike application. Wasn't that what DD was also attempting to say in a round-about manner of speaking :wink:

It's not that those 2p 16Ah cells don't have a suitable application, but IMO not for CSs use. What DD was saying in so many words (reading between the lines :wink: ). He wasn't so much bad-mouthing Battery Hookup as much as having empathy for the "hobbyists" that are an easy mark (quote by P. T. Barnum).

Another thing to consider is the potential danger of a "lhobbyist" working with powerful EV pouch cells that could burn down a house if mishandled

Yeah, these things really are overbuilt for my applications- but they'd be easily boxed and worked with, with only soldering wires for charge/discharge plugs instead of spot welding cells to strips. Do you think these are a little much for a newbie? I've only just now been looking at how others have assembled them, because I never EVER considered pouch cells before now.

Lishen 2170 less expensive (more bang for $) than Samsung 25Rs. Check prices in quantity you need at Battery Store ... https://www.18650batterystore.com/collections/18650-batteries/products/samsung-25r-18650

Besides price what's an advantage buying either Lishen 2170SA 4000mAh 12A (12s3p 135$) or Lishen 2170LA 4000mAh 35A (12s3p 202$) ... instead of say 1865 Samsung 25R 2500mAh 20A (12s4p 213$) or 1865 Molicel P28A 2800mAh 35A (12s4p 255$).

It would really come down to shipping costs, and packaging limitations of the cells used. Also that I didn't know battery store existed.

 

[eMark]

My UPP is on its 3rd year with no problems. Charge to 85% capacity with LVC no lower than 20% of capacity. The cells are 2500mAh 8amp as likely are the cells in that $179 13s4p 10Ah pack. Buying that UPP 13s4p 10Ah would by far be a better investment than buying that BH EV module for $170 for your particular application (IMO).

Mild-mannered UPP cells (2500mAh 8-10amp rating) will outlive the cells in my high energy dense 30Q pack (3000mAh 15A MCD). Over the past 2 yrs have replaced 12 of the 30Q "141" cells due to high self-discharge. Somewhat more typical of 30Q going on its third year of use (125 c/d cycles each year). Hopefully, i've removed all the questionable Grade ?A? cells. QC is more demanding with the manufacture of high energy dense 18650 cells and 30Q cycle life is likely shorter than the mild mannered cells in that $179 UPP - when not misused/abused.

Lishen 2170 less expensive (more bang for $) than Samsung 25Rs. Check prices in quantity you need at Battery Store ... https://www.18650batterystore.com/collections/18650-batteries/products/samsung-25r-18650

How would you pre-test them?

Being you're buying new Grade A brand name cells there's no need to do a capacity test like is necessary IF buying 100 18650 salvaged cells for 1-2$ each with hopefully enuf (good enuf) to build a half-way decent 12s or 13s 4p/5p pack. Still not as good as that UPP $179 13s4p.

Upon receiving check each cells' voltage with DMM that reads 3 decimal places ... https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07TWQ4ZSJ/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_image_o06_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 . Range no more than 3mV of happy medum (e.g. 3.397V-4.003). Just to be on the safe side you may want to buy a few extra just in case one or two exceed middle-of-the-road by more than 3mV (6-7mV range) or you accidently damage one or two during your first DIY spot-weld build.

Besides price what's an advantage buying either Lishen 2170SA 4000mAh 12A (12s3p 135$) or Lishen 2170LA 4000mAh 35A (12s3p 202$) ... instead of say 1865 Samsung 25R 2500mAh 20A (12s4p 213$) or 1865 Molicel P28A 2800mAh 35A (12s4p 255$).

It would really come down to shipping costs, and packaging limitations of the cells used. Also that I didn't know battery store existed.

Battery Store also has an American team in Hong Kong that works with Voltaplex. If you should buy from them be sure to get confirmation that the cells are ALREADY in California warehouse and not on a boat from China. If they can't confirm maybe buy from another supplier that can guarantee shipment in a few days. 25R is a popular cell so every USA Li-ion supplier should have them in stock. Maybe, you will decide to use 2170s instead of 1865s ?