Are DZM 12Ah scooter batteries worth twice the price?

[imorton]

Hi Guys, my 48v Gio scooter comes with original 48v SLA batteries that have the DZM part number on them. When I research these batteries, very little specs are found, and when I do, it's only from two chinese companies.

I wonder if these DZM style lead acid batteries are a way for chinese scooter manufacturers to try and grab the SLA battery replacement market?

Dealers up in Canada are asking @ $275 dollars for 4x 12v 12Ah DZM scooter batteries. While I can get regular SLA 12v 12Ah batteries in the USA for $100 delivered. Smells Fishy..

I do see that the regular SLA's are rated on a 20 hr rating, while the "specs" that I could find on the DZM style batteries are rated on a 2 hr rating. So in considering the Peukert Effect, the regular SLA's are rated at 7Ah for 1 hr VS the DZM giving @ 10Ah for 1hr on the DZM style batteries. (mind u, is this reliable and trust worthy specs)

I guess it all depends on your usage, so I would maybe consider $100 for 4 regular SLA's (since my distance needs are low), but I would never spend $275 for "DZM style" SLA's from Canadian scooter dealers. There is a lot of old-timers here on scooters that just keep buying these DZM batteries from the local dealer every few years, and when I mention LifePo4, they just say that $600-750 dollars is too much

The newest dealer trend here is that the are calling their replacement batteries as the "newer DZM batteries" and that they are GEL Batteries, …lollll, I thought all SLA batteries were gel filled.

For that kind of money ($275 for DZM), I would go for LifePo4 pack like a 48v 10Ah or 15Ah size.

Just my rant about the scooter dealers exaggerations … What are your thoughts… IAN.

 

[gogo]

The weight of lead batteries will tell you the potential capacity. Design/build quality and then age determine the rest, usually.

 

[999zip999]

Take the training wheels off and ditch the lead. Lead is dead.

 

[imorton]

The weight of lead batteries will tell you the potential capacity. Design/build quality and then age determine the rest, usually.

That's what I find, they all seem to weigh @ all the same…

 

[imorton]

Take the training wheels off and ditch the lead. Lead is dead.

Thanks for your quote, Lead is Dead… I wonder what is "alive in battery technology? "

Lead is what my new 2013 Gio scooter came with. It might be dead in someone's eyes, but at the moment, they have about 25 cycles on them and seem to be pushing my training wheels quite well.. loll

Now at the moment, four regular 12v 12Ah SLA's are $100 delivered, and a 48v 9Ah headway pack with charger and shipping is $400, so if I can get 200 cycles/2 years with lead, it might take a while to "undead the lead" and get a payback…

I guess we all have to evaluate our NEEDS and WANTS… I think I WANT a LifePo4 pack, but currently I have SLA's that are relatively new, so they are fulfilling my NEEDS…

Now I agree that I wouldn't pay @ $275 dollars for DZM sla batteries, I would go for a Lithium style battery.

Now about the DZM style batteries, is there any proof that they are much better?

IAN.

 

[amberwolf]

You'd have to have the manufacturer's spec sheets showing tests *at your current-draw levels*, for each battery you want to compare to each other, to know. Or buy them all and test them on your vehicle under identical conditions/rides.


As far as weight goes--it is generally correct that a heavier SLA will work better at EV-type loads than lighter ones, for the same physical size and Ah rating. This is because the lead plates are thicker and less likely to be eaten away or melt/warp under the conditions EVs will put them thru. They'll probably last more cycles at the same DoD than thinner-plate versions.

If you weigh them all and they come out the same, then most likely their performance will be very similar, unless they have something special in their electrolyte mix, or the separators used between the lead plates, or the lead alloy itself. I doubt most SLA you'll find has anything different from any other kind.

I don't remember ATM which brands I've used that worked out better than others, and it's a little hard to be sure of my results because all of mine were used when I got them. But if you want to poke around on my old http://electricle.blogspot.com blog and perhaps my early CrazyBike2 thread here on ES, there should be some information about the few brands I actually used with it before I switched to NiMH and then to LiFePO4, and then to NMC and NMC + LiCo, which I'm using right now.

 

[imorton]

You'd have to have the manufacturer's spec sheets showing tests *at your current-draw levels*, for each battery you want to compare to each other, to know. Or buy them all and test them on your vehicle under identical conditions/rides.


As far as weight goes--it is generally correct that a heavier SLA will work better at EV-type loads than lighter ones, for the same physical size and Ah rating. This is because the lead plates are thicker and less likely to be eaten away or melt/warp under the conditions EVs will put them thru. They'll probably last more cycles at the same DoD than thinner-plate versions.

If you weigh them all and they come out the same, then most likely their performance will be very similar, unless they have something special in their electrolyte mix, or the separators used between the lead plates, or the lead alloy itself. I doubt most SLA you'll find has anything different from any other kind.

I don't remember ATM which brands I've used that worked out better than others, and it's a little hard to be sure of my results because all of mine were used when I got them. But if you want to poke around on my old http://electricle.blogspot.com blog and perhaps my early CrazyBike2 thread here on ES, there should be some information about the few brands I actually used with it before I switched to NiMH and then to LiFePO4, and then to NMC and NMC + LiCo, which I'm using right now.

Thanks a million for your info, and I agree with your explanation. The heavier they are, the very likely the thicker the plates would be.

If I needed other SLA's, the $100 for a four pack of 12v 12Ah's would be what I would buy. I don't think that the DZM's are worth 2.7 times the money. Now I just have to decide whether I want to spend for a LifePo4 pack

Thanks again, IAN…

 

[dogman dan]

Lead prices are a poor way to compare lead batteries. The main thing to look for is a battery designed for an EV, then compare prices between EV type batteries. Don't forget to compare prices at your door. Shipping may vary a lot so look for sources near you.

Some do use lesser priced batteries designed for emergency lights or whatever, and it can work ok if your needs are not big range.

B&B's EV rated sla's are among the best, and they are not cheap either.

 

[imorton]

Lead prices are a poor way to compare lead batteries. The main thing to look for is a battery designed for an EV, then compare prices between EV type batteries. Don't forget to compare prices at your door. Shipping may vary a lot so look for sources near you.

Some do use lesser priced batteries designed for emergency lights or whatever, and it can work ok if your needs are not big range.

B&B's EV rated sla's are among the best, and they are not cheap either.

You're right, the B&B EV rated batteries are not cheap, so at the price, someone may as well consider transitioning to a LifePo4.

But I agree, it depends on your usage and distance needs. I had a look at my distance/days used and I see that I travel @ 10km and go through @ 6 battery cycles a month. So I guess my needs are very light

Thanks for the info… IAN.